CPL night XC, civil twilight vs night

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

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For the 2-hour night XC, the regs are not clear if it has to be night as defined by logging night flight (end of civil twilight), or night as defined by loggable night takeoff and landing.

A flight has to include a takeoff and landing and in my mind we can’t depart until one hour after sunset. Thoughts?

That is the conservative interpretation, just curious what others think. I have not seen an FAA letter that covers this.
 
My thought(s):

1.1 defines night and makes no mention of one hour after sunset.

61.57 (b) which has the one hour after sunset reqirement is for night currency only.

In my view, there is no reason to wait until one hour after sunset for the commercial night X/C training.
 
Walboy is correct. In this case, the takeoffs and landings are not being done for passenger-carrying night currency. That is the ONLY time they are required to be an hour after sunset and before sunrise.
 
Weren't there a lot more posts in this thread yesterday?
 
3 timeframes related to where the sun is:

Sunset to sunrise = Nav lights on 91.209.

End of civil twilight to beginning of morning twilight = “night” FAR 1.

1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise = pax currency 61.57(b).


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A reg that is near and dear to my heart. I submitted a petition for rulemaking to fix the 14 CFR 1 definition of night. They adopted my change without even going to a full up rulemaking.
 
crash7 said:
3 timeframes related to where the sun is:

Sunset to sunrise = Nav lights on 91.209.

End of civil twilight to beginning of morning twilight = “night” FAR 1.

1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise = pax currency 61.57(b).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, unless within the preceding 90 days that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise, and—
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Walboy is correct. In this case, the takeoffs and landings are not being done for passenger-carrying night currency. That is the ONLY time they are required to be an hour after sunset and before sunrise.
Click to expand...

Sooo, if you do to/landing after civil twilight (evening) but before 1 hour after sunset you can log night landing, but not use it for your pax currency????
 
Pinecone said:
Sooo, if you do to/landing after civil twilight (evening) but before 1 hour after sunset you can log night landing, but not use it for your pax currency????
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Since the rules say you can log as nighttime any flight between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, it seems the answer is YES.
 
Now, HOW do you log this to not think you were night current, but actually weren't?????? :D
 
Pinecone said:
Now, HOW do you log this to not think you were night current, but actually weren't?????? :D
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Since there's no rule against logging less time than I flew, I only log night flight that meets the night passenger-carrying requirement.
 
flyingron said:
A reg that is near and dear to my heart. I submitted a petition for rulemaking to fix the 14 CFR 1 definition of night. They adopted my change without even going to a full up rulemaking.
Click to expand...
What did the definition say before you got it changed?
 
Palmpilot said:
What did the definition say before you got it changed?
Click to expand...
The reg referred to a publication, "The American Air Almanac," which ceased publication many decades ago. The publication, now jointly produced between the US and the UK, is just called "The Air Almanac."
 
I have never seen either of these almanacs, but the times of civil twilight are easily found online. I generally use AirNav.com.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
I have never seen either of these almanacs, but the times of civil twilight are easily found online. I generally use AirNav.com.
Click to expand...
In the US published by the Naval Oservatory.

Used to be that you had to order/buy them from GPO or a supplier. Now you can download them,

The Air Almanac

Provides description of The Air Almanac, with links to errata page, depository libraries, history of The Air Almanac, and ordering information.
aa.usno.navy.mil aa.usno.navy.mil

Your C-130 Navs were familiar with it, as it has the info to do celestial nav. The Nautical Almanac for surface navigation.
 
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