Creating a ditching checklist

[Katamarino]

I'm creating a bespoke ditching checklist for my aircraft - just in case. Below is what I have so far. I'd welcome comments and suggestions!

It assumes sufficient altitude to carry out steps, and is geared more towards open ocean ditching. My comments are in red, that won't appear on the final checklist.

Bolded items are the minimum essential items, if time is short.

- Pitch for minimum sink rate (if engine has failed, unless shore or vessel can be reached). Time aloft is more important than distance.
- Activate ELT. In open ocean, comms/rescue is of higher importance, and this is a simple switch flick.
- Transmit MayDay on 121.5 or active frequency As above
- Secure InReach on person Supplements rescue after ditching
- Open cabin doors and windows.
- Jettison un-essential items. Anything that won't be useful after ditching, e.g tools. Minimise loose items.
- Start pumping fuel overboard. Disconnect ferry fuel hose and start to pump fuel out of door.
- Tighten seat belts and life vests.
- Flaps full.
- Ensure doors wedged open with XXX. I'm debating windows open vs closed. Open seems safer but might cause violent water ingress on landing? Also debating removing the window restraints to allow them to open fully flat against the wing in case of need to egress through window, thoughts?
- Speed just above stall.
- Approach; HIGH WINDS, into wind. LOW wind, along swells.
- Master off.
- If significant fuel remains in ferry tank, slit ferry tank with knife to drain fuel This would be an issue for about the first 6 hours of the flight, after that the ferry tank should be empty enough to run less risk of crushing, although the restraints are engineered for 9g. I figure low risk of fire after master is off?
- Brace for impact. Lock shoulder harnesses. Thumbs clear of yoke. Feet clear of pedals.
- Once violent movement stops, exit aircraft with life-raft and ditching bag.
- Inflate life vests and life raft.
- If aircraft still afloat, retrieve any other useful equipment that can be safely reached.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I always thought if I was doing long distance flying like you do I would carry a helmet with me and, if time allowed, put the helmet on. Perhaps it is more liability in the water than an asset? You have BAS harnesses or similar I think, so maybe that is not as big a deal.

 

[Katamarino]

RIght, BAS harnesses are going in now. I think a helmet would be a bit unwieldy overall, and I have a lot of space between me and the panel.

 

[Eric Stoltz]

I would probably hit the ohsheet button on the PLB before much else, knowing me. Send a text to call off the Hercs when the engine starts running again?

Are you flying with HF? I dunno how far VHF can transmit or if you'll be near any antennae that will receive it.

Gumby suit on, I'll assume? Raft in a good enough spot? Submersible spare air?

Sat phone to call radio or whoever? Or the ohsheet desk? I definitely don't have any experience flying over oceans in anything but 737, so I'm not sure what is the norm for pilots like y'all.

I certainly enjoy your adventures!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

- If significant fuel remains in ferry tank, slit ferry tank with knife to drain fuel This would be an issue for about the first 6 hours of the flight, after that the ferry tank should be empty enough to run less risk of crushing, although the restraints are engineered for 9g. I figure low risk of fire after master is off?

Whaaaaaat? You're talking about "draining" fuel all over the inside of the cabin?!?

No way José. Make sure it's restrained and isn't going to "crush" you, and leave the fuel in the tank. I sure wouldn't cut it and get fuel everywhere because I would not be surprised at all if a few things bend and cause shorts and sparks when you hit the water.

How long does it take to pump the fuel out of the ferry tank? IIRC you have two pumps, can running both of them make it happen faster?

 

[bflynn]

I don’t see anything major missing.

I would place the location and accessibility of survival equipment as a preflight checklist item. When the big spinny thing stops is not the time to figure out if you can get your life raft out. Other than getting yourself out, the raft is the next most important thing to your survival.

You might add an item to mentally review the immediate physical actions once motions stops. Stress will be high and people can lose up to 90% of their mental processing under stress. If you review the physical motions to take, it will be in your short term memory and will be easier to execute. Those action should be:
1) how to release your shoulder harness and get it off your shoulders.
2) how to find the door handle when disoriented. Have a plan to place your hand on something in front of you and then feel your way to the door handle. It might not be as easy as just looking left and reaching for it. Plan to feel your way there. If you are really serious, do this every time you open the door. Silly, but it means you it will be second nature when you need it.
3) once out of the cockpit, know how you are going to pull your life raft out. That includes where your body will be, which arm you’re going to reach with, where you will grab it, what you will leverage yourself against, etc.

Again, you want to review the physical motions to make. If you remember the motions, you stand a very good chance of doing them.

I’m also not a fan of cutting a fuel tank open. If that’s a concern, get a way to dump the tank overboard.

 

[apr911]

I also dont do the long distance, open water flying you do but agree with @NealRomeoGolf that I would probably purchase a helmet for such operations. Truth be told a helmet would be good in any emergency situation even the short distance flights but it just seems more cumbersome in those situations, especially in the lower 48 where some form of airport or other runway surface is usually within a reasonable gliding distance (lower altitude flights notwithstanding) when at altitude

I'm also agreeing with @flyingcheesehead, cutting the ferry tank open seems like a very bad idea. You're talking about not only dousing the cabin in fuel but probably yourself too so even if you dont get a spark in the cabin or manage to egress before the fire starts, a fire outside the plane could still light you on fire. Most clothing today has some level of fire resistance to it; a cotton shirt for example doesn't just catch fire and go up in flames when you hold a lighter to it, especially when wet but if you douse it in fuel first it certainly will. You can also buy light weight fire-resistant clothing which would probably go along the same lines as the helmet; great for the long distance ferry operation, especially loaded down with extra fuel and good for any operation but probably more hassle then most people would want to go through for the purpose of everyday flights.

For me personally, I brief any and all survival gear I have with me on a flight (life jackets + raft when over open water, jackets/blankets, handheld radio, GPS locator, first aid, etc) and where it's located prior to departure so that I and/or my passengers know what to grab and where to grab it from in such an emergency. They might already sell something like this but if I were flying longer distance ferry's like you and they dont already make it, I'd probably get a milk crate in which to toss the survival stuff and fashion some type of lid. Easier to "grab the milk crate of survival gear" than "grab items 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 from locations A, B, C, D, E. Less likely to forget something. I'd get one of those pool ring floats that I'd put on the bottom of it to make it float so all I have to do is get it out the door (probably wouldn't work well in swells but calmer water probably be ok), actually if you had an airtight container of some sort it should have a natural bouyancy (though it'll sink once you open it so pool ring idea still remains). It also might eliminate your last step "retrieve other useful equipment"

I would also try to minimize "loose items" that might not be useful and need to be jettisoned before takeoff. If I'm going to strip a plane down and turn it into a flying gas can for the purpose of ferrying it, there really shouldn't be any "extras" onboard anyway. If its not directly useful to me in flight or in an emergency ditching situation, its just added weight that I dont need. Pack it in a box and ship it to its final destination.

 

[Zeldman]

For the folks advocating wearing a helmet in the plane, are you talking a tiny bicycle helmet that doesn't offer any facial or neck protection or a SNELL approved race helmet with HANS device that will help protect the face and help prevent neck injuries .??

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

For the folks advocating wearing a helmet in the plane, are you talking a tiny bicycle helmet that doesn't offer any facial or neck protection or a SNELL approved race helmet with HANS device that will help protect the face and help prevent neck injuries .??

I was thinking motorcycle with face shield type thing. Bulky but maybe worth it?

 

[Zeldman]

I was thinking motorcycle with face shield type thing. Bulky but maybe worth it?

A full helmet is definitely safer than a bicycle helmet that would take up less room in the cockpit. I know I sure tore up a couple race cars wearing a full helmet and no head injuries. I am thinking a plane that is equipped with a good shoulder harness like the BAS system would hold the upper body in place allowing the head and neck to be thrown forward during the accident far enough to cause neck injuries, which will be prevented by the HANS device. But I have no experience in crashing airplanes (knock on wood) just race cars.

 

[KaiGywer]

RIght, BAS harnesses are going in now. I think a helmet would be a bit unwieldy overall, and I have a lot of space between me and the panel.

But imagine the ramp appeal when you roll in sporting a fancy helmet

 

[Doug F]

...You might add an item to mentally review the immediate physical actions once motions stops. Stress will be high and people can lose up to 90% of their mental processing under stress. If you review the physical motions to take, it will be in your short term memory and will be easier to execute...

And practice it while upside down. The 'off field emergency landing' protocol on the Skycatcher called for undoing the bottom door latch early then opening the door just prior to landing. I was information overloaded when I crashed and failed to do either. When the plane landed upside down, the seat rotated in such a way that the lower latch was nearly impossible to reach and I had to flip it open with my foot then undo the main latch and undo my harness (and fall on my head). The point is that getting out of a plane after an unexpected landing can be a real PITA. I'm very happy mine happened on land cuz' being upside down in cold water is not my idea of a good time.

 

[iamtheari]

I would secure the PLB/InReach as a preflight checklist step, or at least as a “feet wet” checklist step. Anything you can do before the emergency without interfering with other safety of flight issues, I would do early.

About draining fuel, how fast will it really drain? Will the fuel dump be worth the challenge of performing it without losing control or at least losing altitude?

 

[murphey]

I don’t see anything major missing.

I would place the location and accessibility of survival equipment as a preflight checklist item. When the big spinny thing stops is not the time to figure out if you can get your life raft out. Other than getting yourself out, the raft is the next most important thing to your survival.

You might add an item to mentally review the immediate physical actions once motions stops.

I'd type the checklist in 18 pt (or larger) font, laminate and velcro it to the panel or egress window. Read what you need and what to do and not depend on mental review.

 

[Sundancer]

A brain bucket might help, but are a PITA, and a MC helmet might make it worse, given the mass and accelerations. An aviation specific helmet is lighter weight, made for absorbing energy across a surface, vice resisting a "point" impact. Not sure about digging it out and putting it on when higher order tasks are on your mind. I can tell you after a couple hours in a helmet, it feels great to take it off.

 

[Sinistar]

@Katamarino - curious what items you will have directly on you (so they are not on a checklist) so you don't have to grab or find them during the descent or after landing/flipping? When I think about going to the Bahamas my wife asks about going into the water....so it made think...this assumes the water warm and the following is on your person at all times:

• InReach or whatever SOS device
• Wicked bright, water proof LED lights with a blink option + second smaller light
• Damn good knife/cutter
• No shoes or better yet, water shoes: easy to swim in but also wouldn't cut feet if you wound up walking on coral or sharp part of the plane
• Swimmers goggles so you can actually see underwater during egress or going back under to get stuff out. Could wear them loose around the neck or clipped on. Many people freak about being underwater, especially eyes. And in heavy waves some simple googles would be very welcome after hours and hours of head under, head back up. Ideally they are tinted so could serve as eye protection from hot sun.
• Tucked into a pocket a few large trash bags. I have heard of spearfishing guys getting lost. One had a large garbage bag with all folded up. It made for a larger object to see from above as a body is about impossible to see. Maybe a bright LED flashing through it would be really visible. Could also use it to cover up from the sun or maybe somehow catch rain water.
• Scuba divers carry safety sausages (tall nylon tube) you inflate by mouth and can mount a light or cylume stick onto. These also provide buoyancy!!!
  
• You could wear a scuba diving "skin". Like zero extra weight, retains all mobility but does not provide warmth. However all the nasty little jellyfish will not get you and the sun will not fry you. Pick a color that sharks do not like
• Speaking of sun, even just a doo-rag or something in a pocket to keep from frying your head.
• One bottle of water that is full with a simple pop up top so you can drink it with waves splashing back in or fear of dropping the spin on cap. Something like a hikers water bladder in a backpack would carry more water but I would think a backpack would be a snag hazard getting out.
• Something, some kind of compact high energy food that if ocean waves hit it while eating it wouldn't destroy it. Think small candy bar but less salty, smaller, doesn't fall apart when wet.
• Watch: Maybe something with an alarm you can set if needed to signal or wake up, etc.

….I would think that stuff on you at all times (along with the life vest) you could survive a couple of days without the life raft and have a good chance of being spotted from above.

Sorry, its not on your checklist but your flight for some reason got me to thinking: What it if all goes to hell. I barely make it out. No chance to grab the raft or water or anything that was in the plane. Its what you have on you that has to be the perfect compromise between not being out of hand (ie bulky) and focused on 1-3 days survival to assist in being found.

 

[G-force]

Thought about bailing out? As a skydiver, I would be wearing a rig, push the life raft out (activate beacon if night time) and follow it out!

 

[Katamarino]

Are you flying with HF? I dunno how far VHF can transmit or if you'll be near any antennae that will receive it.

No HF; all comms out of VHF range will be satellite. The ELT is 406MHz, so should be picked up by satellite (until it sinks), and the PLB and InReach are the same. A VHF call on 121.5 to alert any passing airliners if time allows; I've done that once in the past and it worked out great.

Gumby suit on, I'll assume? Raft in a good enough spot? Submersible spare air?

Dry-suit and life-jackets on at all times over the Atlantic. Life-jacket on at all times over other waters. Raft will be as close to me as possible, well secured, as will the ditching grab-bag with various goodies. The life-jacket has some fairly capacious pockets for items such as PLB, rescue streamer, strobe, some water rations and boiled sweets, sun-screen and a floppy hat, etc.

I'm still un-decided about the spare air. In my ditching training I was out of the aircraft quickly enough that I'd probably have still been getting the spare air ready to use. However, if things don't go as planned, I can see it being useful. Open to more thoughts from the crowd on that..!

 

[Katamarino]

Whaaaaaat? You're talking about "draining" fuel all over the inside of the cabin?!?

No way José. Make sure it's restrained and isn't going to "crush" you, and leave the fuel in the tank. I sure wouldn't cut it and get fuel everywhere because I would not be surprised at all if a few things bend and cause shorts and sparks when you hit the water.

How long does it take to pump the fuel out of the ferry tank? IIRC you have two pumps, can running both of them make it happen faster?

I'm almost starting to think you don't like that idea! The cabin doors would be open so it would hopefully run out...but I'm starting to come around to your point of view on this.

The fuel only pumps out at about a gallon a minute, not enough to make a big difference but every little helps. Running both pumps might speed that slightly. The tank restraints are engineered to 9G so should be OK, especially once I have pumped a bit of fuel out of it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm almost starting to think you don't like that idea! The cabin doors would be open so it would hopefully run out...but I'm starting to come around to your point of view on this.

Well, presumably the plane has carpet. That's going be soaked before anything is running out the door. And you've gotta have enough air in the cabin left to breathe, so there's going to be oxygen, and this is all likely to be a combustible mixture at least part of the time.

I think with 9G restraints, in a ditching, you'll be just fine. You're going to at least attempt a flare to land, and you'll be going pretty slow at that point. I don't think you're going to get anywhere close to 9G, unless you ditch at night. Simple solution: Don't do the part of the flight where the ferry tank will be at its heaviest at night.

I was trying to think of a better way to get a lot of fuel overboard quickly, but all of the methods I can think of have major drawbacks as well, with the possible exception of an aux pump that can run at a much higher speed to pump things overboard.

 

[Katamarino]

Yeah, I think it's just a risk that'll have to be accepted.

 

[Badger]

Maybe obvious, but step 1 or 2: look for place to go down. In other words, can you go back? Closer to land another direction? Any boats or islands in sight?

 

[Maxnr]

Maybe obvious, but step 1 or 2: look for place to go down. In other words, can you go back? Closer to land another direction? Any boats or islands in sight?

I've done a fair amount of over water flying. While doing the pre take off passenger brief, designate one (or more) passengers to "Grab that ELT."
I came across an item that was given to me in SE Asia years ago. Its an 18" X 9' piece of red fabric. Its close to cheesecloth but a little heavier. It rolls up the size of a cajun sausage and fits in a pocket. A good suplement for a dye marker. Works on land too.

 

[apr911]

For the folks advocating wearing a helmet in the plane, are you talking a tiny bicycle helmet that doesn't offer any facial or neck protection or a SNELL approved race helmet with HANS device that will help protect the face and help prevent neck injuries .??

A simple bicycle helmet is still better than nothing but I was thinking something a little stronger than that... more like an open face motorcycle helmet, skydiver helmet or aerobatic pilot helmet.

Something light weight that can be grabbed and put on quickly and easily. A SNEL helmet with HANS probably doesn’t really fit the bill of “something I can put on in less than 20 seconds.”

As with skydiving, its not about eliminating head injuries so much as it is about limiting the damage and more importantly preventing a LOC; in an emergency egress, especially if the plane flips, it can be easy to bang your head and get knocked unconscious and end up going down with the plane.

 

[KaiGywer]

 

[apr911]

So... Make sure that you have at least 400 pounds of extra equipment in order to ensure you'll be safe.

Or... Have your two EPIRBs or PLBs or whatever. You already have your life raft. And I think the idea of having a ridiculously bright LED flashlight or beacon/strobe of some sort is awesome. Signalling mirror maybe. And a towel. Don't ever forget a towel (seriously).

As far as a helmet, four knives, a safety motorcycle, two kitchen sinks, a parka, 8 different changes of clothing, a wet suit over a dry suit over boardshorts over a speedo on top of another wetsuit, .300 win mag rifle, a spearfishing kit and RPG...

You're either going to die right away, or get found relatively quickly by the various methods you have experience with already in sharing your location, and with the methods you've already decided on. 300 pounds of other crap isn't going to save you. It won't even get out of the plane.

It's all a moot point anyway since your trip will go fabulously.

On the type of flight we’re talking, knives, source of fresh water, fishing line & hooks, blankets (both for warmth and for sun protection) are important items that should be part of any survival kit. I understand the point youre making and you are right that you can’t carry everything including the kitchen sink but you have certain primary items you wear/have on your person or can grab and put on your person in a hurry (life vest if not already worn & helmet), secondary items that can be grabbed in a hurry (especially if you pack them together in a single container) and tertiary items you grab as time permits.

Fishing line and hooks is a bit of a toss up. They’re small enough to keep on your person and fishing line and hooks can be useful in other ways (sutures or other bindings) but you can survive a week or more without food so they’re not necessarily critical or even secondary. Same goes for a knife, its small enough to carry on your person but you are either going to find it extremely useful (a seatbelt that won’t unbuckle or a number of other uses) or of no use at all. Really that’s the case with most emergency survival kit items; they’re either dead useful or dead weight with very little in between.

Some way of producing and containing fresh water should definitely be at least in the secondary kit (not many ways to convert/hold water that are portable enough to be on your person). And if your raft isn’t covered then a blanket should definitely be in the secondary category too. Being in the open water without protection from the elements is like being dropped in the desert... exposure will kill you quicker than anything else, followed closely by dehydration.

I also think it’s a mistake to think a rescue will occur quickly. Your location relay is only going to be so accurate and once in the water you become subject to currents and winds. Sure some of it can be reverse calculated to narrow the field but there’s a reason SAR efforts can take days in a narrowly defined area on land, let alone open water and chances are with an offshore open water rescue, rescue is still hours, if not more, away even after you’ve been successfully located/found.

 

[Katamarino]

I don’t see anything major missing.

I would place the location and accessibility of survival equipment as a preflight checklist item. When the big spinny thing stops is not the time to figure out if you can get your life raft out. Other than getting yourself out, the raft is the next most important thing to your survival.

Totally agree. I have lists of items to be on my person at all times, and also items that will be in the ditching grab bag. Raft and grab bag will be secured but as accessible as possible; probably on passenger seat floor over the Pacific, and just behind the seats over the Atlantic.

You might add an item to mentally review the immediate physical actions once motions stops. Stress will be high and people can lose up to 90% of their mental processing under stress. If you review the physical motions to take, it will be in your short term memory and will be easier to execute.

Another great point, and exactly what they taught us at Survival Systems during ditching training last month! I'll be practicing it very regularly in the airplane.

 

[Katamarino]

For me personally, I brief any and all survival gear I have with me on a flight (life jackets + raft when over open water, jackets/blankets, handheld radio, GPS locator, first aid, etc) and where it's located prior to departure so that I and/or my passengers know what to grab and where to grab it from in such an emergency. They might already sell something like this but if I were flying longer distance ferry's like you and they dont already make it, I'd probably get a milk crate in which to toss the survival stuff and fashion some type of lid. Easier to "grab the milk crate of survival gear" than "grab items 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 from locations A, B, C, D, E. Less likely to forget something. I'd get one of those pool ring floats that I'd put on the bottom of it to make it float so all I have to do is get it out the door (probably wouldn't work well in swells but calmer water probably be ok), actually if you had an airtight container of some sort it should have a natural bouyancy (though it'll sink once you open it so pool ring idea still remains). It also might eliminate your last step "retrieve other useful equipment"

I have a ditching grab bag that will have all the essentials in that I might want, but won't fit on my person. It floats, which is helpful, and is bright yellow. My final step you mention there was anything else that may be vaguely useful but doesn't fit on my person or in the grab bag; extra snacks that were in the seat-back pockets, for example, or my luggage (which would offer a couple of changes of clothes, and toothbrush!) "Nice to haves", basically, only to be gone for if the airplane is still floating and they can be safely grabbed.

I would also try to minimize "loose items" that might not be useful and need to be jettisoned before takeoff. If I'm going to strip a plane down and turn it into a flying gas can for the purpose of ferrying it, there really shouldn't be any "extras" onboard anyway. If its not directly useful to me in flight or in an emergency ditching situation, its just added weight that I don't need. Pack it in a box and ship it to its final destination.

Totally agree. The airplane will be entirely bare other than anything essential for that part of the trip. Things to jettison might include the fuel pump assembly that sits on the passenger seat when ferry tank is in use. I need it when flying, but if ditching (and I have time) it can get out of the way! Items like spare oil from the seatback pocket, the few tools I carry, etc; if there is time, that can all go out the door.

 

[Katamarino]

...You might add an item to mentally review the immediate physical actions once motions stops. Stress will be high and people can lose up to 90% of their mental processing under stress. If you review the physical motions to take, it will be in your short term memory and will be easier to execute...

And practice it while upside down. The 'off field emergency landing' protocol on the Skycatcher called for undoing the bottom door latch early then opening the door just prior to landing. I was information overloaded when I crashed and failed to do either. When the plane landed upside down, the seat rotated in such a way that the lower latch was nearly impossible to reach and I had to flip it open with my foot then undo the main latch and undo my harness (and fall on my head). The point is that getting out of a plane after an unexpected landing can be a real PITA. I'm very happy mine happened on land cuz' being upside down in cold water is not my idea of a good time.

Great to have some feedback from someone who's actually been through a similar event!

I'll be practicing the immediate physical actions very regularly. That was how they taught us at Survival Systems, and I could really see the value. I'm extremely glad I did the training.

I'm debating a HEEDS bottle as well. Not sure yet whether it's worth it.

 

[Katamarino]

I would secure the PLB/InReach as a preflight checklist step, or at least as a “feet wet” checklist step. Anything you can do before the emergency without interfering with other safety of flight issues, I would do early.

About draining fuel, how fast will it really drain? Will the fuel dump be worth the challenge of performing it without losing control or at least losing altitude?

PLB will be in the life vest at all times, along with the rest of my on-person survival gear. The InReach needs to be on the dash to be able to send the tracking info, as well as send and receive messages, so that will have to be grabbed and put into my life vest pocket as and when needed.

You're probably right about the fuel side of things...

 

[Katamarino]

@Katamarino - curious what items you will have directly on you (so they are not on a checklist) so you don't have to grab or find them during the descent or after landing/flipping?

Agreed! Will make another thread about equipment.

 

[Groundpounder]

I went through Survival System training as well, about 10 years ago. I hated it, because I hate being underwater, but the training was invaluable.

The only thing I could suggest is some goggles. Being able to keep your eyes open and not worry about them getting gas, oil or salt in them will aid in your escape. Otherwise sounds like you have a good plan together.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

The people suggesting a helmet here clearly have never flown with one. First off, in a controlled ditching, the forces of flight are all going to be forward which the BAS harnesses will HANDILY protect you from. Go to their website and see what people have survived with those harnesses, it's simple unbelievable. They were one of the first things I installed in my plane.

Flying with a helmet is great for backcountry flying where if you ditch into trees or on a mountain side it's very likely that the force will be lateral which the helmet will protect you from hitting your head against the side of the cabin. The BAS harnesses protect you from hitting the panel.

Not to mention that having a few pounds on your head when you're submerged is NOT going to help your vestibular senses and once it gets water logged is going to become FAR more of a nuisance than a help.

In a 182 the controlled crash forces into water just are not high enough to justify a helmet in the least AND will make it far more difficult to get your senses and egress the aircraft. Suggesting a motorcycle helmet? That's going to have a certainty of dehydrating you and fatiguing you which will be waaaaay more dangerous than the slim chance of a head hit from an even slimmer chance of a ditching. Many believe the philosophy in backcountry is that if it's not on you... forget about it... the same goes for helmets.

 

[murphey]

I've done a fair amount of over water flying. While doing the pre take off passenger brief, designate one (or more) passengers to "Grab that ELT."
I came across an item that was given to me in SE Asia years ago. Its an 18" X 9' piece of red fabric. Its close to cheesecloth but a little heavier. It rolls up the size of a cajun sausage and fits in a pocket. A good suplement for a dye marker. Works on land too.

There are neon orange garbage bags (big 30-40 gal size). I keep a couple in the airplane emergency bag AND the bag in the car. Never know when I'm going to get stuck in the mountains in snow. again.

 

[apr911]

The people suggesting a helmet here clearly have never flown with one. First off, in a controlled ditching, the forces of flight are all going to be forward which the BAS harnesses will HANDILY protect you from. Go to their website and see what people have survived with those harnesses, it's simple unbelievable. They were one of the first things I installed in my plane.

Flying with a helmet is great for backcountry flying where if you ditch into trees or on a mountain side it's very likely that the force will be lateral which the helmet will protect you from hitting your head against the side of the cabin. The BAS harnesses protect you from hitting the panel.

Not to mention that having a few pounds on your head when you're submerged is NOT going to help your vestibular senses and once it gets water logged is going to become FAR more of a nuisance than a help.
View attachment 73180

Realize this thread has kind of died off now and @Katamarino has already set off on their journey but I missed this post and wanted to put forth a response...

The BAS harness is great and should keep your head from hitting anything during the initial impact but then you have to deal with egress from the plane. The plane may well be upside down with bent and broken metal, taking on water and sinking while both you and the plane are bobbing up and down in the surf (likely at different magnitudes) with plenty of surfaces to which you probably aren't paying attention to some of which may be in an unexpected position/location on which you can hit your head. In the right place and right direction, it does not take that much force to knock a person unconscious (just look at boxing) which would absolutely be deadly if you were still in the plane and potentially deadly if you were outside the plane, not face up and without your life jacket inflated. While not directly caused by the LOC it also can be deadly if you fail to grab your survival gear and/or secure it to your person to prevent it from drifting away.

There's also the fact that there's likely to be broken metal and while broken metal can absolutely cut you and even kill you if it hits the right spot (arteries), head wounds in particular are heavy bleeders in their own right, they also impair cognitive function and aren't always noticed right away. You also have several arteries in the head which unlike a lot of other arteries in the body which are protected by the body in someway, are much more exposed.

As to the claim about your vestibular system being messed up both from the initial weight of the helmet and the added weight once the helmet gets water logged, I dont really buy it. Your vestibular system is going to be messed up to begin with and its unlikely to reach equilibrium until well after the plane has sunk and you are hopefully cocooned in your life raft. There's a reason why the survival training tells you to follow the bubbles and not follow what your vestibular system is telling you even without the helmet. Many survivors of both boat and plane accidents have reported having no issue getting out of their craft but then struggling to find "up" and at least initially going the wrong way. As to the initial helmet weight, the cookie carbon fiber skydiving helmet weighs 600-650grams which is about 1.3lbs and its far from the lightest (though it does seem to offer some of the better protection for its weight). The average over-ear aviation headset is in the neighborhood of 0.7-1.0lbs so you are either going to take the headset off and have no helmet resulting in a vestibular system that is immediately -0.7 to -1.0lbs out of equilibrium independent of the lack of equilibrium caused by the crash itself or you're going to put the helmet on and have a vestibular system that is +0.3 to +0.6lbs out of equilibrium.

Many believe the philosophy in backcountry is that if it's not on you... forget about it... the same goes for helmets.

I'm a bit torn on this statement. In the vast majority of cases, I dont carry a helmet but I do feel like if I were flying backcountry or over oceans where rescue may be a long way off and my survival is more dependent on my ability to remain conscious and think, I absolutely would. Ultimately though this statement is a prime example of the invulnerability hazardous attitude the FAA warns pilots so much about.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

As to the initial helmet weight, the cookie carbon fiber skydiving helmet weighs 600-650grams which is about 1.3lbs and its far from the lightest (though it does seem to offer some of the better protection for its weight). The average over-ear aviation headset is in the neighborhood of 0.7-1.0lbs so you are either going to take the headset off and have no helmet resulting in a vestibular system that is immediately -0.7 to -1.0lbs out of equilibrium independent of the lack of equilibrium caused by the crash itself or you're going to put the helmet on and have a vestibular system that is +0.3 to +0.6lbs out of equilibrium.

I still disagree with your statement, but don't have anything constructive to add to my initial post, so agree to disagree. A point of clarification here: many posters in this thread were suggesting a full-face motorcycle-style helmet, which absolutely weighs more than that and far FAR more than that when water logged. Just a small nit to pick with your response. I would have less issue with a smaller helmet like you suggest, though I still find it absolutely unnecessary when ditching into water YMMV.

 

[apr911]

I still disagree with your statement, but don't have anything constructive to add to my initial post, so agree to disagree. A point of clarification here: many posters in this thread were suggesting a full-face motorcycle-style helmet, which absolutely weighs more than that and far FAR more than that when water logged. Just a small nit to pick with your response. I would have less issue with a smaller helmet like you suggest, though I still find it absolutely unnecessary when ditching into water YMMV.

Fair.

Yeah my suggestion was never a full face motorcycle helmet... at most I would say a skull cap motorcycle helmet (the type a lot of Harley riders wear) but even that is 2.3lbs and offers less protection to the back of your head than the cookie.

You could even go the ultralight “helmet” route which is used by skydivers and aviators a like and is really nothing more than a lightly padded, thick leather cap (frap caps). It at least would protect your head from lacerations and offers some padding/protection albeit minimal from a head bump and LOC

I also will agree that a helmet may prove to be useless 9 times out of 10 but to me Id want my head at least protected to some degree anyway regardless but especially in that instance where it would prove useful.

Anyway, we can agree to the overall utility of a helmet being low and disagree that you should/shouldn’t carry one despite the lack of utility. Sounds reasonable to me

The only thing I’ll add is that ditching in a lake or river or even coastal water is going to be quite a bit different from open ocean so while a helmet might not provide much utility in most situations, it very well might when you’re bobbing up and down in the open ocean