CTAF procedures

Captain

Captain

Final Approach
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
8,006
Location
NOYB
Display Name
Display name:
First Officer
Flying with a guy I've never flown with before. We go to a couple uncontrolled fields with him on the radio and he keeps leaving off the field name at the end of the transmissions. Like, "Brown Field traffic, Piaggio 164 ten miles to the North, straight in runway 18". To which at the end I'd say "Brown Field" on the intercomm, hoping he'd get the point.

That happened on two airports where we were the only plane for miles. Then we go to GAI with a pattern full and he does it again. This time I ask him to say the field name at the end and he takes offense...pointing out how I didn't use our call sign on a transmission at some prior time. Said I was 'nit picking'.

I mention this here because I know how you all feel about it. There could be pages and pages about how the AIM says how to do it and why its important. Mostly I just wanted to show what I'm dealing with out there. People here blast me for what I do but I'm telling you, I'm the guy who is here and who tries to be correct and compliant. Professional pilots by and large not so much. Most guys show up, do their job and go home.

I'm not sure what I could have done different or better but I thought a bit about this forum when I was insisting he stop screwing up the CTAF procedures. Thanks PoA for that...
 
Ten out for a straight in? A testament to always being vigilant in the pattern, especially before turning final. He may have mis-tuned his radio, too.
 
But really you're the guy who didn't add the field name at the end of the transmission and someone else called you on it. :rofl:
 
LDJones said:
Ten out for a straight in? A testament to always being vigilant in the pattern, especially before turning final. He may have mis-tuned his radio, too.
Click to expand...

I typically call ten out. That's about the time I have the field in sight and cancel with ATC. I'm doing 250 at this point so that's just over 4 miles a minute...so I'm just over 2 minutes out. Good time to start working myself into the flow.
 
AIM is pretty clear on the point. Say the intended recipient at the end of the transmission in case it was missed at the beginning.
 
I can't say, but I was hanging out at an uncontrolled airport this weekend and heard the CTAF calls including the airport name at the end. basically, lesson learned for me, I hadn't heard that before.
 
AIM reccomended or not, it is an important thing to do in the interest of safety-especially if you're in an area with multiple uncontrolled fields in close proximity that share CTAF freqs.
 
We have several fields that share the same frequency. Without the AP name you would not know where anybody was landing or taking off from.
 
It is important to say the name at the end. If someone was to miss the first part of the transmission it allows them to know where that plane is at.

In my area there are two main frequencies 122.7 and 122.8 that allows me to hear one particular airport that is over 90 miles away and many others closer. Some of them even have the same runway configuration as my home airport.

It is important to safety in my opinion and is just good common sense.
 
lmars said:
It is important to safety in my opinion and is just good common sense.
Click to expand...


Not to mention being recommended in the AIM (4-1-9):

To help identify one airport from another, the airport name should be spoken at the beginning and end of each self-announce transmission.
Click to expand...
 
My instructor doesn't repeat the airport at the end of his transmissions at non-towered airports, but I have been since I watched so many videos saying I should. I can totally see the point in that too. Maybe its because I am a student, but I find it sometimes difficult to catch the airport name from some guys on the radio where it seems like 50% of them are mumbling :)

Another thing that bugs me is when other pilots will come on the radio and say things like "Cessna 1234A, In the (airport name) area" or "(airport name) Cessna 1234A, 10 miles out". Well how the heck is that supposed that help me?? or even help his own safety?? Where in the area? 10 miles out in what direction? What alt? give me something. :)
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
How about, "departing the active" or "clear of the active." I shake my head... :dunno:
Click to expand...

I guess I don't have a huge issue with "clear of the active"...I at least know I don't have to be scanning the runway for wreckage.
 
Captain said:
...People here blast me for what I do but I'm telling you, I'm the guy who is here and who tries to be correct and compliant...
Click to expand...

My observation is that the only thing one has to do to get blasted on a pilot forum is to express an opinion. I try not to take it personally. :)
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
How about, "departing the active" or "clear of the active." I shake my head... :dunno:
Click to expand...

Are you shaking your head at people saying that, or are you shaking your head at people leaving it out? Or is it the terminology that's bothering you?

In any case, when taking the runway, it's not always easy to see whether the other end of a mile long runway is clear, so I consider that useful information.
 
"Twin Oaks traffic" (who am I speaking to)
"Cherokee (type of my aircraft for recognition and general speed info)
six tree niner mike romeo" (who I am)
"five miles west" (where I am now)
"three thousand descending, inbound for a forty-five left downwind, zero-two" (what I am doing -- direction and path)
"Twin Oaks" (where I am doing it)

That's the way I think of it, anyhow. Doesn't matter if it's an airport, practice area, flying around a mountain with special radio instructions, or whatever. Same format: Who I'm calling, who I am, where I am, what I am doing, where I am doing it.

I wish experimental pilots would call out their type more often than they tend to. I live and fly in the RV capitol of the world, and there's a big difference in pattern speed between a RV4 and a little experimental powered kite, so hearing a type helps a lot at times.
 
Captain said:
... and he keeps leaving off the field name at the end of the transmissions.
Click to expand...

I'm still just learning (two XCs under my belt), but I ran across this AOPA publication re best practices on traffic patterns and related communications at Non-Towered Airports and it seems pretty good:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/sa08.pdf

On p.5, it says

"Nontowered communication is not always easy... It's not unusual for several airports within radio range to share the same CTAF. Make sure to state the airport name at the beginning and end of each transmission for the sake of both clarity and safety."

The other day I was learning to operate at a non-towered airport and had my hands full. In the busy LA area, I heard lots of position reports and, if I missed the start, it was always helpful to hear the airport ID at the end too so I knew for sure that I should mentally process the call or could simply ignore the call.
 
Last edited:
From the same page in that AOPA publication, I thought this was a good tip too as I kept stumbling through my full call sign the other day because I was taught to initiate communications with ATC that way:

2. Be Brief

It’s more important for pilots to know what kind of
airplane you’re flying than to know your complete
call sign. Knowing the model of airplane will help
other pilots plan their pattern flight relative to you.
The abbreviated version of your call sign takes up
less of valuable air time. It’s also easier for other
pilots to remember a short call sign if they need to
request an update on your position.
 
The one that gets me is "Last Call" on departures. I always feel like saying "Promise?" in response.
 
flyingron said:
The one that gets me is "Last Call" on departures. I always feel like saying "Promise?" in response.
Click to expand...

I've never heard that one...pretty funny.

I think I'd have to order a scotch on the rocks in response.
 
I always am also tempted to throw in an Aussie style introduction "All stations and Brown Field Traffic, Navion 5327K entering on the midfield Runway 5"
 
LDJones said:
I guess I don't have a huge issue with "clear of the active"...I at least know I don't have to be scanning the runway for wreckage.
Click to expand...

Which one is the active? My home base has four possible choices. They are all active.

Palmpilot said:
Are you shaking your head at people saying that, or are you shaking your head at people leaving it out? Or is it the terminology that's bothering you?

In any case, when taking the runway, it's not always easy to see whether the other end of a mile long runway is clear, so I consider that useful information.
Click to expand...

Shaking my head at people that say that and don't specify which runway. Under calm wind conditions, multiple runways are often in use.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Shaking my head at people that say that and don't specify which runway. Under calm wind conditions, multiple runways are often in use.
Click to expand...
I usually say "clear of all runways" which seems to me would leave the least chance for misinterpretation.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Which one is the active? My home base has four possible choices. They are all active.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't care as long as I know they're off whatever runway they were on. If the say, "Clear of runway 30" so much the better.
 
I usually just call "Cessna 123 clear of the runway" if there is someone waiting to take off or someone else in the pattern - it's a way of saying "i'm out of the way". I don't get that fussed if someone calls the runway "the active".

On the original topic, I have to admit that I probably leave the station off the end of the call more frequently than not. Thats probably because I learned at a busy uncontrolled field that doesn't share a frequency with anyone else in the surrounding 100 miles, so brevity is more valued than redundancy.
 
"Aaaaaaand BFE traffic, Cessna XXX is..."

Aaaaaand don't make an indignant radio call as you depart the pattern (with nobody else in it) that runway XX is "in-use" when you hear someone else make a departure or landing call for the opposite runway. ;)
 
RoscoeT said:
"Aaaaaaand BFE traffic, Cessna XXX is..."

Aaaaaand don't make an indignant radio call as you depart the pattern (with nobody else in it) that runway XX is "in-use" when you hear someone else make a departure or landing call for the opposite runway. ;)
Click to expand...

Unless the aircraft in question is landing with a strong tailwind....closing the runway due to an overrun does no one any favors.
 
MAKG1 said:
Unless the aircraft in question is landing with a strong tailwind....closing the runway due to an overrun does no one any favors.
Click to expand...

I'm talking negligible wind and how some feel that just because a runway has been "in-use" for most of the day, that it somehow continues to be, even when the wind has died and nobody else is in the pattern. And I'm not going to attempt to dispense advice over the radio to people who, based on their ability to obtain a medical certificate, have the ability to look at the windsock.
 
I get a kick out of people who say "Taking runway 11, east departure." I always want to remind them to bring it back, because I'd like to use it too.
 
RoscoeT said:
And I'm not going to attempt to dispense advice over the radio to people who, based on their ability to obtain a medical certificate, have the ability to look at the windsock.
Click to expand...

If it only affected the aircraft in question, I'd agree with you (to a point -- we all make mistakes, just hopefully not that bad). But there are innocent third parties.

Some airports have one-way landings due to obstructions, grade, or terrain. We're supposed to get "all available information" about the flight, which would include that, but would you really just let someone get hurt due to a screw up like that?

And not every airport has a windsock.
 
MAKG1 said:
Unless the aircraft in question is landing with a strong tailwind....closing the runway due to an overrun does no one any favors.
Click to expand...

In that case, I might make an unsolicited pirep on the CTAF that "The wind sock appears to be strongly favoring runway xx." That gives the needed information without sounding presumptuous.

I once lined up on a runway with a tailwind in a fairly confined mountain valley, but fortunately I saw my error while there was still time to do a go around. I certainly would not have minded hearing such a pirep.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
From the same page in that AOPA publication, I thought this was a good tip too as I kept stumbling through my full call sign the other day because I was taught to initiate communications with ATC that way:

2. Be Brief

It’s more important for pilots to know what kind of
airplane you’re flying than to know your complete
call sign. Knowing the model of airplane will help
other pilots plan their pattern flight relative to you.
The abbreviated version of your call sign takes up
less of valuable air time. It’s also easier for other
pilots to remember a short call sign if they need to
request an update on your position.
Click to expand...

I often do it this way. Including at least an abbreviated call sign along with the type can be helpful because there are a LOT of Cessnas and Cherokees out there.

Some people just say the color along with the type, but depending on the paint scheme, that may not be too helpful if it's one of the many airplanes with white as the base color, because the secondary color may not be easy to see from another aircraft.
 
If I land somewhere there's only one runway, I'll use "clear of the runway". If there's more than one I'll say, "Clear of runway xx". Don't think I've ever said, "Clear of the active".

Where I usually fly there are a lot of small airports on the same CTAF, and depending on weather conditions you might hear calls for all of them. It becomes important to be very clear about which one you're at, so I (and most people) announce the airport at the beginning and end. Some don't, and you're occasionally left guessing. I'm still a pretty low-time guy, so maybe I'm just a little slower than some - but I really appreciate people being clear about where they're at so I don't get in the way.

And I always say "Cessna 501" but have thought about changing that to "Skyhawk 501". There's a big difference between my little 172 and, say, a 210 or a twin.
 
I've recently gotten in the habit of using the more specific model name. NorCal Approach doesn't like to hear "Cessna," and I got asked a few times if I was flying a 172 or a Citation.

There is a bit of difference between a Skyhawk and a Skylane or Cardinal, especially at high altitude. There is a lot of difference to a Citation. And all are Cessnas.
 
Another reason to say what runway you're clear of is that it lets other people know what the active runway is. Not a huge reason, of course, but it can save a call or two on a busy frequency.
 
That tells them what runway you used. There is no "active" at a nontowered airport.

The decision should be made by each pilot. It is not necessarily the same for all.

For instance, the "calm wind runway" at KWVI is 20. But 20 has a displaced threshold, so if runway length is an issue (as it often is for jets), you land on 02 to maximize it.
 
I usually say "clear 17' or "Clear "35" or whichever runway I used. It is helpful to let (especially) someone taking off that you are no longer a factor and not planning a stop and go or something like that. Just my $0.02 worth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top