Currency questions

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

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OK, I came up with a scenario that I'm not quite sure of...

Let's say you do 3 takeoffs and 3 full-stop landings at night in a DC-3. That makes you DC-3 current, AMEL day current, AMEL night current, and tailwheel current, but not current in a C172 (because it doesn't make you ASEL current).

Now, let's say you go and do 3 touch and go's at night in a C172. That makes you ASEL day current, but not ASEL night current (because they weren't full-stop landings) even though it was at night.

Now, can you go fly a Citabria during the day? You're tailwheel current due to the DC-3 full-stop landings, and you're ASEL day current by virtue of 3 night T&G's, as silly as that seems.

§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.

(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days, and—

(i) The person acted as the sole manipulator of the flight controls; and

(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required), and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel.

(b) Night takeoff and landing experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—

(i) That person acted as sole manipulator of the flight controls; and

(ii) The required takeoffs and landings were performed in an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required).
Click to expand...

(Note: I think I know the answer, but I want to see what y'all think.)
 
My inclination is to read the reg as implying that the tailwheel aircraft must be of the same category/class/type, so your DC3 landings don't provide you tailwheel currency for your Citabria, but as for what the FAA might decide that day, I'd only be guessing.
-harry
 
I agree with Harry. It seems that the only clause of interest here, since we already agree that you have no ASEL night currency, is 61.57(a)(ii). It seems clear to me that "and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel" refers to the aircraft mentioned earlier in that clause, which is established to be "an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required)" by the use of the conjunction "and."
 
Yes, you can go fly the Citabria during the day. You never said you were taking passengers with you.

Now, assuming you want to take passengers....it does not say OR, preceeding tailwheel, it said category, class, type, AND if tailwheel....not OR if tailwheel
 
As log as you are flying solo and have a current Flight review per 61.56, it does not matter. you never said you had a passenger.
 
Staying 90 day current has always been difficult when you are flying on various types of airplanes.

I get my night currency at the simulator for 737/G-1159/LR-Jet. Since those are all Airplane (Category) Multi-Engine Land (Class) 737/G-1159/LR-Jet (Type). It also covers me for the 421 and Seneca.

However, I seem to always be day Current in the Dakota. However night currency is another story. I just don't get night current in that airplane unless i will be planning on making a night flight.
 
BillTIZ said:
As log as you are flying solo and have a current Flight review per 61.56, it does not matter. you never said you had a passenger.
Click to expand...

True - I should have specified a passenger rather than just implying it, otherwise the entire question is moot. :yes:
 
gprellwitz said:
I agree with Harry. It seems that the only clause of interest here, since we already agree that you have no ASEL night currency, is 61.57(a)(ii). It seems clear to me that "and, if the aircraft to be flown is an airplane with a tailwheel, the takeoffs and landings must have been made to a full stop in an airplane with a tailwheel" refers to the aircraft mentioned earlier in that clause, which is established to be "an aircraft of the same category, class, and type (if a type rating is required)" by the use of the conjunction "and."
Click to expand...

That's exactly how I read it... The "and" is the key. But before I looked at Part 61, I remembered tailwheel currency as something separate. Amazing what a read of the regs will do for ya. :yes:
 
mantakos said:
My inclination is to read the reg as implying that the tailwheel aircraft must be of the same category/class/type, so your DC3 landings don't provide you tailwheel currency for your Citabria, but as for what the FAA might decide that day, I'd only be guessing.
-harry
Click to expand...

I disagree - the DC3 landings wouldn't qualify you for another tailwheel airplane that requires a type rating (trying to think of one), but they would count as category and class for the Citbria.

I start by looking at the airplane I'm going to fly. Does it require a type rating? If so, I need to have gotten my currency in the same type. If it does not, then I need to have gotten current in the same category and class. If the airplane has a tailwheel, I must have gotten current in a tailwheel airplane in category and class (and type IF the airplane I'm about to fly requires a type rating).

Thus, A DC-3 makes me current in a Cub, but not the other way around.
 
TMetzinger said:
I disagree - the DC3 landings wouldn't qualify you for another tailwheel airplane that requires a type rating (trying to think of one), but they would count as category and class for the Citbria.

I start by looking at the airplane I'm going to fly. Does it require a type rating? If so, I need to have gotten my currency in the same type. If it does not, then I need to have gotten current in the same category and class. If the airplane has a tailwheel, I must have gotten current in a tailwheel airplane in category and class (and type IF the airplane I'm about to fly requires a type rating).

Thus, A DC-3 makes me current in a Cub, but not the other way around.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why you say that.

Citabria -- category: airplane; class: single engine; type: n/a
DC-3 -- category: airplane; class: multi-engine; type: DC3
So when you say "I need to have gotten current in the same category and class. I must have gotten current in a tailwheel airplane in category and class" (emphasis mine) it's failed on the class, irrespective of the type.
 
Here's another one for you.

The alternative means of compliance allows a pilot in command of a turbine-powered airplane (specifically a turbine-powered airplane that is type certificated for more than one pilot crewmember) to meet the PIC night currency requirements for all the applicable airplane types on the PIC’s certificate as long as the following provisions are met:

  • The pilot in command must hold at least a commercial pilot certificate with the appropriate category, class, and type rating for each airplane that is type certificated for more than one pilot crewmember that the pilot seeks to operate under this alternative;
  • That pilot must have logged at least 1,500 hours of aeronautical experience as a pilot;
  • In each airplane that is type certificated for more than one pilot crewmember that the pilot seeks to operate under this alternative, that pilot must have accomplished and logged the daytime takeoff and landing recent flight experience of 61.57(a), as the sole manipulator of the flight controls;
  • Within the preceding 90 days prior to the operation of that airplane that is type certificated for more than one pilot crewmember, the pilot must have accomplished and logged at least 15 hours of flight time in the type of airplane that the pilot seeks to operate under this alternative; and
  • The pilot has:

    a. Accomplished and logged at least 3 takeoffs and 3 landings to a full stop, as the sole manipulator of the flight controls, in a turbine-powered airplane that requires more than one pilot crewmember. The pilot must have performed the takeoffs and landings during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise within the preceding 6 months prior to the month of the flight; or

    b. Within the preceding 12 months prior to the month of the flight, the pilot must have completed a training program that is approved under 14 CFR Part 142. The approved training program must have required and the pilot must have performed, at least 6 takeoffs and 6 landings to a full stop as the sole manipulator of the controls in a flight simulator that is representative of a turbine-powered airplane that requires more than one pilot crewmember. The flight simulator's visual system must have been adjusted to represent the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise.
SUMMARY: This final rule establishes an
alternative means of compliance for the
pilot-in-command (PIC) night takeoff
and landing recent flight experience
requirements. A pilot who operates
more than one type of airplane,
certificated for more than one pilot
flight crewmember, can meet the PIC
night takeoff and landing recent flight
experience requirements in one of the
types of airplanes he/she operates. The
pilot would then be considered
qualified to perform night flights in the
other types of airplanes he/she operates
as PIC.
 
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Greg Bockelman said:
That isn't really the point to these exercises. Besides, what I consider safe and right, you may consider an unacceptable risk.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and I much rather have the ones who think everything is an unnacceptable risk not in charge of writing the regulations.
 
As I read the reg, the tailwheel issue is additive to category, class, and, if required, type. Therefore, I would say that based on your three night DC-3 passes and three day C-172 passes, you are not legally currrent for a Citabria either day or night, but if you can get Rebecca McPherson to say otherwise, mighty fine. However, as Greg said, you can spend a lot of time playing ring-around-the-rosey with these regs to little practical use.
 
gprellwitz said:
I'm not sure why you say that.

Citabria -- category: airplane; class: single engine; type: n/a
DC-3 -- category: airplane; class: multi-engine; type: DC3
So when you say "I need to have gotten current in the same category and class. I must have gotten current in a tailwheel airplane in category and class" (emphasis mine) it's failed on the class, irrespective of the type.
Click to expand...
Dang it, you're right - I was focusing on tailwheel to the exclusion of class.

What I meant to say was that a DC-3 would render you current in another multiengine tailwheel airplane not requiring a type rating, like a Beech 18.

Or do people think that flying a DC-3 only gives you currency for DC-3s, and not other multiengine tailwheeel airplanes that don't require a type rating?
 
TMetzinger said:
What I meant to say was that a DC-3 would render you current in another multiengine tailwheel airplane not requiring a type rating, like a Beech 18. Or do people think that flying a DC-3 only gives you currency for DC-3s, and not other multiengine tailwheeel airplanes that don't require a type rating?
Click to expand...
No, I think you're right -- currency in a DC-3 counts for all non-type-rated TW ME airplanes as well as the DC-3. The "type" clause only says "if required." If your plane doesn't require a type rating, then you need only match category and class (TW issues notwithstanding).
 
I got about $0.81 Canadian per U.S. dollar this week.

Oh, wait...wrong type of currency:D
 
simple Solution....
Step 1. If not current in the Citabria, do 3 takeoffs and landings to a full stop at night.
Step 2. Go to the local bar, have a couple of beers, and argue how many FSDO inspectors can dance on the head of a pin :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
TMetzinger said:
Dang it, you're right - I was focusing on tailwheel to the exclusion of class.

What I meant to say was that a DC-3 would render you current in another multiengine tailwheel airplane not requiring a type rating, like a Beech 18.

Or do people think that flying a DC-3 only gives you currency for DC-3s, and not other multiengine tailwheeel airplanes that don't require a type rating?
Click to expand...

You are right. The DC-3 would cover the Beech 18. Just not the other way round. The Beech 18 doesn't cover the DC-3 because there is a Type involved.
 
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