Critique my avionics choices.

Challenged

Pattern Altitude
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Challenged
I'd like to update the panel in my V35, currently:
  • UBG16 Engine Monitor
  • KY-97 Comm
  • KX-155 Nav/Comm
  • KNS-80 Nav/DME
  • KR-87 ADF
  • KLN-90B GPS
  • Garmin 320 Transponder
  • STEC 60-1 (single axis) autopilot
Thinking the following:
  • Avidyne IFD-540 IFR GPS
  • JPI EDM-830 Engine Monitor
  • Lynx NGT-9000 ADSB In/Out
  • PS Engineering PMA450B Audio Panel
  • Dual G5?, Aspen? Wait for Dynon?
  • Fork over for a new Nav/Comm or Keep the KX-155 or what?
 
$37-$38K installed. Might as well get another nav/com. Used KX-125 would do nicely for little more. Add another $1.5K
 
I’d rather keep the KX-155 as your second navcomm, if you weren’t buying a new second one. Keep the used radio you know over the one you don’t.

Are you getting a new autopilot?
 
You will like the Lynx. The second navcom hardly ever gets used except to check AWOS or ATIS, maybe ground, so why replace it if it works? It will never have much of a role with the GPS in the panel unless the GPS quits.

The ADF is definitely a paperweight these days. And it's getting harder to pick up baseball games on AM radio!

The Aspen is nice, but dual G5s have double the redundancy. And the price is pretty comparable. I'm tempted if and when the vac instruments fail again.
 
What’s the mission?
 
As far as auto-pilots go, the cost for the 2 axis STEC upgrade is like twice the cost of the entire Garmin GFC-500 unit, so sticking with STEC wouldn't make financial sense I don't think. I'm tempted to wait and see what happens with Dynon and maybe use their autopilot setup. The V35 is listed as approved for the Garmin GFC-500 auto-pilot, so that's an option, but not sure if that ties me to G5s or anything.
 
What’s the mission?
Looking to finish up my Instrument rating (have 95% of my hours) while I have a dual yoke installed and use the plane for family trips. We don't take weekly trips or anything, so I'm going to have to be diligent about staying proficient on my own.
 
I'd like to update the panel in my V35, currently:
  • UBG16 Engine Monitor
  • KY-97 Comm
  • KX-155 Nav/Comm
  • KNS-80 Nav/DME
  • KR-87 ADF
  • KLN-90B GPS
  • Garmin 320 Transponder
  • STEC 60-1 (single axis) autopilot
Thinking the following:
  • Avidyne IFD-540 IFR GPS
  • JPI EDM-830 Engine Monitor
  • Lynx NGT-9000 ADSB In/Out
  • PS Engineering PMA450B Audio Panel
  • Dual G5?, Aspen? Wait for Dynon?
  • Fork over for a new Nav/Comm or Keep the KX-155 or what?


Uhh.... I’m more like Garmin G500 TXi for that price.
 
Looking to finish up my Instrument rating (have 95% of my hours) while I have a dual yoke installed and use the plane for family trips. We don't take weekly trips or anything, so I'm going to have to be diligent about staying proficient on my own.

Don't underestimate the time it takes to get proficient with the new gadgets in an IMC/IFR environment. The knobology can sometimes be more problematic than the actual flying. When the magic boxes are properly configured, a trained monkey can almost fly the plane. Wouldn't trade the magic box for a bucket of VORs and ADFs though. I trained almost 30 years ago...when LORAN was a thing...the magic boxes are amazingly safer to fly with. So much info at your fingertips.
 
If you're going to spend the money to install a new engine monitor, I'd recommend upgrading to an engine monitor that can replace your primary gauges. EDM 900 or 930 or MVP-50 or CGR-30p/c .

I was just faced with this decision as well. Originally was planning to add an 830, then decided I'd like to clean up my panel so was looking at a 900. After doing more research and some convincing from Chase Larebee at Avionic Source I decided on the MVP 50. It offers so many other features that the JPI units don't, I really like being able to monitor my landing gear. EI has been great to work with during the install, they're known to have excellent customer service.
 
Well I sure like your PMA450B choice! Good news is you’ll be able to get most of its capabilities without the use of the user guide or laminate cheat sheet. 3 softkeys and a beautiful OLED screen makes set up easy peasy.

Added benefit, me! If you have any questions, I’ll do my best to answer them.

Mark
 
Thanks Mark..always nice to have direct support. I've yet to read a pilot say anything bad about the 450, so you guys should be proud of your work.
 
Just to be a contrarian here, when I was faced with the audio panel decision I went Garmin gma342/345 because I found the 3D audio to be a really cool advanced feature. Additionally it's a very simple intuitive unit, and the rest of my panel is Garmin, so might as well get the Garmin audio panel. It looks like you're trying really hard to not get any Garmin products in your lineup there, but they're pretty tough to beat. If you want an extra nav/com or com I'd recommend the gtr225 or gnc255 which is really miles ahead of any others on the market IMHO.
 
I was just faced with this decision as well. Originally was planning to add an 830, then decided I'd like to clean up my panel so was looking at a 900. After doing more research and some convincing from Chase Larebee at Avionic Source I decided on the MVP 50. It offers so many other features that the JPI units don't, I really like being able to monitor my landing gear. EI has been great to work with during the install, they're known to have excellent customer service.

I think for many of us it ends up being the panel size and how much other work is being done. In my case it was almost no other panel work(this time) so I just went with the EDM-900, the CGR pair(I'd need both to handle all my primaries) would have needed one hole enlarged, and the 930 and MVP would have required major surgery.

20181218_130049 (1)s.jpg 20180412_132558s.jpg
 
You're doing the same thing I'm doing, but I'm holding out for the Dynon STC for engine monitoring and the rest of the glass. I've already got the IFD540 and PMA450B ready to be installed and want to upgrade the second radio, but will keep my TKM MX300 Nav Com in Position 2 for the time being. Then, when the Matrix 1 comes to market, I'll simply remove the MX300 and install the Matrix 1. So here's a suggestion... Keep the KX-155 in the panel, and when the Matrix 1 comes to market (they are building one that's pin compatible with the KX-155), simply take out the KX-155 and install the Matrix 1.

upload_2018-12-30_19-6-45.jpeg

I'd like to update the panel in my V35, currently:
  • UBG16 Engine Monitor
  • KY-97 Comm
  • KX-155 Nav/Comm
  • KNS-80 Nav/DME
  • KR-87 ADF
  • KLN-90B GPS
  • Garmin 320 Transponder
  • STEC 60-1 (single axis) autopilot
Thinking the following:
  • Avidyne IFD-540 IFR GPS
  • JPI EDM-830 Engine Monitor
  • Lynx NGT-9000 ADSB In/Out
  • PS Engineering PMA450B Audio Panel
  • Dual G5?, Aspen? Wait for Dynon?
  • Fork over for a new Nav/Comm or Keep the KX-155 or what?
 
Only one comment. I have a PS 450 which I really like. The dimensional audio is a useful feature particularly during single pilot IFR ops.
 
You are gonna be ****ed if your airplane goes through all that work and you fly it home happy and the KX-155 craps out a few months later. It is not cost effective for most owners to piece meal a new panel together, I bet it takes me three hours just R&R all the junk to do what I wanted in the panel for things like that. That doesn't include relocating the airplane, fetching a ride home and all that occurs when and owner needs to leave the airplane at the shop.

If you are set on more than one panel upgrade event then disregard, just food for thought. Or could do some sort of slide-in replacement for if it craps, but "slide-in" may have some strings and may not be compatible with existing unknowns.
 
For IFR flying would you be comfortable with the IFD and just one other comm (not nav/comm)? I do have tablets with synthetic vision + separate battery powered ADSB/AHRS onboard.
 
For IFR flying would you be comfortable with the IFD and just one other comm (not nav/comm)? I do have tablets with synthetic vision + separate battery powered ADSB/AHRS onboard.
+1 on this. A new com isn't that expensive, even for the realm of avionics. Com is ~$1.5k Vs a Nav/com which is $4.5k + 1.5k for a CDI if yours is not compatible.
 
For IFR flying would you be comfortable with the IFD and just one other comm (not nav/comm)? I do have tablets with synthetic vision + separate battery powered ADSB/AHRS onboard.

Probably not.

BTW, is the KX155 in good shape? I mean a dealer might give you a pretty damn good trade in price towards a new nav/com. I was shocked at what we got for ours a couple years ago. Total bill was a lot less than I thought it would be.

I
 
All the current avionics are usable. I'm tempted to just wait for Dynon (like John above).
 
It took me three months of mulling it over, but I finally pulled the trigger on everything this week. I ordered a JPI EDM-830 that my A&P is going to install. I also sent the deposit to the avionics shop on basically what I originally mentioned, so this will generally be the setup:

I'm hoping to have everything finished up by mid-May.
 
It took me three months of mulling it over, but I finally pulled the trigger on everything this week. I ordered a JPI EDM-830 that my A&P is going to install. I also sent the deposit to the avionics shop on basically what I originally mentioned, so this will generally be the setup:

I'm hoping to have everything finished up by mid-May.

That’s fantastic! Gonna be a great panel!
 
I see you opted for the par- 200 instead of the 450. So just one nav and two coms. I have been wanting to upgrade my audio panel, but I also have old nav coms that are starting to give me problems.

Did you go this route due to saving space in the panel? would a separate com only radio cost much more? I like the idea of being able to play back the last transmission that the 450 has. Not sure if this is something I would actually use, but due to my hearing and the wife’s constant chatter I do find myself asking ATC to “say again”.
 
The PAR was a recommendation by the avionics shop. I was trying to hit a specific budget, so this helped to achieve that goal while also replacing my aging stand-alone comm. The panel space on the Bonanza is good, but if you have a dual yoke it can block the bottom of the stack, so trying to minimize the stack was a minor consideration as well. I would probably go with the 450 if it weren't for these issues. I'm a little disappointed about losing the Intelliaudio and second bluetooth.
 
I delivered the plane to the avionics shop last Thursday, it took a while due to waiting on the avionics and the harnesses as well as waiting on my A&P to finish the 830 installation. However, it just so happens that the Dynon Skyview system was certified for the 35 Bonanza today, so I decided to not install the G5s and instead go with the Dynon along with the Dynon auto-pilot. This is really the system I've been waiting for all along, so I'm super excited to head in this direction.

@JohnAJohnson are you flying a 35? I know you said you were waiting for the Dynon as well.
 
I was reading this thread and finally realized who you were, Challenged. We’re looking forward to getting your Dynon system going in.
 
Don't blow my cover! Heh. You guys have been awesome to work with so far, super responsive; much appreciated. I actually started saving for a full panel upgrade 7 years ago, believe it or not, right after I bought my Beech Sierra. So to finally get to the point where I can pull the trigger on this, and also have the Dynon system hit at the same time...well, it's like it was meant to be. Excited would be an understatement.
 
No, I've got a Cardinal RG. It'll be a while before it gets added to the AML, hopefully sometime in 2020. In the mean time I'll do the stack and keep the steam gauges, then when the Dynon is available it'll be the only thing left. My buddy a couple of hangars down has a 35 and we will probably do his plane in the next few months. He's been chomping at the bit too, holding off for the Dynon. He has an IFD550 and JPI 900 in the panel now, and will go with the entire Dynon system (including autopilot) sans engine.

I delivered the plane to the avionics shop last Thursday, it took a while due to waiting on the avionics and the harnesses as well as waiting on my A&P to finish the 830 installation. However, it just so happens that the Dynon Skyview system was certified for the 35 Bonanza today, so I decided to not install the G5s and instead go with the Dynon along with the Dynon auto-pilot. This is really the system I've been waiting for all along, so I'm super excited to head in this direction.

@JohnAJohnson are you flying a 35? I know you said you were waiting for the Dynon as well.
 
Well, I got the plane back from Saint Aviation on Tuesday and I've had several flights now. To put it mildly, it's a very impressive system. Even more impressive was the fact that everything just worked when we did the test flight, the only issues were cosmetic in nature and took 5 minutes to fix...quite the testament to how detail oriented and thorough they are at the shop.

Here's a picture of the new stack, with the PS Engineering PAR200 (Audio Panel + Com) as well as the Avidyne IFD540. The PAR200 is crisp and clear and generally the sound is much improved over the previous setup. I also have some bluetooth pairing options for music now, but have not tested that yet, and I can isolate myself if my 5 year old and my wife get a little chatty at the wrong time during a flight. This would probably be particularly handy when flying IFR on an approach.

I tried to use the Avidyne training app as much as I could prior to picking the plane up and that definitely helped to familiarize myself with it, but I did find myself grabbing my phone to look up a frequency quickly since I didn't know how to get to that information as readily on the IFD, but I can already feel that going away after just a couple of flights so generally it's very intuitive. I think I could have saved a bit of money by going with the 440 instead, but I don't regret having the larger screen area at all either.

The Lynx L3 ADS-B transponder was an easy choice on this install because they had a package deal with the IFD, so I got it for much less than really most any other available ADS-B solution. The screen itself is beautiful and has sort of a 3D effect when you look at it. It takes a little bit of pressure to swipe on the screen but not so much as to be annoying. Since traffic and weather are both displayed on the HDX I didn't find myself referencing the Lynx very often in flight, but again I don't regret the purchase because of the pricing and I do generally like having the option of displaying weather and traffic in the stack.
IMG_20190619_160156.jpg

Here's the backup EFIS and the two control panels for the HDX. I wasn't quite sure about the layout when Jesse originally sent me the picture, but I have to say that I think it's a good spot for all three of these items. The knobs and buttons are easy to get to and manipulate and the backup EFIS is easily in a primary scan location but I also never felt distracted by it. I still need to calibrate the magnetic heading on the backup EFIS so it's not currently showing the proper heading, but I may go out and do that this weekend.
IMG_20190619_160204.jpg

And I saved the best for last: the Skyview HDX display. My phone camera doesn't do the setup justice really as the display is perfectly visible even in the brightest of sunlight. I was a little concerned about going with just the single display instead of having another display to use as an MFD, but I'm 100% happy with the single display...it puts everything right in front of me and it's really a perfect size so that your scan is nice and tight while also having everything be easily readable. I really like the weather radar and traffic display, the way the data is presented is very well done. I had to stop not once, but twice on my flight back home from the shop due to weather so I really put that aspect of the system through the ringer on the 3 hour flight back.

All that said, my very favorite part of the system has to be the 3 axis auto-pilot. What a game changer this is not feeling exhausted on long flights and the yaw damper does an incredible job of stopping the "Bonanza Boogie" anytime the autopilot is engaged. You can also separately enable or disable the yaw damper as well with a button on the panel which is nice...my family loves the yaw damper. I wanted a system that would allow me to comfortably train and fly single pilot IFR and I really couldn't ask for anything more from what I've seen thus far.

Even with watching all of the Dynon and Avidyne training videos, I still feel like there's a lot more I need to study up on in regards to the system, but the basics were very easy to understand and things will only get easier from here on out I'm sure. It took me a full seven years to save up for a complete panel redo, but I'm totally wowed. I can't thank Jesse and Saint Aviation enough for making my panel dreams come true, they were really a joy to work with all the way through.
IMG_20190619_155402.jpg
 
Don't underestimate the time it takes to get proficient with the new gadgets in an IMC/IFR environment. The knobology can sometimes be more problematic than the actual flying. When the magic boxes are properly configured, a trained monkey can almost fly the plane. Wouldn't trade the magic box for a bucket of VORs and ADFs though. I trained almost 30 years ago...when LORAN was a thing...the magic boxes are amazingly safer to fly with. So much info at your fingertips.

Oh Yeah! Knobology and task management. I was convinced GPS was invented just to stimulate autopilot sales.
 
Great writeup Carey. I didn't know the Lynx would display on the HDX. I thought Dynon only allowed their own ADS-B IN source to display on the Skyviews. Can the Lynx also [simultaneously] display FIS and TIS on the IFD540?
 
He has the Dynon receiver for ADS-B on the Dynon. The Lynx will send weather and traffic to the 540.
 
Thanks Jesse. We're going to be talking as soon as the Cardinal gets added to the AML. Very impressive.
 
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