COVID-WTF Thread

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Bell206 said:
FWIW: I would agree with you in normal instances. But in instances that are overwhelming to a large group of people, like a major hurricane or this pandemic, there is usually a group of people who face the situation with trepidation or in some cases panic. And when some in this group...not all...feel they need to justify their "feelings" toward the situation they will start to include "everyone" and "everything" in their discussions. This was most evident from the emotions shown across social media about stay-at-home orders. A quote from one blog page sums it up: "Everybody needs to stay home or we all die." So, when I see an all-inclusive term used in similar situations that I'm involved with, regardless of the reasons, I will correct it as the "exceptions" usually greatly outnumber the individuals of original core group being addressed.
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Of course. There are always exceptions. (which used to be in my signature).
 
We finally got a confirmed official positive case in our county, I saw people on a local FB group demanding that they needed to know who it was. Upon HIPPA being mention people adamantly insisted HIPPA needed to be suspended for the time being.

In other news there were two known "large" parties in a neighboring county. By large I mean about 20 people. This made the news. People in the comments were demanding everyone who went be locked up and jailed.

Again, people are scaring me a lot more than the virus.
 
And in other news....

A drive-in theater near San Antonio was forced to close for violating the "stay at home" order, even though everyone stayed in their cars. One size fits all....

And in Cincinnati, someone was arrested for attending and filming a large party/gathering the other night. He is held on $350,000 bond and likely I'll be held until a grand jury in July. The prosecutor argued he should stay in jail because if he wanted to avoid the virus he would have obeyed the law. They also slapped him with a "inciting violence" charge, though it's not clear how they reached that conclusion as I saw no evidence of violence in any of the news reports.
 
wsuffa said:
And in other news....

A drive-in theater near San Antonio was forced to close for violating the "stay at home" order, even though everyone stayed in their cars. One size fits all....

And in Cincinnati, someone was arrested for attending and filming a large party/gathering the other night. He is held on $350,000 bond and likely I'll be held until a grand jury in July. The prosecutor argued he should stay in jail because if he wanted to avoid the virus he would have obeyed the law. They also slapped him with a "inciting violence" charge, though it's not clear how they reached that conclusion as I saw no evidence of violence in any of the news reports.
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The guy in Cincinnati actually has quite a police record; he's no solid citizen. The streets are safer with COVID than with him loose.
 
Bell206 said:
No it wasn't. I would have addressed it directly to you if it was. Just as I do my other posts here, when needed. However, if my post struck a cord with you then perhaps that's something you need look at.
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Well, you quoted my post, so what was I to think? Your post didn't strike a "cord" (chord?), but in view of your last reply to me last night, it seemed possible that you might be directing that statement at me.

For the same reason another person did the same, as well as a couple others who I conversed with. It happens and is apart of any normal discourse. Correct?
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Some misinterpretation is normal. What is not normal is thinking another person meant the exact opposite of what they did, and then after the person states explicitly what they were trying to say, acting as if that person was changing their "tune", or "moving the goalposts", or whatever metaphor/analogy you want to use.

No clue what you mean by this. Another misinterpretation? But if you mean do I continue to articulate my opinion when there is no clear conclusion then guilty as charged. It's how most normal debates and discussions are done whether here on PoA or other avenues. At least in my experience.
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I was referring to your post #94, where after I clarified in post #91 that I was NOT saying that misattribution of COD was likely given the guidelines (just the opposite), you came back with a snarky and insulting rejoinder that I thought was uncalled for. That's what I meant by "being on the muscle". Maybe that expression is no longer in common usage?
 
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azure said:
...That's what I meant by "being on the muscle". Maybe that expression is no longer in common usage?
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Maybe it's a regional thing. This is the first time I have seen or heard it used.
 
Palmpilot said:
OK, now I had to go and count! 37 rolls here.
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I probably shouldn't say this, but I have somewhere around 180. But NOT because of the current crisis... because the nearest Costco is over 50 miles away and I only go there every 2 or 3 months, I got in the habit of buying a 30-roll brick nearly every time I went, and my stash has just piled up over the years.
 
azure said:
I probably shouldn't say this, but I have somewhere around 180. But NOT because of the current crisis... because the nearest Costco is over 50 miles away and I only go there every 2 or 3 months, I got in the habit of buying a 30-roll brick nearly every time I went, and my stash has just piled up over the years.
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Sounds like neither of us has changed our buying habits.
 
cowman said:
We finally got a confirmed official positive case in our county, I saw people on a local FB group demanding that they needed to know who it was. Upon HIPPA being mention people adamantly insisted HIPPA needed to be suspended for the time being.
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Good to know the same idiots live everywhere. We're up to 4 confirmed cases and every one "Where were they, where did they go, etc etc" I can assure you people that positive people have been in every grocery store in the county already and there are way more than 4 people who are positive.
 
azure said:
That's what I meant by "being on the muscle". Maybe that expression is no longer in common usage?
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In the 40+ years I have been writing, to include being published, never once read or heard of that saying. Undaunted, I checked Google and got this: "Prepositional phrase. on the muscle. (horse-racing) Of a horse: frisky and energetic, seeming keen to race." or "Meaning a horse that is very fit and ready to race." Interesting use.......

But as I've said before, if you "felt," believed," or 'thought" my comments were uncalled for, snarky, or "insulting", I can't help you with that. I speak my mind and don't mince words. I was taught many moons ago that if I indulge in public debate and civil discourse I would need to have a thick skin. I just expect the others in the group to be the same and especially on PoA.;)
 
Bell206 said:
In the 40+ years I have been writing, to include being published, never once read or heard of that saying. Undaunted, I checked Google and got this: "Prepositional phrase. on the muscle. (horse-racing) Of a horse: frisky and energetic, seeming keen to race." or "Meaning a horse that is very fit and ready to race." Interesting use.......
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Not exactly the meaning I was taught. As used in my family, it meant having an aggressive attitude, running roughshod over people. Often without any insight into one's own behavior or the effect it had on others.

But as I've said before, if you "felt," believed," or 'thought" my comments were uncalled for, snarky, or "insulting", I can't help you with that. I speak my mind and don't mince words. I was taught many moons ago that if I indulge in public debate and civil discourse I would need to have a thick skin. I just expect the others in the group to be the same and especially on PoA.;)
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I never asked for your "help" with anything. You did point me to a very useful link, I thanked you for that, and tried to continue the discussion, and you responded with ad hominems.

But... whatevs, dude. :rolleyes:
 
Our governor found it necessary to make it illegal for someone to stand by the side of the river and fish or to ride a jet-ski, yet it took until this weekend to mandate that nursing homes use seperate PPE for covid+ and naive patients.
 
weilke said:
Our governor found it necessary to make it illegal for someone to stand by the side of the river and fish or to ride a jet-ski, yet it took until this weekend to mandate that nursing homes use seperate PPE for covid+ and naive patients.
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Naïveté kills! LOL. (Typo is funny.)
 
redtail said:
I'm still trying to figure out why some people are driving around in their cars wearing a mask, with no one else in the vehicle?
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Maybe they were on their way to pick somebody up and didn't want to potentially spread the virus around the vehicle first?

Shawn said:
Our local grocery stores are implementing all sorts of crowd control measures which I'm many ways are counter productive so social distancing creating choke point and crowding aisles. Grocery stores are seeing record revenues...if they REALLY cared about health and safely of customers they would staff enough checkers to keep lines from forming...but they don't really care THAT much. Another SMH.

I for the life of me do not understand why they do not create ONE line diverted away from rest of shopper that you wait for next available cashier while managing 6' in line AND free up the aisles for others to pass safely.
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The local Costco locations are doing exactly that. One line, one employee "wrangler" to tell the next person which checkout to go to, and every last checkout open. They've done a number of other really smart things and have been noticeably better than any other remaining retail outlet at dealing with this crisis, IMO.

murphey said:
This is what Costco is doing. At least in Colorado.
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Here in Wisconsin, too.

tspear said:
The Michigan coroner report was from last week. So rather recent.
In terms of testing. No it is not solved. I know multiple people still waiting on being allowed to test or getting the results. Is it getting better, likely. But it is very uneven across the country.
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So... I've had an interesting experience regarding testing.

I've had symptoms but suspect it is from something non-COVID. I first tried to get tested (and seen by the doc to treat whatever it is) three weeks ago when this was first blowing up. Called to make an appointment, was told I'd be called back, triage nurse called back within an hour. That was the same then as it was today.

Then, I was unable to get a test or see the doc. Today, I was able to do both (the doc "visit" was over the phone). They said I qualified for the test today under "new criteria for testing." After a lot of poking and prodding into that issue, I found out that until literally TODAY (Well, OK, the clock has ticked past midnight, so yesterday) that they were not testing ANYONE unless they had comorbidities (diabetes, immunocompromised, over 60, etc) regardless of how many symptoms they had. Crazy!
 
azure said:
Source? I've certainly heard anecdotal cases of COVID deaths being attributed to something else, but I haven't seen a good argument that we are systematically under-counting them. Humans are fallible, and I would expect those errors to be counterbalanced by the ones @Doc Holliday is worried about.
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Keep looking and you will find a good argument that we are under-counting COVID-19 deaths. Here are a couple:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html?searchResultPosition=2

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/health/coronavirus-coroners-uncounted-deaths-invs/index.html
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Maybe they were on their way to pick somebody up and didn't want to potentially spread the virus around the vehicle first?
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Good point.
In fact, a few days ago I had to stop and pick up some groceries after leaving work. I put my mask on just before my relief arrived, so that I could brief him. Knowing I'd be going to the store, I found myself driving with it on.......then it all clicked :D
 
Construction of a water pipeline on a nearby street hasn’t stopped. Yesterday I saw a worker hanging off the side of a backhoe, with his mask around his neck, smoking a cigarette. :rofl:
 
redtail said:
I'm still trying to figure out why some people are driving around in their cars wearing a mask, with no one else in the vehicle?
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I can tell you why I do it: If I'm going to be making more than one stop (which often happens if the first store doesn't have everything I'm looking for, for example), then taking off the mask every time I get in the car and putting it back on when I get out increases the chances for the virus to get transferred to the wrong side of the mask.
 
Palmpilot said:
I can tell you why I do it: If I'm going to be making more than one stop (which often happens if the first store doesn't have everything I'm looking for, for example), then taking off the mask every time I get in the car and putting it back on when I get out increases the chances for the virus to get transferred to the wrong side of the mask.
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I get the cross contamination aspect. But the one I wonder is when I go for a walk in the morning, I see the same people obviously having just left home wearing a mask. That is one I do no get.

Tim
 
tspear said:
I get the cross contamination aspect. But the one I wonder is when I go for a walk in the morning, I see the same people obviously having just left home wearing a mask. That is one I do no get.

Tim
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I think the current guidance calls for that whenever we're away from home. My rationale would be that you never know when circumstances beyond your control might cause the social/physical distancing requirement to not be met.
 
Datadriver said:
I'd like to see the science behind people in parked cars being a public health threat.
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...or people metal detecting on a beach alone
...or people fishing off their bass boat
...or people planting string beans in their yard

Once you give people the power to 'ban things', they tend to go a bit overboard.
 
Palmpilot said:
I can tell you why I do it: If I'm going to be making more than one stop (which often happens if the first store doesn't have everything I'm looking for, for example), then taking off the mask every time I get in the car and putting it back on when I get out increases the chances for the virus to get transferred to the wrong side of the mask.
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Same here.

Yeah, I wrote that before the current guidelines came out to wear one whenever leaving home and when going into stores.
Things changed dramatically in a week!

Not too long ago, they were saying there's no need for the general public to wear mask at all.
The level of incompetence from our 'leaders' is incredible :rolleyes:
 
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Datadriver said:
I'd like to see the science behind people in parked cars being a public health threat.
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It's not... *IF* everyone keeps their windows closed. If they don't do that, they're likely within 6 feet of the next guy.

weilke said:
...or people metal detecting on a beach alone
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Nothing wrong with that either... But if there's one person on the beach, everyone else sees them and wants to go to the beach too, and then there's a problem. CA was having an issue with that, so they restricted people to *walking* to parks so that not everyone was driving to the same parks. Unfortunately, we've now had to close the state parks here in WI because people were crowding the state parks and, in some cases, purposely flouting the social distancing guidelines. :(

...or people fishing off their bass boat
...or people planting string beans in their yard
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Haven't seen those restricted...

redtail said:
Not too long ago, they were saying there's no need for the general public to wear mask at all.
The level of incompetence from our 'leaders' in incredible :rolleyes:
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While I certainly agree with your last statement, It's not necessarily all incompetence. If you look at how people are wearing masks, most of them are doing it wrong. I think they were also trying to preserve the supply of N95 masks for health care workers, and at the time the risk was lower with the virus not being as widespread. Finally, the science has been changing in that time frame as well - At that point they didn't think it could be spread in breath aerosols, only droplets. Now they think that may not be true, they've found the virus floating around but not sure if it's viable.

They probably also thought that it wouldn't be so hard to get people to sit on their asses at home. :rolleyes:
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
While I certainly agree with your last statement, It's not necessarily all incompetence. If you look at how people are wearing masks, most of them are doing it wrong. I think they were also trying to preserve the supply of N95 masks for health care workers, and at the time the risk was lower with the virus not being as widespread. Finally, the science has been changing in that time frame as well - At that point they didn't think it could be spread in breath aerosols, only droplets. Now they think that may not be true, they've found the virus floating around but not sure if it's viable.
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Actually, that is really a case of "not invented here". Flu transmission rates, and other respiratory epidemics have all shown simple dust masks significantly slow transmission in Asia. There have been many studies about it. Just the good old USA and Europe ignore studies out of Asia because "we do not trust the numbers".
The basic premise of the mask in public is not to protect you; it is to protect others from you. Asia gets it. We do not.
And this has been around a long.

Tim
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Unfortunately, we've now had to close the state parks here in WI because people were crowding the state parks and, in some cases, purposely flaunting the social distancing guidelines. :(
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Flouting
 
True that it's a cultural thing for some asians to wear masks. When I moved to a place with a large asian population, I was surprised to see some people wearing masks. I thought they were a lot of germaphobes in the population until someone clued me in to the fact that the masks were used as a courtesy to protect other people. Who knew? This was way before Covid.
 
tspear said:
Flu transmission rates, and other respiratory epidemics have all shown simple dust masks significantly slow transmission in Asia. There have been many studies about it. Just the good old USA and Europe ignore studies out of Asia because "we do not trust the numbers".
The basic premise of the mask in public is not to protect you; it is to protect others from you. Asia gets it. We do not.
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How effective at that are masks with exhalation valves?
 
Everskyward said:
True that it's a cultural thing for some asians to wear masks. When I moved to a place with a large asian population, I was surprised to see some people wearing masks. I thought they were a lot of germaphobes in the population until someone clued me in to the fact that the masks were used as a courtesy to protect other people. Who knew? This was way before Covid.
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I lived in NYC for 15 years (recently moved back to my home state NJ). I must admit, when I started seeing people in Chinatown wearing mask over the last few years, I thought they were rather paranoid. Who knew that soon we'd all look like that!

Strange world we live in, where humans (all races) have caused so much darn destruction and pollution, that it's not even safe to breath naturally, like we were born to do! :rolleyes:

If I was God......
Nevermind
 
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asicer said:
How effective at that are masks with exhalation valves?
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They are effective at protecting the wearer from inhaling particles within the limits of their rated range. They have very limited effect at protecting others around the wearer as all those droplets and aerosols the wearer produces will get expelled in a jet through the exhalation valve.

- If you want to protect yourself, you wear a N95 and a face shield.
- If you want to protect the folks around you, you wear a surgical mask.
- If you want to protect both yourself and the folks around you, you wear a 'surgical N95'* and a face shield.



* combination device of a N95 rated particulate filter and splash proof surgical mask to guard against the surgeon contaminating his surgical field and to protect the surgeon against aersols generated during the procedure.
 
asicer said:
How effective at that are masks with exhalation valves?
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If it is a decent quality mask, and the mask has been handled carefully, it is fine. One way to test it is to close your hands around the edges of the mask to make the edge seal as good as possible, then inhale deeply. If the exhaust valve is significantly defective, you will likely feel or hear the air coming more from the valve area.
 
The Asiatic fellows in my classes wear the things to keep from getting infected. That's what they tell me, anyway. Some were wearing those things even before the Coronavirus made its appearance.

The problem is COVID19 is nearly impossible to analyze on a population wide scale. Its symptoms vary from sniffles to death. What symptoms it does show are copied by nearly every cold virus in existence. And without a good verifiable test that can be put into widespread use (no, PCR definitely doesn't cut it) you never know who has or has had it. What we do know it that it causes lethality far more often than other respiratory viruses, and it puts folks in the hospital far more often as well. Enough to make it very scary indeed. Stay safe everyone.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
If it is a decent quality mask, and the mask has been handled carefully, it is fine. One way to test it is to close your hands around the edges of the mask to make the edge seal as good as possible, then inhale deeply. If the exhaust valve is significantly defective, you will likely feel or hear the air coming more from the valve area.
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It sounds like many N95 masks with exhalation valves are rather useless for most of the population.

Unused ones would have likely already been donated to first responders. Re-used ones don't protect people around you because of the exhalation valve. Re-used ones also don't protect the wearer unless it is washable and retains its N95 properties after washing.

Does a re-used N95 mask with an exhalation valve have any value?
 
The question is, do N95s with exhalation valves possibly add to the spread of the virus in a hospital setting? There are likely a large number of medical workers who have been exposed but are asymptomatic and untested. Raises some interesting questions about how best to handle PPE for the "second wave".
 
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