Covid-19 shelter-in-place rules and GA

DFH65 said:
Can you document that? In order for it to be a misdemeanor it would need to have a basis in law. Not saying it doesn't by the way.
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I don’t know where the authority or legal precedent comes from, but I know that the governor mentioned that failure to abide by these rules would be considered a misdemeanor, and that fines or even jail time could result. A similar statement is in the website where this information was announced. But again, not sure about it’s legal power.

the $400 fine story I heard is from a friend, so I can’t verify it’s authenticity. They claim their friend was out walking within 6 feet of another person they don’t live with, and got fined by a police officer. It seems believable, it I don’t know if it is true.
 
CharlieD3 said:
Flight in a personal aircraft IS social distancing. EXTREME social distancing, enforced by the FARs.

1000 feet vertically from a congested area.
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This is basically exactly why I suspect flying is both safe and legal right now. I just wanna confirm a bit more. Before I go to the airport and have to explain myself to an officer of the law. Given that our airport has a lounge we encourage police to use, I AM going to encounter them, and I’m uncertain of how that interaction is going to go and if some of the cheeky “solutions” provided in this thread will work.

But for all I know, they don’t give a **** and will completely ignore me.
 
DFH65 said:
Can they stop me from getting groceries? Can they tell me where to buy groceries? Can the tell me what route I need to take to the store? I live in a very rural area the local grocery often has not the greatest fresh food. The next closest decent grocery in any direction is at least 30 minutes away.

ETA: not saying we shouldn't reduce contact with people but there is no reason on earth short of them shutting down the airspace that my wife and I shouldn't be able to drive to our hanger and take our plane out for a ride. There is no risk of exposure to anyone.
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We are allowed to go out for exercise and other “essential reasons.” And I’m in agreement with you on flying here.
 
The order has the force of law and violation is a misdemeanor, so everyone claiming it's just a suggestion and isn't enforceable should stop spreading misinformation. Relevant sections of the California Emergency Services Act below (and these are called out in the Executive Order itself... might be a good idea to read something before you explain it to other people...)

8567.
(a) The Governor may make, amend, and rescind orders and regulations necessary to carry out the provisions of this chapter. The orders and regulations shall have the force and effect of law. Due consideration shall be given to the plans of the federal government in preparing the orders and regulations. The Governor shall cause widespread publicity and notice to be given to all such orders and regulations, or amendments or rescissions thereof.
(b) Orders and regulations, or amendments or rescissions thereof, issued during a state of war emergency or state of emergency shall be in writing and shall take effect immediately upon their issuance. Whenever the state of war emergency or state of emergency has been terminated, the orders and regulations shall be of no further force or effect.
(c) All orders and regulations relating to the use of funds pursuant to Article 16 (commencing with Section 8645) shall be prepared in advance of any commitment or expenditure of the funds. Other orders and regulations needed to carry out the provisions of this chapter shall, whenever practicable, be prepared in advance of a state of war emergency or state of emergency.
(d) All orders and regulations made in advance of a state of war emergency or state of emergency shall be in writing, shall be exempt from Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2. As soon thereafter as possible they shall be filed in the office of the Secretary of State and with the county clerk of each county.

8627. During a state of emergency the Governor shall, to the extent he deems necessary, have complete authority over all agencies of the state government and the right to exercise within the area designated all police power vested in the state by the Constitution and laws of the State of California in order to effectuate the purposes of this chapter. In exercise thereof, he shall promulgate, issue, and enforce such orders and regulations as he deems necessary, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8567.

8665. Any person who violates any of the provisions of this chapter or who refuses or willfully neglects to obey any lawful order or regulation promulgated or issued as provided in this chapter, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punishable by a fine of not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment for not to exceed six months or by both such fine and imprisonment.
 
I saw at least a dozen sailboats out on the bay this afternoon, and that was just at one glance.
 
joycem137 said:
the $400 fine story I heard is from a friend, so I can’t verify it’s authenticity. They claim their friend was out walking within 6 feet of another person they don’t live with, and got fined by a police officer. It seems believable, it I don’t know if it is true.
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I wonder... does the police officer in this sort of case fold the citation into a paper airplane and fly it to you over a distance of not less than 6 feet, or does he himself violate the same law by hand-delivering this ticket?
 
joycem137 said:
the $400 fine story I heard is from a friend, so I can’t verify it’s authenticity. They claim their friend was out walking within 6 feet of another person they don’t live with, and got fined by a police officer. It seems believable, it I don’t know if it is true.
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That seems completely unbelievable to me. For one thing, is the police officer going to go up to every set of people walking together and inquire as to where they live? The police have more important things to do than that. It's been a beautiful couple of days and there are plenty of couples and small groups of people out walking in parks, so if this was a thing, we would have heard more about it.
 
denverpilot said:
If you’re going up, at least start a TP smuggling ring with your pilot buddies.

Treetop flyer. Bringing that Charmin for the black market slow and low.

LOL! :)

Edit: autocorrect thinks you should snuggle TP not smuggle it.
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That’s a good thought. I could fit a lot of toilet paper in the Beech 18.

Now....where do I fly to get the TP. That is the question.....
 
asicer said:
Are dog shelters and Goodwill open during the shelter-in-place order?

I can see the food bank staying open, though.
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Some shelters (animal) are closed, some are open - if you're going to do this, call first.
 
Here is a very good and well researched article on California’s ‘Shelter in Place’ policy. It’s far from clear that it has force of law, but having said that I think probably the more important immediate point is that with the Governor wanting to demonstrate his personal power, and test his ability to do this sort of thing and establish a precedent, there is little chance he will attempt enforcement - because there are armies of people who would in that case challenge him. ‘Better’ to play it with a light hand, use people’s fear to demonstrate compliance, and get the precedent made for future use.

https://californiaglobe.com/section...wn-private-businesses-because-of-coronavirus/
 
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Good size flight school near me (8 planes?) and a friend operating a 1 CFII + 1 plane school
Are both shut down in Illinois.

Went from “by appt due to COVID19” last week to “Closed until April X. Contact owner at blah blah blah with questions.”

My friend /sole CFII proprietor was adamant they couldn’t fly.
 
I flew last week (local, didn't land anywhere else) but I do try to abide to the distance suggestion since i'm married to a doctor on the front lines seeing more cases every day. Fbo is still open, less activity but much more than no activity. I don't think the cops will mess with you, like others have said, they can't stop every car on the road to determine their intentions. And if they do you can play dumb, bluff you way out of it.
 
I thought Ca was emptying it's jails of non violent offenders and not arresting anyone for non violent crimes, where does the horrible crime of walking closer than 6' from someone fit into this?
 
lowtimer said:
I thought Ca was emptying it's jails of non violent offenders and not arresting anyone for non violent crimes, where does the horrible crime of walking closer than 6' from someone fit into this?
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All I can think of is the movie "The Purge". I can steal a car without being violent. Not sure how this will help.

In any case, I can still fly here in ATL. But I just cancelled the 2 day rental for my wife and I to go to Hilton Head. It's closed, and so are other places.
 
Now that NY and NJ are closed, the flight school I teach at has grounded all activities. I still plan on going out in my Bonanza for exercise but I worry about being able to get my annual done since it expires at the end of April.

edit: I'm also worried about paying for the annual since the economy is heading south.
 
I tried to go fly this afternoon. Reserved a plane, went to the airport and pre-flighted it. My wife wasn't comfortable with the winds (thought the flight might be bumpy), so I cancelled the reservation. The tower was open and several other aircraft were flying. So, while we are supposed to minimize contact with others, flying oneself is OK in Washington state.
 
Here is IL we are in the same type of “shelter at home” environment like in CA and N.Y. states.
Went flying around 7:30 am and while there was nobody up there at that hour - when I was about to land an hour later there were already plenty of people flying.
I don’t see any issues with people flying - more often than not when I go flying I don’t even get to talk to anyone, let alone interact with people.
The only potential problem would be with uhm ..crashing and then needing some medical help afterwards - I could imagine authorities making an argument that we are wasting medical resources badly needed somewhere else ( and this is the main argument used to ground all VFR GA flying in Europe)
 
I just flew today in NY and there were lots of people out enjoying the day. I spent my time as far away from people as possible (3500’). The local tower at KPOU was open and operating and three planes were in the pattern at the same time as I landed. NY approach was pretty dead (ok, I guess we can’t use that phrase right now - it was quiet), but still a few contacts here and there over an hour, that’s it.

But I fly from a private grass field, have 49 gals of mogas already there, so I don’t need to see another soul or even touch anything that isn’t mine (gas pump) to go flying. Totally clean.
 
lowtimer said:
I thought Ca was emptying it's jails of non violent offenders and not arresting anyone for non violent crimes, where does the horrible crime of walking closer than 6' from someone fit into this?
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They just had a positive test of a prison inmate. That could get really ugly fast.
 
Warmi said:
Right there your very first sentence ... you refer to yourself like a prisoner. Pretty depressing.
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Let's be honest...the whole situation is pretty depressing. That said, abiding by the order, while certainly not enforced (at this time) is something worth doing for the greater good. While there will always be people out there doing their own thing because "it's their constitutional right", times like these are when we need to consider circumstances greater than ourselves.
 
Yeah, it's not a law, and it's one of the essential jobs that the government will be needing if the situation got worse.
 
Has anyone else's fling club prohibited the use of club aircraft during these "lockdowns". My Illinois based club sent out a notification last week that club aircraft scheduling system will be blocked out until April 7th so no members can use them. I found this irritating on a variety of levels not the least of which is my general dislike of people making my decisions for me and the fact that I do work in an essential industry and have perfectly legitimate use of the aircraft that is now not allowed by the club board...
 
How is it possible that pilots are more about their constitutional rights than the fact this virus is a real killer and it could kill you. Go out and fly, get together in large numbers and protest the government orders, I will buy your aircraft for 10 cents on the dollar from your family after you are gone. This is the dumb leading the dumber, those who's rights are more important than their life, I can only hope more people take care of themselves and follow our leaders, or the condition of GA will be as dead as those who blow off the virus.
 
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brien23 said:
How is it possible that pilots are more about their constitutional rights than the fact this virus is a real killer and it could kill you. Go out and fly, get together in large numbers and protest the government orders, I will buy your aircraft for 10 cents on the dollar from your family after you are gone.
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Probably because as Americans, the Constitution is the law of the land. We don't suspend it just because there is something unpleasant occurring, otherwise we'd be suspending it all of the time. Since the data/statistics are somewhat poor at this point in the game, I don't know that I'd say the virus could kill us all in the state it's currently in. Obviously if you're over 60 and have underlying health conditions, you should try and steer clear for a while. There are lots of virus that can kill you, but we don't stop living because of it. No one is advocating that people not take proper precautions to limit the spread of the virus, especially to those who have minimal faculties to fight it off. However, when events like these occur, governments tend to enact knee-jerk legislation and abuse their authority as granted to them in the US Constitution. Sacrificing liberty in the name of safety is not acceptable.
 
Briantime said:
Has anyone else's fling club prohibited the use of club aircraft during these "lockdowns". My Illinois based club sent out a notification last week that club aircraft scheduling system will be blocked out until April 7th so no members can use them. I found this irritating on a variety of levels not the least of which is my general dislike of people making my decisions for me and the fact that I do work in an essential industry and have perfectly legitimate use of the aircraft that is now not allowed by the club board...
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Yikes. Nothing here as yet. Our club is pretty relaxed, and our area hasn't been hit very hard by the virus. I'd be unhappy if it's an equity club. Weather is lousy here, so no one's been up since Saturday.

brien23 said:
How is it possible that pilots are more about their constitutional rights than the fact this virus is a real killer and it could kill you. Go out and fly, get together in large numbers and protest the government orders, I will buy your aircraft for 10 cents on the dollar from your family after you are gone.
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Wipe down the yoke, go by yourself or with people you live with, where's the risk? I call the fueler on the radio, and my credit card's on file. I can easily go flying without coming within 20' of another human. Safer than going for months without flying and losing proficiency.
 
Also, keep in mind, when I fly I fly solo. I go out to my hangar and fly my plane, putting it away and driving home, with no contact with other people.
 
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brien23 said:
How is it possible that pilots are more about their constitutional rights than the fact this virus is a real killer and it could kill you. Go out and fly, get together in large numbers and protest the government orders, I will buy your aircraft for 10 cents on the dollar from your family after you are gone.
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I, for one am grateful that for generations before me, people considered their rights above their personal safety or we would not even have a Constitution.
 
Briantime said:
I, for one am grateful that for generations before me, people considered their rights above their personal safety or we would not even have a Constitution.
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Briantime said:
I, for one am grateful that for generations before me, people considered their rights above their personal safety or we would not even have a Constitution.
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees" if so a lot of you will not be around after this is over or what was was said in Catch 22 " It's better live on your knees than die on your feet".
 
brien23 said:
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees" if so a lot of you will not be around after this is over or what was was said in Catch 22 " It's better live on your knees than die on your feet".
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A lot more Americans have died fighting for our constitutional rights which makes this country what it is than will die due to to this epidemic.
 
You deserve a gold star for total lack of reading comprehension of these posts. Most agree with following the rules if they make sense. Does closing the tiny KGWC airport make any sense? Explain.
 
Snowmass said:
A lot more Americans have died fighting for our constitutional rights which makes this country what it is than will die due to to this epidemic.
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WWI the Spanish flu killed over 100 million all combat death 20 million, this is only the start and could be more deadly, one can only hope it's not.
 
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