Covid vaccine question

Briar Rabbit

Briar Rabbit

Line Up and Wait
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Albion, Nebraska
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Rob
I just received the Moderna vaccine, first shot this afternoon. One of my customers wants me to visit his factory in 13 days for a meeting on a large million dollar project. It is a large manufacturing plant and they have had some issues with covid break outs in the past but nothing recently that I know of. I will appreciate it if the doctors and professionals will give me your recommendations. I have read that considerable antibodies are generated at 16 days. If I do cross paths with someone that has the bug during the visit will I have enough antibodies in my system by the time the virus replicates in my body to prevent serious illness?
Thanks in advance for your responses!
 
You have about 60% protection at that point.

Wear your mask, keep your distance. You'll be fine.

Probably.
 
In my opinion, you could always double the mask to improve YOUR protection. The CDC states that the purpose of the mask is to prevent you from spreading it to others via breath droplets. The N95 mask would give you and others protection agains the virus. I am not a Dr. but have been working throughout this entire time and have had to continue to modify our protections for our employees (doesn't necessarily qualify me for anything).
 
frfly172 said:
Don’t drop your guard because you have the first shot.
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We had our second shots last week. We still haven't completely dropped our guard, but we did go out to eat at a restaurant the other day; inside! We wore masks on the way in and out, and we used hand sanitizer after touching the menus. It was really nice after almost a year of my home cooking or take-out.
 
JOhnH said:
We had our second shots last week. We still haven't completely dropped our guard, but we did go out to eat at a restaurant the other day; inside! We wore masks on the way in and out, and we used hand sanitizer after touching the menus. It was really nice after almost a year of my home cooking or take-out.
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Is there a waiting period after the second shot? I don't suppose it's immediately effective right after it goes into your arm...
 
I have had dozens of nursing home residents contract COVID after their first shot. Not suggesting that the a vaccine caused it. But just bad timing of the outbreak at that facility. Bad timing made worse as we had to treat some with monoclonal antibody therapy so now they have to wait 90 days for second shot. Most did well. Some did quite poorly.
The false sense of security after first shot is a huge mistake imo..and experience.
 
A factory? With lots of space between workers and a lot of air movement? No worries. That's our environment and we've had no transmission while on the plant floor.

OTOH, you could be in a factory where the space you'll be in is closed with poor ventilation. Much larger risk if you're sharing that space with an infected person.
 
Had my second shot Monday,they said you should not relax your precautions for another 14 days.
 
frfly172 said:
Had my second shot Monday,they said you should not relax your precautions for another 14 days.
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They actually implied that precautions could be relaxed (after 14 days)?

I'm surprised since we hear a lot about needing to continue the masks/distance/etc protocols indefinitely...

(I'm assuming you are in Florida this time of year...)
 
I've been wearing an N95 when out of the house since March. Despite the politics, it didn't take too much research to realize this was transmitted almost entirely by microscopic droplets that are well within the range of the N95. I actually got crap locally for doing so early (and occasionally even today).

I'll continue even after my Fauci Ouchi until the general population settles down.
 
If I were in your shoes, I’d just wear your mask and go about your business. With the first shot, Moderna says you have ~80% immunity, but only after 14 days from the time of inoculation. The second dose brings it up to about 95%.

While we’re on this topic again, I received my second dose on Monday. Felt like I was ran over by a semi on Tuesday morning. Worst symptom was a bad headache that lasted for about 24hrs, but I definitely don’t regret getting it now!
 
asicer said:
Is there a waiting period after the second shot? I don't suppose it's immediately effective right after it goes into your arm...
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Believe it’s 2 weeks after the second shot for Moderna to achieve the max immunity.

It’s 7 days after shot 2 of Pfizer.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
I just received the Moderna vaccine, first shot this afternoon. One of my customers wants me to visit his factory in 13 days for a meeting on a large million dollar project. It is a large manufacturing plant and they have had some issues with covid break outs in the past but nothing recently that I know of. I will appreciate it if the doctors and professionals will give me your recommendations. I have read that considerable antibodies are generated at 16 days. If I do cross paths with someone that has the bug during the visit will I have enough antibodies in my system by the time the virus replicates in my body to prevent serious illness?
Thanks in advance for your responses!
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How will you get there? Is it local or do you have to travel?

If you have to travel, can you fly yourself?

How is the meeting going to be conducted? Large room with everyone wearing masks, or lunch meeting?

As has been pointed out, you’ll have some immunity by that point, but by no means immune.

Bottom line is that like anything in life, there is risk involved. You need to make some risk management decisions based on what level of unmitigated risk you are willing to accept.
 
Fearless Tower said:
How will you get there? Is it local or do you have to travel?

If you have to travel, can you fly yourself?

How is the meeting going to be conducted? Large room with everyone wearing masks, or lunch meeting?

As has been pointed out, you’ll have some immunity by that point, but by no means immune.

Bottom line is that like anything in life, there is risk involved. You need to make some risk management decisions based on what level of unmitigated risk you are willing to accept.
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Easy one hour drive.
Meeting in the factory beside a production line initially followed by a conference room setting with about 10 participants in a rather small room for one to two hours. Old dirty metal manufacturing factory with poor housekeeping.
Three of the participants travel frequently on airlines. Some but not all of the participants have had Covid this fall.
At almost 70 I will be the oldest participant by about 20 years and likely the most prone to a serious outcome if transmitted.
From my online research the Moderna Vaccine typically provides 65% protection at 16 days after the first vaccination. And reduces serious consequences substantially. I can not find a graph that suggests the protection at 13 days? Or if exposed how long it takes to replicate inside the human body and what the antibody level will be at that additional time frame? Monetarily it has the potential to be quite rewarding but not worth dying for!
For those making suggestion please indicate if you are a doctor, health professional or just providing your personal opinions. But all thoughts are appreciated. I try to actively support my customers and it is tough for me to sit this one out!
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Easy one hour drive.
Meeting in the factory beside a production line initially followed by a conference room setting with about 10 participants in a rather small room for one to two hours. Old dirty metal manufacturing factory with poor housekeeping.
Three of the participants travel frequently on airlines. Some but not all of the participants have had Covid this fall.
At almost 70 I will be the oldest participant by about 20 years and likely the most prone to a serious outcome if transmitted.
From my online research the Moderna Vaccine typically provides 65% protection at 16 days after the first vaccination. And reduces serious consequences substantially. I can not find a graph that suggests the protection at 13 days? Or if exposed how long it takes to replicate inside the human body and what the antibody level will be at that additional time frame? Monetarily it has the potential to be quite rewarding but not worth dying for!
For those making suggestion please indicate if you are a doctor, health professional or just providing your personal opinions. But all thoughts are appreciated. I try to actively support my customers and it is tough for me to sit this one out!
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If it were me, I’d say no, or request to delay until after you’ve had shot 2, but don’t know your personal business situation/implications

I am not a healthcare professional.
I am a DOD ‘essential employee’ and have been full time on the job as a simulator instructor working within 6 feet of students since this mess began. I personally wouldn’t be comfortable with the circumstances you’ve described and I’m 47.
 
Geezer here, older than you. No healthcare experience except as a frequent recipient and a daughter in the business. On the plus side, you can be sure to eat healthy (minimize fried meat, etc. but get plenty of veggies/fruit) to get your pH balance in good order. Vitamin D and Zinc supplements recommended by some docs. Wear a real N95 mask or if you can't find one, wear two layers of masks. Carry pocket sized bottle of hand sanitizer with you and use it often. Don't touch your face. All these, plus the first Moderna dose and you should be fine, ordinarily. And if you do catch Covid, ask for a "BAM" infusion at the first onset of symptoms. Don't take no for an answer.

However, with that small tightly packed room I would say no, even with all the precautions listed above. Consider FaceTime, Zoom, Teams, or the like to put you there virtually. As always YMMV. Good luck!
 
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N95 mask availability has loosened up. Even some of the local Lowe's has had them. They've had KN95s for a while. I grabbed a couple of 10-packs from ULINE.COM as well.

And if you do catch Covid, ask for a "BAM" infusion at the first onset of symptoms. Don't take no for an answer.
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Is that the Dr. Emiril Lagasse treatment?
 
flyingron said:
N95 mask availability has loosened up. Even some of the local Lowe's has had them. They've had KN95s for a while. I grabbed a couple of 10-packs from ULINE.COM as well.


Is that the Dr. Emiril Lagasse treatment?
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No. It is something else entirely. There are at least two different types of infusions. I am familiar with AL and TN giving them, with BAM being predominant. Interesting that more folks aren't aware of this.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...orizes-monoclonal-antibody-treatment-covid-19
 
Piperonca said:
No. It is something else entirely. There are at least two different types of infusions. I am familiar with AL and TN giving them, with BAM being predominant. Interesting that more folks aren't aware of this.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...orizes-monoclonal-antibody-treatment-covid-19
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I am familiar with the monoclonal treatment. Only downside to it I see is they will not give you the second vaccination until 90 days have passed from the treatment. I hate to drag this out any further than necessary.
I have been taking 5,000 IU per day of D3 for months. Also take 5 mg of melatonin. Don't take zinc supplements. Have an untreated A1C of 6.7 typically (no soda pop or ice cream anymore) and a BMI of about 30-31.
 
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Nub_Pilot said:
In my opinion, you could always double the mask to improve YOUR protection.
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flyingron said:
N95 mask availability has loosened up.
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I'm medical and have been around a LOT of Covid patients. Tested absolute ZERO antibodies last week prior to first vaccine. I attribute it to double masking with an N-95 TIGHT covered with a Class 3 over the top. One facility I was worked in November with 10 other workers, ALL were infected except me ... I was the only one double masked, and they weren't using N95s, Class 3 only (even though they were available) complaining that it was more difficult to breathe.

Double mask and be careful if you absolutely must attend ...
 
Fearless Tower said:
Believe it’s 2 weeks after the second shot for Moderna to achieve the max immunity.

It’s 7 days after shot 2 of Pfizer.
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The fact sheet I was given by the health dept after getting my Pfizer shot last week says:

"...a week or two after your second shot."
 
The vaccines are very, very good at preventing severe illness. What the boys said. If this is important to you go. Mask up, distance as best you can. If you get the 'rona, it shouldn't be so bad.
 
EdFred said:
The fact sheet I was given by the health dept after getting my Pfizer shot last week says:

"...a week or two after your second shot."
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Maybe they gave the Navy a better shot?

Then again, the Navy just prescribes Motrin for everything else, so my source might not be the most accurate
 
flyingron said:
N95 mask availability has loosened up. Even some of the local Lowe's has had them. They've had KN95s for a while. I grabbed a couple of 10-packs from ULINE.COM as well.
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I already had a stockpile of N95s; turns out that ready.gov supply list wasn't all bad... KF94s are also good.
 
asicer said:
Is there a waiting period after the second shot? I don't suppose it's immediately effective right after it goes into your arm...
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You should have full protection in about 7 days after the second injection with the mRNA vaccines. Antibodies begin generation about 3-4 days after injection. Phase 1 trial data shows that the first dose does not provide robust antibody titers in most individuals, typically less than convalescent patients for those under 65, and hardly any useful protection for those over 65. In short the efficacy of the first dose is highly age-dependent, and quite variable among individuals. After the second dose, ALL individuals in the Phase 1 trials had antibody and T-cell titers much, much higher than for convalescent patients. Some by an order of magnitude or more.

It would be safe to assume that you have little or no protection after only one dose of the mRNA vaccines.
 
Johnson & Johnson just asked for emergency use. So our rediculous news media anounced that it is 100% effective at preventing "hospitalizations." Some other statistics thrown in to confuse the issue. So J&J's vaccine only takes one dose. Great. But does it do as well as the Moderna or Phfizer vacine as protecting you? I know there are totally different technologies at work here. But if you have a choice, witch one? You could get the Chinese vaccine, or the Indian vaccine. They work in different ways. There is something like 40 different vaccines in the works world wide. The Moderna and Phfizer are the only RNA ones if I'm understanding that correctly.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Johnson & Johnson just asked for emergency use. So our rediculous news media anounced that it is 100% effective at preventing "hospitalizations." Some other statistics thrown in to confuse the issue. So J&J's vaccine only takes one dose. Great. But does it do as well as the Moderna or Phfizer vacine as protecting you? I know there are totally different technologies at work here. But if you have a choice, witch one? You could get the Chinese vaccine, or the Indian vaccine. They work in different ways. There is something like 40 different vaccines in the works world wide. The Moderna and Phfizer are the only RNA ones if I'm understanding that correctly.
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Have you actually looked at their data? At day 28 post vaccination there were zero hospitalizations for COVID in their study patients. How else would you suggest the “ridiculous (spelled correctly BTW) news media” to report it?
Witch [sic] one indeed...
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Johnson & Johnson just asked for emergency use. So our rediculous news media anounced that it is 100% effective at preventing "hospitalizations." Some other statistics thrown in to confuse the issue. So J&J's vaccine only takes one dose. Great. But does it do as well as the Moderna or Phfizer vacine as protecting you? I know there are totally different technologies at work here. But if you have a choice, witch one? You could get the Chinese vaccine, or the Indian vaccine. They work in different ways. There is something like 40 different vaccines in the works world wide. The Moderna and Phfizer are the only RNA ones if I'm understanding that correctly.
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I haven't seen the summary data report that they'll submit with the EUA application, so I've no idea yet how it breaks out across age groups and risk factors. They report 72% overall efficacy in the US, 66% worldwide, though a lot of their trial participants were in South Africa, and the strain that showed up there after the trial started is a little harder to control. So, efficacy numbers are lower than Pfizer and Moderna, and probably in the same ballpark as AstraZeneca (though their data is still confusing). But, preventing hospitalizations is still a big win.

J&J may also be in the same efficacy range as the Russian and Chinese vaccines, but it's hard to be sure. There hasn't been as much data released on those, and so skepticism persists.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
Johnson & Johnson just asked for emergency use. So our rediculous news media anounced that it is 100% effective at preventing "hospitalizations." Some other statistics thrown in to confuse the issue. So J&J's vaccine only takes one dose. Great. But does it do as well as the Moderna or Phfizer vacine as protecting you? I know there are totally different technologies at work here. But if you have a choice, witch one? You could get the Chinese vaccine, or the Indian vaccine. They work in different ways. There is something like 40 different vaccines in the works world wide. The Moderna and Phfizer are the only RNA ones if I'm understanding that correctly.
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It is difficult to directly compare the Phase 3 trial readouts for Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J vaccines, because they were tested with different populations, at different times, in a different environment of viral strains. I think the encouraging thing to take away is that all three vaccines are highly protective against severe disease, hospitalization, and death. That's the goal. This year, no one is going to get a choice of which vaccine to get. If you can get any of them, you should avail yourself to maximize your protection against long-term morbidity and mortality. We are going to learn a lot more as we collect longer term data on Phase 3 volunteers, as well as the inoculated population moving forward.

A second bit of good news is a study of the AstraZeneca vaccine shows that it significantly slows transmission. This is a result that was not predicted based on preclinical viral challenge studies in macaques.
 
chemgeek said:
A second bit of good news is a study of the AstraZeneca vaccine shows that it significantly slows transmission.
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source/link?

(not doubting, but am curious...)
 
chemgeek said:
... I think the encouraging thing to take away is that all three vaccines are highly protective against severe disease, hospitalization, and death. That's the goal....
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Apparently the effectiveness percentages being reported for the various vaccines are based on how well they prevent any cases, not just severe ones. For prevention of severe cases, the results are much better.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/briefing/vaccination-myanmar-coup-rochester-police.html

"...all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot...."
 
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Palmpilot said:
Apparently the effectiveness percentages being reported for the various vaccines are based on how well they prevent any cases, not just severe ones. For prevention of severe cases, the results are much better.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/briefing/vaccination-myanmar-coup-rochester-police.html

"...all five of the vaccines — from Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Novavax and Johnson & Johnson — look extremely good. Of the roughly 75,000 people who have received one of the five in a research trial, not a single person has died from Covid, and only a few people appear to have been hospitalized. None have remained hospitalized 28 days after receiving a shot...."
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Correct. I can personally verify that if you are in a Phase 3 trial, if you so much as get the sniffles after receiving your first dose, you get swabbed to determine if it is COVID or something else. I've already been swabbed once (actually three times, because you have to get a community swab as well as a study swab, plus the community swab also includes a flu test swabbing.). I apparently just had an ordinary, everyday cold. The COVID vaccine doesn't prevent that. :( But only one cold and no flu in the last 365 days is pretty impressive. That's what distancing and mask mitigation will do for you...
 
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