cost to travel biweekly by Cessna 421

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jvwordsmith

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jvwordsmith
Hello all
I am not a pilot, I am a business writer. One of the stories I'm working on happens to include a [fictional] Calgary couple who are about to retire and want to commute to Arizona biweekly from November through April of each year. Would anyone be able to set me straight about the operating costs for the trip or the costs maintain and fly each year? This is based on:
1. They buy 1/8 of a Cessna 421 (1979-1985 or thereabouts) with the range to fly non-stop. Est. cost: $60,000
2. fuel and insurance to cover newly trained pilots (100 hours exp.)
3. 13 round trips over 6 months, Nov thu April, calgary to phoenix (1900mi x 2)
4. Two passengers most of the time
5. 1/8 share of hangar, maintenance and other costs
6. assumes the plane needs no overhauls:)
7. If this is totally too much plane for their needs, would you be able to suggest an alternative
I totally get it if no one has the time to reply to any and all of these. Just taking a chance.
Cheers,
J.
 
Is that fact that they are recently trained ( the 100 hour part ) important to the story? That much plane is way more then a 100 hour pilot would get and likely would not be insurable. I'm assuming the story involves them commuting and spending a fair amount of time in Arizona. That would likely be a problem with a 1/8 share. If they stay for a week ( or 5 days with a travel day at each end ) your looking at using the plane about 1/4 of the year but they are only buying 1/8. Not likely to happen in the real world. As for cost the fuel burn on a 421 is 40 gallons per hour at a cruise of 210 knots so figure about 9 hours flight time each way. 9 x 40 = 360 gallons at 6.00 = 2160. Furhter digging on the plane says your going to stop for fuel along the way so up the cost to 2300 in fuel and time to 10 hours.

I would do more but got to finish cooking dinner
 
I am thinking it would be 26 round trips, with a pilot employed to make the return flight, as the other seven owners in Calgary would want to use the 421 during their stay in Arizona. :confused:

For $60k, get them a nice RV-6 instead, one fuel stop, 6.5 flight hours each way. :D
 
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If they own 1/8th of the plane (fractional owners) running on that schedule, they will have a pro pilot flying because it needs to return to base. Figure cost of operations all in will be $700hr.
 
A100 hour pilot? It will be a short story. Better yet, why would anyone fly with this pilot?
 
Thanks for the responses. and many good points.
Yes, this couple are new pilots, having taking flying lessons over a number of months, that's why 100+ hrs.
Ideally I wanted them to fly a little two seater but 1900 miles seemed too long for that kind of plane and cruising speed had to be reasonably fast or they'd be travelling all day and night. The ideea was it would take them no more than 6 to 8 hours or a biweekly trip would quickly become tedious, no? They would be traveling down every 2nd Tuesday, returning two weeks later, so yes, I guess would have to be 1/4 fractional ownership or the other 7 people would get pretty mad.
The RV is a possibility and I've read about some other planes like the Aerostar and Baron, but again are they too much plane for these two rookies? May have to look at an alternative storyline (btw, she wants to be with grandkids in Calgary/ he wants to play golf with his buddies in Phoenix -- they've compromised -- no divorce jokes please:).

I saw this on an Aerostar board:
"A Baron/C310 will do everything an Aerostar will do and more for 1/2 the operating costs...a Baron/C310 will even get there first, on longer trips, because it won't need to tech stop"

I'm out of my depth here... Maybe it's time to hang up on this idea, and find a better way to get them down to Arizona.

Thanks again, all.
 
PS -
I found a site that calculates Calgary to Phoenix as 1209 miles, not 1900 as I was told originally. That might help.
 
Dispatch reliability would be another big issue. Weather, ice and mechanical issues would make it somewhat unreliable. They would be flying commercial fairly often, unless they were pretty flexible on thier travel times. Also, a 100 hour pilot wouldn't have an instrument rating, which would significantly reduce that reliability.
 
Turbo Lancair Legacy - 2 seater.
 
Really like the Bonanza as an alternative. Great suggestion!
With a stop, total flight time only 7 hours or so.
They will put in the extra hrs and get their instruments license.
Looks like a slightly older model in good shape can be had for 80K (1/4 share).
 
I love to fly like everyone here, and fly my own plane even more, but as in everything, the way my brain works, is how many commercial flights can the couple do for the enormous amount of $$$$ this is going to cost them?

My guess is quite a few with no headaches other than what you deal with at terminals. I'm trying not to be a Debbie Downer, but like someone said I think on here, ...

"If it flies, floats, or ****s, ... it's cheaper to rent. ;):D
 
If they can afford the operating costs, surely they can afford to be the sole owners.
 
jvwordsmith said:
Really like the Bonanza as an alternative. Great suggestion!
With a stop, total flight time only 7 hours or so.
They will put in the extra hrs and get their instruments license.
Looks like a slightly older model in good shape can be had for 80K (1/4 share).
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80k will buy you a good one all by yourself, S-35 is "Best of Breed".
 
If you're writing a novel, they could always "self-insure" - ie go without insurance if they are the sole owners and pay cash.

Aircraft insurance is not required like auto insurance.
 
Bottom line is that any turbo charged twin will cost around $400-500/hr. My old twin was down to about $330/hr all in, but that was a simple machine with not much complexity. I can assure you that my Aerostar doesn't cost twice as much as a Baron to run. They cost roughly the same to operate, probably. The pressurisation on the Aerostars is not something that needs a lot of maintenance, so that's a myth. Everything else is similar to a Baron.

However, the geared GTSIO engines on the 421's are a little more costly to overhaul, and they have a lower TBO, so that adds a little extra.
 
Seanaldinho said:
What does John (747JB ) fly? I thought he had a 400 series Cessna, but it may be a 414
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I've had both, now I have a 425, but I'll still comment.:D
The all in costs per hour for me, including fuel, maintenance, insurance, hangar, subscriptions etc ran $650-700 per hour for 75 hours per year. That is without any engine reserves or major engine repairs.
For the story to be believable, at least to pilots that might read it, a 421 is way too much airplane for a 100 hour pilot. :no:
I think a Bonanza has been suggested and that would likely work, with a fuel stop. They are retired and a lot older guys have some type of prostate issue, so 7 hours in any airplane is going to require some relief. :D Honestly, very few people want to sit still for that long in any airplane. You could give them a favorite lunch stop along the way, where they can get patted down and harassed by a friendly US Customs agent as they enter the US. Maybe throw in an affair with the lady and the 35 year old customs inspector.:idea: Have the old man arrested after planting some bootleg maple syrup and have her leave him for the customs guy while he's in jail! :D
This is why I don't write for a living! :D
 
txflyer said:
I love to fly like everyone here, and fly my own plane even more, but as in everything, the way my brain works, is how many commercial flights can the couple do for the enormous amount of $$$$ this is going to cost them?
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Calgary to Phoenix is like flying halfway across this country every two weeks, with mountains in the way, in the winter. They will try it a few times, get stuck because of weather a few times, then take the fictional airline. :D

Even in real life there are a number of airlines which fly non-stop between Calgary and Phoenix.
 
Doesn't this route pass over/near Bend, OR? Have them build an Epic :)
 
Also, in real-life they would need to clear customs at their first stop after crossing the border, each way.
 
Everskyward said:
Also, in real-life they would need to clear customs at their first stop after crossing the border, each way.
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And in Canada, that's typically a phone call. They'll also need eAPIS too. WOW this is going to be an exciting story, eAPIS will be half the book :rofl:
 
bartmc said:
And in Canada, that's typically a phone call.
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But you can't land at just any airport. It needs to be an approved CANPASS airport. CYYC (Calgary International) would be OK, though.
 
bartmc said:
Or spring bank which is where they'd likely be based :)
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I've never been to Springbank (except driving by). Maybe they would be based there, especially if they live on the west side of town.
 
Everskyward said:
I've never been to Springbank (except driving by). Maybe they would be based there, especially if they live on the west side of town.
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I think most small GA traffic uses spring bank. I flew in there once, nice airport.
 
For only the two of them a Malibu could do the trick. All they need is a customs airport, the issue with ' landing at the first one' is limited to the southern border.

Some tips on where I can find 7 partners who allow me to take the plane 1/2 the time. There are cerainly 421s in large partnerships but that is fir people who need the plane twice a year for a trip.
 
weilke said:
For only the two of them a Malibu could do the trick. All they need is a customs airport, the issue with ' landing at the first one' is limited to the southern border..
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They don't need to land at the first airport on the other side of the border but they need to clear customs at the first airport of landing in the US (and Canada). In other words, seeing how far you can get on that tank of fuel then landing at a nearby airport isn't really an option.
 
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Yeah, I used to fly from Ontario to Atlanta (FTY) all the time, and clear Customs here. CANPASS is or was a great system, I haven't used it in 5 or 6 years, but it worked great then. :D
Coming from the south is a whole different ball game, first airport that has customs is pretty much where you stop. ;)
Everskyward said:
They don't need to land at the first airport on the other side of the border but they need to clear customs at the first airport of landing in the US (and Canada). In other words, seeing how far you can get on that tank of fuel then landing at a nearby airport isn't really an option.
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Everskyward said:
They don't need to land at the first airport on the other side of the border but they need to clear customs at the first airport of landing in the US (and Canada). In other words, seeing how far you can get on that tank of fuel then landing at a nearby airport isn't really an option.
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Who talked about seing how far you can get ? Springbank to Falcon Field in Mesa is 1065NM, even with some upper winds that is within the range of a Conti powered Malibu. Now that trip goes straight over some pretty gnarly terrain and many people wouldn't be comfortable doing that in a piston single, particularly a Malibu (a couple from Alberta came to grief in a P-baron on a similar route a couple of years ago).

On days where the upper winds dont allow a direct flight, Boise would cut the trip into two similar legs and provide a customs stop.

Where the original scenario falls apart is the idea that this can be done in that large of a partnership. With 4 owners and a contract pilot it could work, but they would have to know that each trip to AZ would involve 4 legs, about 20hrs of flying. Even if one disregards the fixed cost of owning the share, the direct operating cost of a 421 are somewhere around $350-400. Add to that two days for the contract pilot at $500/day, the cost for each round-trip is $9,000.
A business class return ticket from Phoenix to Calgary bought 2 months out is $1447 per person. Add limo service at both ends so you have someone to help with your luggage and the total is $3500.

If you own the plane outright and you are able to fly yourself, the equation looks a bit different.
- you have the plane in AZ, so if you feel like going to the beach or somewhere in the mountains it is available.
- you dont have to pay piloting fees.
- you dont have the deadhead legs.

A round-trip would then run about $4000 and be competitive with business class tickets (otoh you have to write 1/1th of every maintenance check that has to be written).

So yes, commuting by plane can be done, the cost to do so is pretty steep. I commute to work every other week over a similar distance, nothing can touch the airlines for cost effectiveness.

Their best bet is to obtain FAA certificates and to base a nice piston single at their AZ home for local use. The trip lengthwise across the rockies is best left to the Airlines or a twin-jet.
 
kgruber said:
It's a Lear 35 mission with 2 owners and a pro crew.
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Lol, something along those lines is what I wanted to conclude my rambling post with. I had a Citation V derivative in mind.
 
Everskyward said:
Calgary to Phoenix is like flying halfway across this country every two weeks, with mountains in the way, in the winter. They will try it a few times, get stuck because of weather a few times, then take the fictional airline. :D

Even in real life there are a number of airlines which fly non-stop between Calgary and Phoenix.
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I own a plane because I want to own a plane. No other reason on paper justifies it.

It's like one of those big motor coaches. You have to just want one because when you compare the price to renting, unless you live in the thing, it makes no sense to own one.

My Dad wanted to buy a motor coach one time and my Mom said "over my dead body." She said there's no way she's going to be a maid on the road for what one costs. They could travel the world first class and stay in the finest hotels for months for what one costs. It maid sense. ;)
 
weilke said:
Who talked about seing how far you can get ? Springbank to Falcon Field in Mesa is 1065NM, even with some upper winds that is within the range of a Conti powered Malibu. Now that trip goes straight over some pretty gnarly terrain and many people wouldn't be comfortable doing that in a piston single, particularly a Malibu (a couple from Alberta came to grief in a P-baron on a similar route a couple of years ago).

On days where the upper winds dont allow a direct flight, Boise would cut the trip into two similar legs and provide a customs stop.

Where the original scenario falls apart is the idea that this can be done in that large of a partnership. With 4 owners and a contract pilot it could work, but they would have to know that each trip to AZ would involve 4 legs, about 20hrs of flying. Even if one disregards the fixed cost of owning the share, the direct operating cost of a 421 are somewhere around $350-400. Add to that two days for the contract pilot at $500/day, the cost for each round-trip is $9,000.
A business class return ticket from Phoenix to Calgary bought 2 months out is $1447 per person. Add limo service at both ends so you have someone to help with your luggage and the total is $3500.

If you own the plane outright and you are able to fly yourself, the equation looks a bit different.
- you have the plane in AZ, so if you feel like going to the beach or somewhere in the mountains it is available.
- you dont have to pay piloting fees.
- you dont have the deadhead legs.

A round-trip would then run about $4000 and be competitive with business class tickets (otoh you have to write 1/1th of every maintenance check that has to be written).

So yes, commuting by plane can be done, the cost to do so is pretty steep. I commute to work every other week over a similar distance, nothing can touch the airlines for cost effectiveness.

Their best bet is to obtain FAA certificates and to base a nice piston single at their AZ home for local use. The trip lengthwise across the rockies is best left to the Airlines or a twin-jet.
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Who's talking about business class and limos? I looked before I posted last time about the airline option and the tickets were about $400 one way last minute. People go way out of the way to justify the cost of flying themselves but on a long trip like this with non-stop options it's not possible.
 
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