Crossing runways to get self service fuel - do I need the ATIS?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
I am over at KDVT (Deer Valley) now and it is a bit more complicated than where I used to fly where there was literally 2 main taxiways, Alpha, and Bravo.

Anyways, my plane is in a covered tie down on the south side of the airport for now (until we get a hangar hopefully on the north end), but the self service fuel is on the north ramp. So last weekend I just called up ground and said, "Deer Valley Ground, Cherokee 101RM at Romeo 3 need to taxi to north ramp with Alpha" (or whatever the ATIS was at that point).

Do I even need to tell them I have the ATIS if I am just taxing to the north ramp for fuel?
 
Sometimes there are taxiway closures on ATIS(I think), so it couldn't hurt. ??
 
Can't hurt. I've always just said, "Ground, Cessna 12345, *current location*, re-position to XXXXXXX."
 
Okay cool thanks guys...takes half a second to say I have the ATIS anyways.
 
I'd get the ATIS for sure, but for ground repositioning I'd only say what Jordane93 said above, omitting the ATIS. If there is anything relevant that Ground thinks I should be aware of, they'll let me know (along with other instructions).
 
I always thought saying "with (atis)" is telling ground your intention is to taxi to takeoff takeoff.

For example at my home drone my initial call to ground goes "Skylane 12345 at the west ramp ready to taxi w/ foxtrot."

As others said doesn't hurt to get the ATIS but I wouldn't report it as it's not a requirement to have it when taxing around the airport.
 
I would atleast listen to the information. Chances are they won't ask you if you're just relocating on the field, but if they do ask you'll have it.
 
I never listen to the ATIS when I taxi within the airport but after reading some of the comments, sounds like it might be a good idea just to listen to it and review any notams announced. Other than that, I doubt any controller is going to expect you to confirm you have the atis, because the intent of your initial taxi request is not for flight.
 
neilw2 said:
I always thought saying "with (atis)" is telling ground your intention is to taxi to takeoff takeoff.
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Saying "with (atis)" is telling ground that you listened to the atis.
 
Do I, yeah, but I got time to kill, I don't like throttling up till I got over 200F CHTs.

For a turbine or a ground vehicle or something, meh, maybe, maybe not, doesn't hurt to get it but it's not really a big deal if you don't, you know none of the ground support trucks or FBO buggies are likley picking up the ATIS before they move about.
 
Hmm. Never thought about that before. I think I'm the get the ATIS crowd. I'd probably skip it at a familiar airport where I already knew what was closed and what wasn't. DVT is home to you now, you'll find out soon enough what's the best thang to do. I was in Phoenix for a month a couple years ago and flew out of DVT a few times. They take puttin around on the taxiways and crossin runways and stuff kinda seriously there. Towers got a phone number, call em and let us know what you find out.
 
RotorDude said:
If there is anything relevant that Ground thinks I should be aware of, they'll let me know (along with other instructions).
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...ummmm, isn't that the whole point of the ATIS information broadcast?

If you know your home drone and there is never anything other than the basic numbers...sure...may not need it...but I always have listened and added "with [atis]" when crossing into the movement area as I have been to a LOT of airports that do indeed broadcast important ground information and instructions on ATIS.
 
Shawn said:
...ummmm, isn't that the whole point of the ATIS information broadcast?
If you know your home drone and there is never anything other than the basic numbers...sure...may not need it...but I always have listened and added "with [atis]" when crossing into the movement area as I have been to a LOT of airports that do indeed broadcast important ground information and instructions on ATIS.
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Sure, you do want to be familiar with all pertinent info, which is why I said I always get the ATIS before calling ATC. But the question here is whether to explicitly tell ATC about it, given that airtime is precious and extraneous information distracting. So my rule (for ground repositioning) is to have the ATIS in my head, but only tell ATC I am requesting taxi from A to B, in the shortest possible transmission. If they feel there is something of relevance in the ATIS for my repositioning, they'd let me know in the taxi instructions they issue.
This is my own personal rule based on common sense and many years of experience. Perhaps ATC people here would want to chime in.
BTW, whatever is the policy for this, logically it would have to apply to airport vehicles too, and I can't say I have ever heard a vehicle mention the ATIS as part of a movement request.
 
I'm with ya and in agreement..just though that part of you statement was funny!
 
There is always at least one controller with just enough of a sense of humor to let you taxi across the field to the inop selfserve because you were too lazy to get the ATIS. With all the construction and constant change at DVT, I would definatly check notams and get ATIS before doing anything.


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Melting said:
There is always at least one controller with just enough of a sense of humor to let you taxi across the field to the inop selfserve because you were too lazy to get the ATIS.
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A sense of humor would be for the controller to make the pilot confiem they had ATIS on the way BACK to the hangar!
 
For the record, the OP didn't ask if he should LISTEN to ATIS, he asked if he should report that he has it.

Anyways, I was at north myrtle one time and called up ground to tell them I was taxiing to self serve. The guy sounded surprised and said something to the effect of "ramp at ur discretion" but i think the difference there is I weren't crossin' no runways, I reckon.
 
eman1200 said:
For the record, the OP didn't ask if he should LISTEN to ATIS, he asked if he should report that he has it.

Anyways, I was at north myrtle one time and called up ground to tell them I was taxiing to self serve. The guy sounded surprised and said something to the effect of "ramp at ur discretion" but i think the difference there is I weren't crossin' no runways, I reckon.
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Yup. Don't need to talk to anyone at all if you aren't entering a movement area. I can get from my hangar to the SS at APA via the ramp if I want to play "dodge the expensive jets" but it's kinda dumb, so I always ask to taxi down Alpha.
 
denverpilot said:
Yup. Don't need to talk to anyone at all if you aren't entering a movement area. I can get from my hangar to the SS at APA via the ramp if I want to play "dodge the expensive jets" but it's kinda dumb, so I always ask to taxi down Alpha.
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Had Ft Bragg (Simmons) ground correct me once for not calling them for repositioning on the ramp. Didn't argue over the radio or anything but I did call the tower sup when I got back. Yeah, no need to call ground unless you're penetrating a movement area.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Had Ft Bragg ground correct me once for not calling them for repositioning on the ramp. Didn't argue over the radio or anything but I did call the tower sup when I got back. Yeah, no need to call ground unless you're penetrating a movement area.
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I could see Mil airports or shared use ones being more touchy about it...
 
I used to get the atis when I was towing an aircraft on the movement area. Just because I thought it was funny to tell ground "yyy ground xxx tug, aircraft in tow request reposition to zzz ramp with information delta". Because I'm funny like that.
 
Listening to ATIS (or AWOS) before surface movement is smart. But ATIS is intended to reduce controller workload and radio traffic because tower is required to ensure landing and departing aircraft have winds and wx. If you're not landing or departing, they don't need to verify you have the numbers...and it's just a tiny bit of additional workload/traffic when you confirm it.

So unnecessary and ever-so-slightly counterproductive, but in the great scheme of things I think it really doesn't matter.
 
If you're going into the movement area, you should listen to the ATIS, and you should report that you have the ATIS information when making your request to ground. Taxiway closures, broken signs, winds...all kinds of things that might be relevant to what you wish to do, regardless of whether or not you are taking off or not. If ending your request to taxi over for fuel with the current ATIS confuses the ground controller, the ground controller needs to pay closer attention.

As to whether or not you are required to report that you have the ATIS information when requesting to reposition, I haven't the foggiest. But why not? It's not like it's a huge inconvenience to you.
 
I doubt you're ever REQUIRED to get the ATIS for anything. That being said since most airports will put closed/restricted taxiways on the ATIS, best to listen to that first even for repositioning.
 
ircphoenix said:
I tried this this morning at my airport and it didn't work. Apologize.
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I'm sure, they probably wondered why you were calling them 'Deer Valley Ground' and didn't know where the Covered parking was or the Sibran.

Bottom line: They want to know, Who you are, Where you are, What you want and Where you're going. The phrase above says it all.

I'd be interested to hear your story and ultimately if 'it didn't work', exactly what information was it that they wanted which wasn't included?

Thanks

PJ
 
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I had a similar problem at KISP, a class C airport. I called to relocate through the movement area and was told rather rudely that I needed to call Clearance first. WTH was clearance going to tell me? I asked ground again to relocate. Same response.

I stated again, with emphasis: "Please listen! I want to taxi on the ground from [FBO A] to [FBO B] and I do not intend to fly from here to there, its about 200 yards."

The response was "Oh. Taxi from A to B."

It was early in the morning. Sometimes you have to wake them up! -Skip
 
Skip Miller said:
I stated again, with emphasis: "Please listen! I want to taxi on the ground from [FBO A] to [FBO B] and I do not intend to fly from here to there, its about 200 yards."
-Skip
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That last part made me laugh out loud. I could just see you calling Clearance for a flight from FBO A to FBO B and telling them Ground would not allow you to taxi and insisted this was required.

As you say, They're usually spot on, but sometimes you have to just get their attention.

PJ
 
Skip Miller said:
I had a similar problem at KISP, a class C airport. I called to relocate through the movement area and was told rather rudely that I needed to call Clearance first. WTH was clearance going to tell me? I asked ground again to relocate. Same response.

I stated again, with emphasis: "Please listen! I want to taxi on the ground from [FBO A] to [FBO B] and I do not intend to fly from here to there, its about 200 yards."

The response was "Oh. Taxi from A to B."

It was early in the morning. Sometimes you have to wake them up! -Skip
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Hehe. I'm sure they just wanted to be sure that you were told to stay under 2000 and in contact with Departure for your taxi across the field....
 
RotorDude said:
Sure, you do want to be familiar with all pertinent info, which is why I said I always get the ATIS before calling ATC. But the question here is whether to explicitly tell ATC about it, given that airtime is precious and extraneous information distracting. So my rule (for ground repositioning) is to have the ATIS in my head, but only tell ATC I am requesting taxi from A to B, in the shortest possible transmission. If they feel there is something of relevance in the ATIS for my repositioning, they'd let me know in the taxi instructions they issue.
This is my own personal rule based on common sense and many years of experience. Perhaps ATC people here would want to chime in.
BTW, whatever is the policy for this, logically it would have to apply to airport vehicles too, and I can't say I have ever heard a vehicle mention the ATIS as part of a movement request.
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From my ATC side, I agree with what you said. From my pilot side, that is exactly what I do.
 
I always said "negative ATIS" only to have them read me the whole ATIS on the ground freq.....:rolleyes:
 
SToL said:
I'm sure, they probably wondered why you were calling them 'Deer Valley Ground' and didn't know where the Covered parking was or the Sibran.

Bottom line: They want to know, Who you are, Where you are, What you want and Where you're going. The phrase above says it all.

I'd be interested to hear your story and ultimately if 'it didn't work', exactly what information was it that they wanted which wasn't included?

Thanks

PJ
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Well I was roughly 300 miles from Deer Valley at the time... That might have something to do with it.
 
I'm a tenant at GYR and on the Phoenix airports email list. I get all kinds of notices about runway and taxiway closures at DVT. Yeah, I think it's worthwhile to get the latest scoop, even for taxiing there.
 
You need to KNOW the info in the ATIS if there is any that applies to a taxi operation such as RY or TWY closures, etc. But it is not required that you inform the controller that you have the ATIS just to taxi from one point on the airport to another, unless of course you are taxiing for departure.

Actually, even then it is not REQUIRED that you have the ATIS (per se) but the controller must ensure that the pilot has the information required to be in the ATIS. Of course, the ATIS is the best workload reducing method since it relieves the controller from having to give it to the pilot manually.

tex
 
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