COVID Vaccine

[MuseChaser]

HAHAHAHA! It was what you said. "why do I 'need' to get these shots? my answer is, I don't." That's covid denial. That's how you die. That's how you kill friends and family. That's how the US ends up among the worst in the world in fighting this. That's like the poster child for covid denial.

The hyperbole and hysteria present in that post does us all a tremendous disservice. It is quite a leap from the factually small chance, for the vast majority of the populace, of contracting Covid and dying from it, or contracting it and passing it to a friend or family member who then dies from Covid, to your assertion that, basically, anyone who doesn't think as you do WILL, certainly, die, and murder others. Covid is real. I don't deny that. I deny the false assertion that it is an automatic death sentence. It is one of many, many illnesses that can exacerbate other pre-existing conditions to the point of ending life, and even very, very rarely be fatal on its own. It is more contagious than most flus. It also, in the vast majority of cases, presents either completely asymptomatically or with only very mild symptoms with a full recovery. Those are the facts, without hyperbole or hysteria.

 

[Bob Noel]

My friend in immunology at Hopkins says current vaccine work is successful at reducing symptoms, but not so much at "sterilizing immunity."

any other sources for that?

To be fair, it's probably too early to definitively assess immunity.

 

[Lindberg]

Yup. So far. I personally know someone who had that attitude and died a slow painful death prone in an ICU. And a simple google of "covid denier dies" will show you plenty more. If that's not enough, there are plenty of covid deniers who got mild cases, survived, but killed loved ones.

Belief in COVID doesn't seem to provide salvation either.

 

[murphey]

Wife got her first Shingrix and seasonal flu at the same time last week. Reactions to one or both laid her low for 3 days. Injection site for the Shingrix is much more sore, and has a red spot the size of a baseball. Net result, getting both at the same time is probably not the way to go.

Very true. I got the flu shot 3 months after Shingrix #2.

 

[X3 Skier]

My friend in immunology at Hopkins says current vaccine work is successful at reducing symptoms, but not so much at "sterilizing immunity." Thus, positivity rates would stay the same, although hospitalization and death rates should go down. I wonder how that will influence government mandates.

Interesting comment. It has not been at all clear to me what it means when the report is the Pfizer Vaccine is 90% effective. It could mean that in the 90+ cases the effectiveness is based on, 9 who were vaccinated showed no symptoms but were infected or had mild symptoms or had some symptoms but not hospitalized while the non vaccinated others showed no symptoms but were infected or had mild symptoms or severe symptoms or were hospitalized or even died. If I could remember my Permutations and Combinations math, I could figure the many ways it "could" be assessed. I'll have to ask on my next visit to the test center.

However it is assessed, one can count on the mainstream media to get it wrong. My local Paper said both the Pfizer and Moderna "...require storage below -90 Fahrenheit." Moderna is stored around -5F.

Cheers

 

[GaryM]

Wife got her first Shingrix and seasonal flu at the same time last week. Reactions to one or both laid her low for 3 days. Injection site for the Shingrix is much more sore, and has a red spot the size of a baseball. Net result, getting both at the same time is probably not the way to go.

I count myself lucky--I had virtually no reaction to the Shingrix shots. I did receive the older Zostavax shingles vaccine years back, but I don't know if that had a desensitizing effect.

 

[Everskyward]

I count myself lucky--I had virtually no reaction to the Shingrix shots. I did receive the older Zostavax shingles vaccine years back, but I don't know if that had a desensitizing effect.

Same here. My arm was only slightly sore for a day after both Shingrix shots. I’ve had flu shots for about 20 years without an adverse reaction, or the flu. But before that, I never had the shot or the flu either, at least not that I can recall. I’ll get the COVID shot when offered, but I know I’m not exactly in a vulnerable group, so I doubt it will be soon. Old, but not old enough. I signed up to be a possible guinea pig, but the only request I got were for people over 70. I also didn’t want to jeopardize my recent vacation, now past.

 

[kyleb]

Wife got her first Shingrix and seasonal flu at the same time last week. Reactions to one or both laid her low for 3 days. Injection site for the Shingrix is much more sore, and has a red spot the size of a baseball. Net result, getting both at the same time is probably not the way to go.

I got em both about 3 weeks ago. Both arms sore for 24 hours- sore enough that i didn’t sleep well the first night. But after the 24 hour period, all soreness was gone.

It is really interesting how different people have such varying reactions to things.

 

[Zeldman]

Mine was in the arm. Mild pain after the first, much worse after the second. First was like the flu shot.

That is good to hear.



Because I don't sit on my arm.....

 

[Everskyward]

It is really interesting how different people have such varying reactions to things.

Like COVID itself...

 

[weilke]

The reaction to the shingrix shot certainly beats having the real thing.

 

[catmandu]

any other sources for that?

Not really, which is so frustrating about all this.

Months ago I gave up on information filtered through the media. Even trying to track down details of the information they were reporting via the source (when provided) proved difficult. Official public comment is being held close to the vest.

So at this point casual conversation on the street with someone I respect is as good as I've got, sorry.

 

[Bob Noel]

...
So at this point casual conversation on the street with someone I respect is as good as I've got, sorry.

yeah, I understand... and I mean no disrespect.

 

[flyingron]

I assume that's tongue-in-cheek but lest it scare anyone off...they do allow it to warm to room temperature shortly before injection.

When they mean "right before injection" they don't mean to the minute. The things are packed in dry ice for transport and can either remain in the shipper if you keep replacing the dry ice or you store it in a vaccine freezer (which is not an unheard-of device) and can last a few days in normal refrigerators.

 

[Jamie Kirk]

Had COVID, tested positive for the antibodies. Thought they said the antibodies were only good for a few months? Do they expect people to get the vaccine shot every month?

 

[GaryM]

Had COVID, tested positive for the antibodies. Thought they said the antibodies were only good for a few months? Do they expect people to get the vaccine shot every month?

No, not at all. It's not fully understood how long the immunity will last (and there are two components, the antibodies which are easy to test for, and the T-cells, which are hard to test for--so little testing is done for those right now).

Most of the discussion I'm hearing is whether a vaccine, be it early-generation, or one of the better ones that will follow--will provide lifetime immunity, multi-year immunity, or if it will have to be given yearly, like the flu vaccine. I've not heard speculation that it could work for less than a year.

 

[James_Dean]

Have you actually met anyone who is "asymtomaic". I haven't. I've met lots of COVID sufferers by now, and not even one of them has been asymptomatic. All have had high fevers and pretty nasty sickness. The "mildest" I've heard about the high fever only lasted one night. Go ahead, get infected. You are playing Russian roulette with your health and the health of anyone with whom yo interact while you're giving off viral particles with every breath.

I have to be cautious here, but do have some anecdotal input. We had one location where everyone was PCR tested on the same day. They were all given a health questionnaire, and given a health screening by a health care professional including temp. 100% were asymptomatic, yet we had +20% positive tests out of roughly 100 people. Just one data point, but operating a large business through this pandemic has given me lots of data. This is a scary disease, but I am 100% convinced that there are people who will test PCR positive, but will never have a symptom. Now, whether that is due to Ct values being used, some other unknown factor, or whether those people are spreaders is a different question.

FWIW, I will be getting the vaccine when available.

 

[PaulS]

Elon Musk says he was tested 4 times in the same day for Covid, 2 came back positive and 2 came back negative. Rapid angen test from BD, according to him.


https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472?s=20

 

[bdtaz]

No, not at all. It's not fully understood how long the immunity will last (and there are two components, the antibodies which are easy to test for, and the T-cells, which are hard to test for--so little testing is done for those right now).

Most of the discussion I'm hearing is whether a vaccine, be it early-generation, or one of the better ones that will follow--will provide lifetime immunity, multi-year immunity, or if it will have to be given yearly, like the flu vaccine. I've not heard speculation that it could work for less than a year.

Best study I have seen is here: https://uahs.arizona.edu/news/uariz...ars-cov-2-antibodies-provide-lasting-immunity

"They found SARS-CoV-2 antibodies are present in blood tests at viable levels for at least five to seven months, although they believe immunity lasts much longer."

"If SARS-CoV-2 is anything like the first one, we expect antibodies to last at least two years, and it would be unlikely for anything much shorter.”"

 

[denverpilot]

Not really, which is so frustrating about all this.

Months ago I gave up on information filtered through the media. Even trying to track down details of the information they were reporting via the source (when provided) proved difficult. Official public comment is being held close to the vest.

So at this point casual conversation on the street with someone I respect is as good as I've got, sorry.

Never seen them ever get an airplane crash story right.

Not too surprised they’ll never ever get Covid right.

That expectation that many have without even a single thought toward how bad media coverage is of their own profession, is a significant part of the problem.

Apply what we already know about them covering far simpler things...

They’ll do a summary documentary in a couple of years, and then give themselves a Pulitzer for it all, as usual.

Kinda like the local airport manager winning an award from another government agency a few days ago. LOL. “Government says government is doing a great job!”

Nice guy and all and doing a fine job, I just laugh at the mutual back-patting by non-customers. Ha.

 

[denverpilot]

Best study
I have seen is here: https://uahs.arizona.edu/news/uariz...ars-cov-2-antibodies-provide-lasting-immunity

"They found SARS-CoV-2 antibodies are present in blood tests at viable levels for at least five to seven months, although they believe immunity lasts much longer."

"If SARS-CoV-2 is anything like the first one, we expect antibodies to last at least two years, and it would be unlikely for anything much shorter.”"

I assume ... the lawyers at Karen’s hospital are making the Docs say “200 days” at discharge now.

Not a flipping clue what they’re basing that on, and they didn’t share with staff. But just another data point for the group here.

And the warning that the lawyers are now writing the script. You thought the media was bad...

(The lawyers are also internally at odds with the Docs and Nurses over stuff like PPE use and would mandate full hazmat suits for everyone if they could get it. Liability you know... yep, it’s going to go full on stupid now.)

 

[danhagan]

Have you actually met anyone who is "asymtomaic".

Yes, I get to meet at least 5-10 per week in my line of work

Just got an apology call on one of them from last week ... county contact tracing at best lets me know about a month after the fact if at all

 

[denverpilot]

Just got an apology call on one of them from last week ... county contact tracing at best lets me know about a month after the fact if at all

LOL. That’s like our locals in the big city threatening closures two weeks after Karen’s hospital saw a bump and has already dropped back to nothingburger numbers again.

I joked with a friend that it feels like the world is returning to normal with government always being a day late and a dollar short, just like things used to be.

Entities as brilliant as the DMV, handling Covid.

Again, kinda like expecting the press to ever get anything right, expecting government to not be weeks behind... doesn’t match what we already knew.

Dump the expectation back to the usual level of ineptitude and all of a sudden things make sense again, and all is right in the world. Haha.

Not kidding really. Ever been pulled over with a full felony stop multiple times in two months because the DMV processed every one of your license plate renewals wrong?

There ya go. That’s the level of service to truly expect.

Anything beyond that? Gravy.

 

[EdFred]

Until mom and dad got it, everyone I knew that tested positive was asymptomatic. They only reason they had a test was because someone they were in contact with tested positive - and that person was also asymptomatic, and only tested because they were exposed to someone who has it.

And it effects EVERYONE different, but seems like people want to take a 1 size fits all approach to it.

A friend's mother in law tested positive - she's 100 years old and had zero symptoms.

My grandmother tested positive - 95 years old and only had a fever for a day and a half or so, and back to normal.

Dad (late 60's) was in the hospital for 6 days and still on on O2 at home - and he never gets sick.

Mom (won't say her age or else I will have my brake lines cut) was knocked on her ass for about 4 days, but was back to 95% within a week, and 100% after another week. And mom is the one that always has some sort of bronchitis type illness almost every winter - we figured she'd be the one in the hospital.

2 guys I know, mid 20's - one had to go the hospital, one tested positive and had no symptoms.

All other cases I know about personally are little to zero symptoms, and only got a test because they were in contact with someone else who tested positive.

I still take the herd of wildebeest approach, and you sometimes it's just your time.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

k. well, I'm still not getting either shot. I hear when some people get the flu shot they actually get the flu. but wtf do I know.

Oh my god, I can’t believe that anyone qualified to fly an airplane could still think a vaccine can give you the virus it is protecting you from. Seriously? These things (vaccines) have been around in some form since the 10th century (China and later in the cowpox/smallpox European experiments) and in their modern form since 1880. I hate to say it, but man the anti-vaxxers really messed some people up.

 

[Lindberg]

Oh my god, I can’t believe that anyone qualified to fly an airplane could still think a vaccine can give you the virus it is protecting you from. Seriously? These things (vaccines) have been around in some form since the 10th century (China and later in the cowpox/smallpox European experiments) and in their modern form since 1880. I hate to say it, but man the anti-vaxxers really messed some people up.

You know there have been vaccines that can give you the virus they protect you from, right? The oral polio vaccine, which is still in use, is one such vaccine.

 

[bbchien]

Oh my god, I can’t believe that anyone qualified to fly an airplane could still think a vaccine can give you the virus it is protecting you from. Seriously? These things (vaccines) have been around in some form since the 10th century (China and later in the cowpox/smallpox European experiments) and in their modern form since 1880. I hate to say it, but man the anti-vaxxers really messed some people up.

Tho I generally agree, google “cutter polio lot #3” and see what you get (1955). However the Pfizer vaccine has no such possibility, not that from Moderna.

we will see.....l

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Live attenuated virus, killed virus and biosyntheyic virus vaccines are different processes. You can't really paint all "vaccines" with the same broad brush. I recall a period where a batch of live virus equine vaccines caused "strangles" disease in some horses. For that reason we only use those manufactured with killed virus. I think the covid will be the first widely distributed biosynthetic. Miraculous stuff, if it works as advertised.

I see it as coming out of the clubhouse turn and into the back stretch at this point. Not heading to the window to cash my ticket quite yet.

 

[X3 Skier]

Since I have received the Moderna Vaccine (he says with 98% certainty), it hasn’t given me the virus since it’s impossible. Of course I may get it from somebody else but as I said at the start of this thread, I’m following all the recommendations.

Maybe I’ll be issued a forehead stamp “V” if the Moderna version is approved .

Cheers

 

[danhagan]

A friend's mother in law tested positive - she's 100 years old and had zero symptoms. My grandmother tested positive - 95 years old and only had a fever for a day and a half or so, and back to normal.

Am glad they're doing well, those are scary ages to be exposed ... thumbs up!

Oh my god, I can’t believe that anyone qualified to fly an airplane could still think a vaccine can give you the virus it is protecting you from. Seriously? These things (vaccines) have been around in some form since the 10th century (China and later in the cowpox/smallpox European experiments) and in their modern form since 1880. I hate to say it, but man the anti-vaxxers really messed some people up.

Before racing out of the barn: One of the vaccines may give you intense flu like symptoms for 4 days which is your immune system's response to the vaccine, not that you have Covid. The H1N1 Swine vaccine pushed by Obama-Biden had some adverse effects (death) in limited populations ... review and research each of the vaccines prior to committing.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Before racing out of the barn: One of the vaccines may give you intense flu like symptoms for 4 days which is your immune system's response to the vaccine, not that you have Covid.

Which vaccine? If you know one of them might give these symptoms, you know its name and manufacturer. Good citations are useful.

The H1N1 Swine vaccine pushed by Obama-Biden had some adverse effects (death) in limited populations ... review and research each of the vaccines prior to committing.

Which H1N1? The 1976 or the 2009 one? Ignoring the implied political bull**** in your post, I'm pretty sure the medical industry has learned from that and are looking for similar adverse effects now.

 

[steingar]

Tho I generally agree, google “cutter polio lot #3” and see what you get (1955). However the Pfizer vaccine has no such possibility, not that from Moderna.

we will see.....l

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are cut from the same cloth, they’re just different proprietary formulations. The vaccine I worry about is the one from Astra Zeneca. I won’t take it under any circumstances.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are cut from the same cloth, they’re just different proprietary formulations. The vaccine I worry about is the one from Astra Zeneca. I won’t take it under any circumstances.

Do tell.

 

[steingar]

All three vaccines deliver an mRNA (messenger RNA). Normally, these are the directions copied from DNA to make proteins. These vaccines all deliver mRNAs encoding part of the COVID virus. The idea is the cells make and secrete the virus, and your immune system reacts against it.

The rub with the Astra Zeneca vaccine is it is delivered by a gene therapy vector. This is a virus which is used to deliver therapeutics on a cellular level.The viral vector, derived from the Adeno Associated Virus (AAV) is harmless, it can’t cause disease. It can deliver a gene for a viral component like the other vaccines. The difference is the other vaccines won’t persist in cells very long. The viral vector will, possibly long after the immune system has reacted to the produced viral component. At that point you have cels making viral stuff against which you’re immune. Could result in autoimmunity.

I’d rather have COVID.

 

[denverpilot]

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are cut from the same cloth, they’re just different proprietary formulations. The vaccine I worry about is the one from Astra Zeneca. I won’t take it under any circumstances.

Is that the one from the UK being investigated as a possible source of Transverse Myelitis in two patients that was fully halted?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Is that the one from the UK being investigated as a possible source of Transverse Myelitis in two patients that was fully halted?

Yes, but there's not enough data available to show causation, not enough data to disprove it either IMO.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02706-6

 

[denverpilot]

Yes, but there's not enough data available to show causation, not enough data to disprove it either IMO.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02706-6

Doesn’t matter. You don’t want ANY chance of TM for a vaccine against a 99% survivable virus. Been in multiple TM groups since my misdiagnosis. Want hell on earth, get diagnosed with TM.

Symptoms of my disorder are nearly identical and I’m waaaaaay into the low-symptoms / lucky side of those, and I was headed for a wheelchair. And mine was treatable. TM usually isn’t.

That’s one big damn “nope” right there. Just as the Professor said. Screw that.

Even a chance of triggering an autoimmune reaction that attacks the central nervous system, to feel happier about a 99% survivable disease, is pure unadulterated and undeniably stupid.

Stick to the ones that don’t do that.

 

[danhagan]

Which vaccine? If you know one of them might give these symptoms, you know its name and manufacturer. Good citations are useful.

Heard it on the radio, but there are a million links like the one below if you want to plow through a ton of recent releases:

https://www.ibtimes.com/pfizer-coro...-more-severe-i-thought-volunteer-says-3081460

Which H1N1? The 1976 or the 2009 one? Ignoring the implied political bull**** in your post, I'm pretty sure the medical industry has learned from that and are looking for similar adverse effects now.

Same as above Jack ... just search on 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu reactions, not that hard, not political either except maybe to you ...

 

[JOhnH]

Have you actually met anyone who is "asymtomaic". I haven't. I've met lots of COVID sufferers by now, and not even one of them has been asymptomatic.

Maybe that's because if they are suffering from it, they are by definition "not asymptomatic". Conversely, if they are asymptomatic, they are not suffering from it and they (and you) probably don't even know they have it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Heard it on the radio, but there are a million links like the one below if you want to plow through a ton of recent releases:

https://www.ibtimes.com/pfizer-coro...-more-severe-i-thought-volunteer-says-3081460

I believe everything I hear on the radio </sarcasm> Only one person. One person from how many tested?
From that source:

"I had some side effects. A lot of injection site pain ... I haven't had coronavirus, so that's a good thing," Deshields told Fox News.

Depending on the trial, that person probably doesn't know what injection they were given. Maybe had a reaction to the placebo.

Same as above Jack ... just search on 2009 H1N1 Swine Flu reactions, not that hard, not political either except maybe to you ...

Those are the same reactions as the 1976 vaccines, also H1N1 influenza. https://www.livescience.com/21504-swine-flu-vaccine-nerve-disorder-gbs.html
There was no need to inject any names, and that is what made it political. The inclusion of the names did nothing to support or refute whatever point you were trying to make.