CTLS down in Queens. One fatal :(

Condolences to the family
 
Don't those(CLTS) have a chute too?
 
Condolences to the family,the article doesn't mention any chute deployment. Could be spatial disorientation.
 
If the pilot was flying under Sport Pilot privileges he was not legal to be flying at night.
 
He had to be running the 500' class B exclusion south of JFK. Lose an engine there and you're getting wet in about :30. I had always thought if it happened to me I'd turn straight into shore and hope to land where it is shallow as possible. Not a lot of good options.

I'm surprised he wasn't on flight following, being he was on a fairly long flight (Philly to NH). I'm just guessing because the article reported some confusion of whether a plane was down at all. Maybe he was talking to ATC. If he was, he would have been talking to Kennedy tower at that point, and if he had a problem I expect he would call out at least one mayday.
 
Very sad. Thoughts go out to their family.
 
EppyGA said:
If the pilot was flying under Sport Pilot privileges he was not legal to be flying at night.
Click to expand...

The CTLS is equipped for night flight. He would have been legal if he was Private or higher with a medical.
 
I was out last night flying from the Philly area to the Jersey Shore through McGuire airspace. When we departed, the fog was just rolling in. Tower called 10 miles vis to 4 miles and finally down to 1/4 mile within 10 minutes.

Winds were calm, but the fog was really bad last night. We almost had to shoot an ILS at another field because of the visibility.

My point being, this could have played a major roll in the accident.

Very sad.
 
Bird Man said:
I was out last night flying from the Philly area to the Jersey Shore through McGuire airspace. When we departed, the fog was just rolling in. Tower called 10 miles vis to 4 miles and finally down to 1/4 mile within 10 minutes.

Winds were calm, but the fog was really bad last night. We almost had to shoot an ILS at another field because of the visibility.

My point being, this could have played a major roll in the accident.

Very sad.
Click to expand...

Up near Caldwell the visibility couldn't have been more than 1/8th of a mile. Driving home I could barely see ahead of me.
 
I agree. The drive home was unbelievable. When I checked the METAR when I got home our local was 3/16th vis. It came out of nowhere and quick.

Maciej said:
Up near Caldwell the visibility couldn't have been more than 1/8th of a mile. Driving home I could barely see ahead of me.
Click to expand...
 
DJTorrente said:
He had to be running the 500' class B exclusion south of JFK. Lose an engine there and you're getting wet in about :30. I had always thought if it happened to me I'd turn straight into shore and hope to land where it is shallow as possible. Not a lot of good options..
Click to expand...
If he was flying under the bravo, he would be right along the beach, but they searched 1.5 miles off shore. I've thought about what I would do if I lost an engine. Even at 400 feet, I'd have time to land on the beach or maybe even the first road next to the beach, if there were no power lines, etc.

I'm watching the news and locals are saying that he was flying over the neighborhood, not along the shore. That neighborhood is the southwestern borber of Kennedy bravo. Seems like he was going out to sea. Like somebody mentioned, spatial disorientation seems more and more likely.
 
Was he spinning at the end???

Wed 07:00:19 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 38° Northeast 11 13 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:00:39 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 75° East 8 9 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:00:59 PM 40.0839 -75.0166 270° West 5 6 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:01:20 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 97° East
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Was he spinning at the end???

Wed 07:00:19 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 38° Northeast 11 13 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:00:39 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 75° East 8 9 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:00:59 PM 40.0839 -75.0166 270° West 5 6 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:01:20 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 97° East
Click to expand...

FlightAware shouldn't be able to detect spinning that I'm aware of, since it doesn't know your heading (only your ground course). The numbers you posted are actually from the start of the flight when he was maneuvering on the ground.

That said, the numbers during the final descent suggest a turn from NE to SE as he descended into the water. Very sad.
 
1000 MSL flight, at night, over open water, in a VFR-only light single, possibly marginal visibility...

The pilot seems to have stacked the deck against himself.
 
bullwinkle said:
1000 MSL flight, at night, over open water, in a VFR-only light single, possibly marginal visibility...

The pilot seems to have stacked the deck against himself.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think about that route as a backup plan but decided at night it would be crazy. The 500 ft floor of ny bravo is too close to the ground at night.


What altitude can you pull the chute at in a ctls?
 
I've used that route exactly once. It was during the day. Low clouds with icing forced me to stay VFR.
I opted to go low over the water and weave my way through the C airspaces on Long Island.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Was he spinning at the end???

Wed 07:00:19 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 38° Northeast 11 13 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:00:39 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 75° East 8 9 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:00:59 PM 40.0839 -75.0166 270° West 5 6 Level FlightAware ADS-B (KPNE)
Wed 07:01:20 PM 40.0839 -75.0165 97° East
Click to expand...

That would be the slowest spin in the history of aviation. If I had to guess he lost power with no good looking options in front of him, circled around didn't see crap there, so he headed for the shallows in a protected cove which was probably the best option there is right there. He was probably too low to pull the chute by the time he got inshore.

I'd be interested to know if he had a life jacket onboard.

EDIT: Huh, just looked at those radar tracks and the plane went in somewhere completely different from the picture I saw in some report.:dunno: I'm pretty sure he need to be <500' there, but it's been a while.
 
Last edited:
AdamB said:
I've used that route exactly once. It was during the day. Low clouds with icing forced me to stay VFR.
I opted to go low over the water and weave my way through the C airspaces on Long Island.
Click to expand...

Yeah, typical for any coastal region really which is why I prefer twins. I have a good time smoking alongside offshore at 25'.
 
bullwinkle said:
1000 MSL flight, at night, over open water, in a VFR-only light single, possibly marginal visibility...

The pilot seems to have stacked the deck against himself.
Click to expand...

It happens frequently, vast majority of the time you get away with it, you just have to be prepared to not. Everybody dies, airplane crash ain't a bad way to go.
 
Bird Man said:
I was out last night flying from the Philly area to the Jersey Shore through McGuire airspace. When we departed, the fog was just rolling in. Tower called 10 miles vis to 4 miles and finally down to 1/4 mile within 10 minutes.

Winds were calm, but the fog was really bad last night. We almost had to shoot an ILS at another field because of the visibility.

My point being, this could have played a major roll in the accident.

Very sad.
Click to expand...

Probably did.
I live east of JFK and I left for work at 4am. My drive takes me right past the airport. I'm usually 65mph on the Belt Parkway this time of morning due to the light traffic. Not today. The fog was so thick, I was forced to drive closer to the speed limit of 50, lol.

I have also flown that route below the Bravo (<500), several times, but never at night. I have flown below Bravo at 1400 at night, returning to FRG from the Jersey shore. Couldn't get a Bravo clearance that night.

It was a clear, moonlit night and I was wearing a vest, but I wasn't too comfortable thinking about a possible engine failure.:eek:
 
Last edited:
Mike5250 said:
Agreed. I think about that route as a backup plan but decided at night it would be crazy. The 500 ft floor of ny bravo is too close to the ground at night.


What altitude can you pull the chute at in a ctls?
Click to expand...

The factory says 400AGL, but that seems to be a lawyer-derived number. There have been successful deployments as low as 60 feet. I would not hesitate to pull the handle at any altitude if I thought I needed it.
 
Henning said:
It happens frequently, vast majority of the time you get away with it, you just have to be prepared to not. Everybody dies, airplane crash ain't a bad way to go.
Click to expand...

Disoriented and terrified is not my preferred exit, though it is fast I guess.
 
bullwinkle said:
Disoriented and terrified is not my preferred exit, though it is fast I guess.
Click to expand...

when the time comes give me a call and I'll help you out.

what are friends for? :wink2:

*just trying to lighten the somber mood a little*
 
Gerhardt said:
when the time comes give me a call and I'll help you out.

what are friends for? :wink2:

*just trying to lighten the somber mood a little*
Click to expand...

Old joke - "I want to die the way my grandfather did, slipping away peacefully in his sleep - not screaming in panic the way his passengers did."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top