Current school said won't train in my plane

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4RNB

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4RNB
When I first started training and looking at planes, the school owner said something about he would not train a student in student owned plane. In the next week I will be an owner of same make model and year as school plane, but with more recent avionics, all of which work! I want to continue training but do so in my plane. I think it is reasonable to learn in the plane I will fly when licensed.

Is there something insurance or liability wise that would prevent the school to train me in my plane?

Another nearby school said they will instruct for $70/hr. I've considered a finishing school or another CFI on their own. I like the people I am around, but not enough to not fly my plane.

Any thoughts? Thanks
 
They have the right to set their rules, you have the right to spend your money elsewhere. It would make the most sense to complete your training in your own plane, unless other circumstances dictate otherwise, ie: insurance, lack of instructors in your area.
 
It could be that the school makes no money when you fly your own plane and they are reluctant about their pilots moonlighting also, because they make no money off of it. Having said that, it isn't the school's business what their pilots do on their off time, unless of course they signed something that said they couldn't.
 
When I got my checkout in the Archer (privately owned) the CFI that I used, needed to make copies of the most recent annual (engine, airframe and prop) as well as a copy of the insurance policy. He also charged a premium to instruct in a non-flight school aircraft, all of which I felt was reasonable. If I was in your shoes, I’d find someone who’s willing to instruct in your airplane.
 
I think its odd. Many places will instruct you in your plane. They'll even charge a little extra.

Go back to the FBO and tell them you're gonna pay one of their instructors $40/hr cash on the side. You'll probably get as good or better instruction. In the plane you will fly. Move on.
 
Sinistar said:
I think its odd. Many places will instruct you in your plane. They'll even charge a little extra.

Go back to the FBO and tell them you're gonna pay one of their instructors $40/hr cash on the side. You'll probably get as good or better instruction. In the plane you will fly. Move on.
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Please don’t get someone fired. If they won’t do it, find someone who can without putting them in a conflict of interest.
 
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@write-stuff has a list of instructors in different areas on his website, have you checked that for potential local independents?
 
If you own your own plane, you should train in it. If your current school won't do it, find another that will. Ironically, I'm pretty sure I was the only one at my school with own plane, and pretty sure @Dave Theisen was teaching there a bit. (Superior - The Colonel). My instructor had two other students who said they were going to, but never did. Made the jump to PP and ultimately to IR much easier.
 
4RNB said:
When I first started training and looking at planes, the school owner said something about he would not train a student in student owned plane. In the next week I will be an owner of same make model and year as school plane, but with more recent avionics, all of which work! I want to continue training but do so in my plane. I think it is reasonable to learn in the plane I will fly when licensed.

Is there something insurance or liability wise that would prevent the school to train me in my plane?

Another nearby school said they will instruct for $70/hr. I've considered a finishing school or another CFI on their own. I like the people I am around, but not enough to not fly my plane.

Any thoughts? Thanks
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Once you solo, you can fly your own plane if it is the same make/model as the solo endorsement. I am currently training in the schools C150 with the instructor, but have put in tons of hours, including my cross countries, in my personal plane.
 
Let me give you the reasons I wouldn’t let CFIs at the flight school give instruction:

1. The school’s insurance does not cover non company aircraft.
2. The school’s primary profit from training is renting aircraft and profit on instructors is minimal.
3. Allocating school instructors to you reduced instructor hours available to school students.
4. The school has no direct control over maintenance of your aircraft.
5. If you are a Part 141 student, the regulations require aircraft be inspected by the FAA.
 
Ron Raty said:
Once you solo, you can fly your own plane if it is the same make/model as the solo endorsement. I am currently training in the schools C150 with the instructor, but have put in tons of hours, including my cross countries, in my personal plane.
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You can do that as long as your CFI doesn’t put a restriction in your logbook preventing it.
 
4RNB said:
When I first started training and looking at planes, the school owner said something about he would not train a student in student owned plane. In the next week I will be an owner of same make model and year as school plane, but with more recent avionics, all of which work! I want to continue training but do so in my plane. I think it is reasonable to learn in the plane I will fly when licensed.

Is there something insurance or liability wise that would prevent the school to train me in my plane?

Another nearby school said they will instruct for $70/hr. I've considered a finishing school or another CFI on their own. I like the people I am around, but not enough to not fly my plane.

Any thoughts? Thanks
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Are the instructors employees? Or are they independent contractors? If the latter, just hire them directly and bypass the school.
 
It’s not uncommon for flight schools to only instruct in their planes. The few I asked at one point citied insurance reasons.
 
I wouldn’t use a school to train in my own plane anyway. Find a good independent instructor you mesh with and work with them directly. It simplifies things and lowers your costs. This way you’re not paying for the schools overhead and going through a third party to schedule. I’d find a CFII so you can use them again later for your Instrument rating.
 
I ran into that issue when I bought mine.

They gave me an absurd rate initially for the CFI, we negotiated and worked it to about $15 extra. My insurance policy covers a CFI who is training me.
 
I was in the same boat except the school said they WOULD train me in my own plane and even gave me a price.

When I showed back up with a glass 172, they changed their tune. To be honest, it was for their own good and I get that...the fallout was it was for mine as well.

I asked around, found a retired C130 pilot, gold seal CFI, Gulfstream type rated grey beard and called him.

The call when like this:

Me: Hi Mr CFI my name is Kelvin. I get your name through the grape vine. Will you give me some instruction?

Mr. CFI: Primary or instrument

Me: Primary. I have about 8 hours in my book.

Mr. CFI: No. I don't do primary any more.

Me: Well that sucks. I got your name from only EVERY person I talked to. I even have my own plane.

Mr. CFI: (dripping with skepticism) What kind of plane do you have?

Me: A brand new glass 172.

Mr. CFI: What are you doing today about 3:00 p.m.?

Me: Well judging by the abrupt change in your attitude, I figure I am meeting you at the airport.

Mr. CFI: See you there.

Fast forward 14 years later, we share a hanger and I have 1500 hours.

Moral of the story, find the grey bearded CFI and work with him. He is out there...you just need to find him.
 
It's actually quite simple.

Do you like your current instructor? If so, ask him or her about continuing your instruction in your airplane. If they say yes, great - discuss their rate, if not, find someone who will.

The issue of whether they are "allowed" to teach you directly is their problem, not yours. It's not quite that simple for them, of course, the flight school owner could fire them if it was against school policy, or just against the owner's preferences.

The issue of "access to training facilities" is another thing, too. If the CFI isn't working for the school when training you, then (in general) the school facilities, like training rooms, computers, simulators, whiteboards, briefing rooms, etc., wouldn't be available for your use.

I've been that CFI before. I started teaching at a school, and my name got out and I started getting calls from owners. Since the school didn't find me those clients, I had no moral obligation to run any billing or anything else through the school, or even notify the school about it. Now, I was a part-time CFI at that school, and really had enough other business anyway, so I wasn't concerned about getting fired. Now, I didn't have access to any school facilities, but since the owners were hangar renters at the airport, I did have access to the "common" areas - flight planning rooms, pilot lounges, etc., which worked just as well.
 
RussR said:
It's actually quite simple.

Do you like your current instructor? If so, ask him or her about continuing your instruction in your airplane. If they say yes, great - discuss their rate, if not, find someone who will.

The issue of whether they are "allowed" to teach you directly is their problem, not yours. It's not quite that simple for them, of course, the flight school owner could fire them if it was against school policy, or just against the owner's preferences.

The issue of "access to training facilities" is another thing, too. If the CFI isn't working for the school when training you, then (in general) the school facilities, like training rooms, computers, simulators, whiteboards, briefing rooms, etc., wouldn't be available for your use.

I've been that CFI before. I started teaching at a school, and my name got out and I started getting calls from owners. Since the school didn't find me those clients, I had no moral obligation to run any billing or anything else through the school, or even notify the school about it. Now, I was a part-time CFI at that school, and really had enough other business anyway, so I wasn't concerned about getting fired. Now, I didn't have access to any school facilities, but since the owners were hangar renters at the airport, I did have access to the "common" areas - flight planning rooms, pilot lounges, etc., which worked just as well.
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This is what I'd so if I was the OP. Without knowing the school owner, it's hard to know how they'll react, but it could be happy with the arrangement if the objection to you training in your plane is purely business. And I can think of a bunch of good reasons for the school's policy.
 
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Bacho said:
I ran into that issue when I bought mine.

They gave me an absurd rate initially for the CFI, we negotiated and worked it to about $15 extra. My insurance policy covers a CFI who is training me.
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Your insurance policy covers YOU when you’re being trained by a CFI. Unless the CFI is named as an additional insured with a waiver of subrogation, they can still go after the CFI if something happens.
 
Find a new CFI, or see if your current CFI has his own insurance and see if he will work outside of the school. Where I live I don’t know of any school that prohibits their CFIs from working at other schools.
 
Several people have mentioned insurance for the CFI. To put it bluntly, that's the CFI's problem. As long as your insurance covers you as a student pilot while getting instruction (and it should), whether or not the CFI is covered or gets subrogated against is their concern, not yours. You just need to make sure that the CFI meets any requirements your insurer places on them to train you, like time in type.

Now, I do have, and highly recommend that other CFIs have CFI insurance. But that's not the client's concern.
 
RussR said:
Several people have mentioned insurance for the CFI. To put it bluntly, that's the CFI's problem.
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More than likely that’s the OP’s problem...the flight school doesn’t want to deal with the insurance issues.
 
MauleSkinner said:
More than likely that’s the OP’s problem...the flight school doesn’t want to deal with the insurance issues.
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Only if the OP is trying to keep the training through the flight school. Most people so far, including me, have recommended taking it outside of the purview of the flight school. In which case an individual CFI's insurance is not the OP's concern.
 
RussR said:
Only if the OP is trying to keep the training through the flight school. Most people so far, including me, have recommended taking it outside of the purview of the flight school. In which case an individual CFI's insurance is not the OP's concern.
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My reference was to the reason for the OP, not the result of the OP. ;)
 
Sorry, but this is such a crock. My school had tons of aircraft and also squeezed the CFI's a bit back in 2006. I told them while renting that I fully anticipated purchasing my own aircraft after PPL and would need a CFI for flight reviews AND that said plane would be using gas which THEY sold. Things loosened up fast after that ... does a school actually think someone will rent their clapped out plane for a flight review rather than the owner use his glass everything ride?
 
eman1200 said:
@write-stuff has a list of instructors in different areas on his website, have you checked that for potential local independents?
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Is that the gold Seal link on his POA profile? I did not see an instructors list. ANy help ?

OK, I found it. One person nearish, I emailed him
 
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I'm not trying to get anyone fired. I just want to fly, fly in my plane.
How do I go about finding independent CFI?
I plan to talk to folks in person more today. This isn't personal, or even really business for me, it's just I want to go flying.
Plane is same year, make, model of what I am signed off to solo within 25 miles of local airport. It has a few things I have not used before, 2 G5's, GPS, different radios, AP. If the seat track holes work (they don't go very far back) I hope to find a CFI to fly with me today.
 
There are a number of places with lists of CFIs in addition to Gold Seal. Try independent flight instructor in Google. Manufacturer and model-specific forums can help too. In terms if the local area even if CFIs in the flight school can't or won't, they usually know who can and do. If you are a Facebook user, locate a local pilot group and join it.
 
Put an request up on the FBO bulletin board.
 
All of the people that I’ve instructed that have their own planes, had to go through the flight school.
 
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