Crop dusters vs drones
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Dan Thomas
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Dan Thomas
Imagine the rotor blade of that Robinson striking a drone...worse, a tail rotor...
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
According to the commentary, the drones would be at 100' and the planes at 250'. However, in each case of the video, the drone was above the plane, and the commentary mentioned that the planes aren't looking UP. If the drone was at 100' and I was at 250' I wouldn't be looking up for the target either.
hmmmmm
hmmmmm
Hank S
En-Route
Since when do crop dusters fly 250' agl? They don't even fly back to reload that high! Spraying they drag tires through the crops.
RyanShort1
Final Approach
Um, no, the camera was below the drone, which was below the crop duster... the only reason it looks higher than the plane is because of perspective.
It's important to note that 250 is potentially closer to where that crop duster is committing to the run before he dives onto the field. They drop down, apply their load, climb and turn, and repeat.
RyanShort1
Final Approach
I've seen them go pretty high on some passes - 250' is probably about the max, but for sure 150-200'ish. I watch 'em all the time on certain aerial photography jobs.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
That's a very interesting experiment. It's tough enough to see airplanes below the horizon, much less drones.
Flying_Nun
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docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Well excuse me, but the video in clear terms states that the drones will be at 100' starting at 0:38. Accompanied by a small visual aid. Next, it says clearly that the "planes flew at 250'" starting at 0:45, again with a visual aid showing the plane clearly ABOVE the drone. The moving visual aid ended at 0:50, and following that was the map.
Now if you will FF to 1:35, and ignore the image as you would like to say this is a mistake of perspective, that's fine but the printed graphic says: "Pilots aren't looking UP against the sky". Note that the image shows the drone above the plane, but as you said, this could be a matter of the drone being much closer to the camera angle, and having the appearance of being over the plane, without the fact of it being over the plane(that is not my impression, but it's your plan).
So, once more, if you can explain why a plane - flying at 250' would be looking UP as stated at 1:35 for a drone which has been defined to be at 100' I would really appreciate it. This is notwithstanding ALL the imagery showing the drone over all the aircraft in the entire feature(which you attribute to perspective).
I know what you're trying to say. The wording they used in the video is somewhat confusing.
What I believe they are trying to convey is that it is going to be harder for a pilot to see a drone while looking down at the ground from above than it is if you're a drone operator looking up at the sky from below.
Sometimes they fly higher than you think.
StinkBug
Cleared for Takeoff
You're reading it wrong. What they are saying is that while WE can see both aircraft in the video because they are against an overcast sky the pilots are not looking up against the sky and therefore have a much harder time spotting the drones. They are talking about the actual pilots in the video who are not looking at the sky like the camera on the ground is. What they are saying is entirely true, the pilots are not looking up at the sky, because the drones are below them.
Flying_Nun
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SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
The video is fairly well done and could be a good educational tool for many of the idiots who fly drones for recreation. However being idiots, they will not seek out educational material. I am more optimistic that commercial operators already know what was in the video.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
Alright, I can grok that, but then we have the video evidence of the drone appearing higher than the plane(due to perspective?). If that is the case, by some simple back of the envelope trig, if the drone is in fact below the plane, but appears above it, they would be separated laterally by several thousand feet. Frex, go to 1:05, and stop the vid. Now, if the plane appears approx 5deg above the horizon, and the drone appears approx 10deg above the horizon and we KNOW from the intro that the drone is at 100' and the plane is at 250', then the drone will be a lot closer to the camera than the plane. A lot closer, due to perspective. Where is the pilot looking? Ok, he's looking down, where he's supposed to look, but the drone is way the hell over there far to the side if the video evidence of perspective is to me believed.
Sorry, but this isn't making sense. If the drone appears above the plane due to the drone being at a closer perspective(SIN angle theta > than plane), then it would be offset significantly laterally(drone SIN angle theta < plane). Something ain't kosher with either the altitudes, or the video.
First post here, but figured I'd chime in. Got my ag endorsement some 25 years ago (ex-wife kind of drove a change in career direction right after the endorsement).
My experience was in the pre-gps era, but some of what I'm about to write likely still applies. You all are making the assessment of the video kind of complicated.
Back in the day, you'd show up and survey the field one last time -- in the pre-gps era, you were making sure you were in the right place (especially if you were self flagging), and making sure there were no new obstacles, guy wires, towers, well heads, etc. You'd do this survey at about 150'-250', looking down. I'm betting this still happens this way today.
Once you're working the field, you're kind of busy. Best chance to see these things would be during the survey. You'd be surveying the whole field, so the lateral separation issue would be addressed. Again, my experience was a long time ago, but I'm betting not much has changed.
I think the point of this video (which I thought was pretty darn good) was: Don't expect cropdusters to see your drone. If they don't, and you continue to operate your drone in their vicinity, the consequences could be dire.
--Tony
My experience was in the pre-gps era, but some of what I'm about to write likely still applies. You all are making the assessment of the video kind of complicated.
Back in the day, you'd show up and survey the field one last time -- in the pre-gps era, you were making sure you were in the right place (especially if you were self flagging), and making sure there were no new obstacles, guy wires, towers, well heads, etc. You'd do this survey at about 150'-250', looking down. I'm betting this still happens this way today.
Once you're working the field, you're kind of busy. Best chance to see these things would be during the survey. You'd be surveying the whole field, so the lateral separation issue would be addressed. Again, my experience was a long time ago, but I'm betting not much has changed.
I think the point of this video (which I thought was pretty darn good) was: Don't expect cropdusters to see your drone. If they don't, and you continue to operate your drone in their vicinity, the consequences could be dire.
--Tony
The drone was not above the plane except in the few shots where they had the plane at spray altitude. In the other shots the drone being above the plane is an illusion of perspective due to the drone being so much closer in the foreground.
StinkBug
Cleared for Takeoff
When you fly a low wing plane, and are looking "down" are you actually looking straight down through your floor? If you are, you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's quite obvious that the plane and drone were not directly above/below each other. It would have been quite impossible for the pilot to see something directly below him. The point was that he was looking down towards the ground trying to spot something at a lower altitude, not that he was looking literally straight down. Have you never gotten a traffic call for someone lower than you before? This really isn't that complicated or hard to understand and it doesn't take any math to figure out.