Cost to get CFI

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odie451

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odie451
On my way to work, I was listening to the Ken Coleman show, and the person calling in said they were a student pilot and they wanted to get their CFI rating, but it would cost them $90,000, is this right. $90,000, seems extremely high for a CFI. Maybe ATP, but not CFI

They said they were from Queen Creek, AZ; which I see is close to Phoenix. They also said they worked fast food.
 
0 to hero at ATP costs $81,000 according to their website. It also includes the ATP CTP course. You can definitely find a cheaper option than that to go through all your ratings.
 
jordane93 said:
0 to hero at ATP costs $81,000 according to their website. It also includes the ATP CTP course. You can definitely find a cheaper option than that to go through all your ratings.
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That's what I thought.
 
Well if the average cost per hour is 200 bucks when you figure in rental check rides and instructor time and everything for your instrument and your commercial and your private along with headsets books etc....
250 to commercial is 50k.
 
He must have been looking at the ERAU pricing :fingerwag:
 
EdFred said:
Well if the average cost per hour is 200 bucks when you figure in rental check rides and instructor time and everything for your instrument and your commercial and your private along with headsets books etc....
250 to commercial is 50k.
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And naturally there are people who will actually get to their commercial checkride with 220 hours dual.

that’s a serious comment, btw, not a sarcastic reply.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
He must have been looking at the ERAU pricing :fingerwag:
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Cirrus SR22 rents for $235/hr dry at Elite in Phoenix area. Add in fuel (14gph @ $4.00?) puts you at 290 per hour just for plane and fuel.

290 * 250 = $72,500
$50 - $75 for an instructor at another 60 hrs is $4500 (minimum)
4 written tests = $600+
4 Check rides = $2000
iPad/charts/headseat/whatever...$ ?????

We are at $80k already
 
MauleSkinner said:
And naturally there are people who will actually get to their commercial checkride with 220 hours dual.

that’s a serious comment, btw, not a sarcastic reply.
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Do it part 141 and it will be even lower.
 
I'm way on the other side of that equation :lol:
 
odie451 said:
On my way to work, I was listening to the Ken Coleman show, and the person calling in said they were a student pilot and they wanted to get their CFI rating, but it would cost them $90,000, is this right. $90,000, seems extremely high for a CFI. Maybe ATP, but not CFI

They said they were from Queen Creek, AZ; which I see is close to Phoenix. They also said they worked fast food.
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I kept a log of my expenditures. When I got my CFII in 2000, I had a total of about 500 hours, and a total cost at that time was about $25k. This is when a 172 was $46/hr wet.
 
sarangan said:
I kept a log of my expenditures. When I got my CFII in 2000, I had a total of about 500 hours, and a total cost at that time was about $25k. This is when a 172 was $46/hr wet.
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The one old 172 at a flight school here (not ATP) $135 wet. The 172's with a G1000 are $190.
 
I couldn’t imagine going zero to hero in a rental. This is where ownership shines like a mofo. If u know you’re going all the way I highly recommend buying something after PPL that u can do IR and everything else in. Some of these cost numbers being thrown around are insane.
 
eman1200 said:
I couldn’t imagine going zero to hero in a rental. This is where ownership shines like a mofo. If u know you’re going all the way I highly recommend buying something after PPL that u can do IR and everything else in. Some of these cost numbers being thrown around are insane.
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If hero means getting your 1500 hours to get your ATP I can’t see how you can do that unless you’re teaching. Which means you’re in a school having a student pay for rental.
 
WDD said:
If hero means getting your 1500 hours to get your ATP I can’t see how you can do that unless you’re teaching. Which means you’re in a school having a student pay for rental.
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Talk to @Grum.Man about that. The dude hasn’t stopped flying his own plane in, well, like 1500 hours. I think he refuels in flight. But I hear ya.
 
eman1200 said:
Talk to @Grum.Man about that. The dude hasn’t stopped flying his own plane in, well, like 1500 hours. I think he refuels in flight. But I hear ya.
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It’s called working only to pay for gas an oil changes. Bringing your lunch with you. Living as cheap as possible. Having a hind end made of iron. It also helps to have a job that allows flexible hours and a pandemic to help with that final push to 1500 only to see your dream go into bankruptcy before your eyes.

Yours truly the gent who flew almost 800 hours in a year on his own dime.
 
Grum.Man said:
It’s called working only to pay for gas an oil changes. Bringing your lunch with you. Living as cheap as possible. Having a hind end made of iron. It also helps to have a job that allows flexible hours and a pandemic to help with that final push to 1500 only to see your dream go into bankruptcy before your eyes.

Yours truly the gent who flew almost 800 hours in a year on his own dime.
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Wow!!!!
 
MauleSkinner said:
And naturally there are people who will actually get to their commercial checkride with 220 hours dual.
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I probably had pretty close to that... but to be fair, by the time I took my first Commercial checkride (for AMEL), I already had four other certificates, 40 hours in helicopters (with no certificate (thanks, Jerry)), and a whole lot of CAP PIC with an instructor as a Mission Observer.
 
smv said:
I probably had pretty close to that... but to be fair, by the time I took my first Commercial checkride (for AMEL), I already had four other certificates, 40 hours in helicopters (with no certificate (thanks, Jerry)), and a whole lot of CAP PIC with an instructor as a Mission Observer.
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CAP was a great way (for me) to build time. In addition to exercises and actual missions, rental for “proficiency flying” was super cheap.
 
eman1200 said:
I couldn’t imagine going zero to hero in a rental. This is where ownership shines like a mofo.
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Ownership is not all it’s cracked up to be, if the goal is to get certificates as fast as possible so you can start working and building time. Almost 100% of the students I’ve worked with that have rented aircraft to train for a certificate have finished far sooner than those who own. Aircraft ownership responsibilities and breakdowns often get in the way of progress.

But, if the goal is to earn certificates as cheaply as possible and time is not a factor, then ownership is probably the way to go. Or better yet, ownership and working part time at the local airport. Working at the local airport in my spare time really paid off for me, as all of my certificates and ratings post instrument rating have basically cost me $0. Even the instrument rating costs were significantly reduced compared to what I spent to earn my private certificate.
 
mondtster said:
Ownership is not all it’s cracked up to be, if the goal is to get certificates as fast as possible so you can start working and building time. Almost 100% of the students I’ve worked with that have rented aircraft to train for a certificate have finished far sooner than those who own. Aircraft ownership responsibilities and breakdowns often get in the way of progress.

But, if the goal is to earn certificates as cheaply as possible and time is not a factor, then ownership is probably the way to go. Or better yet, ownership and working part time at the local airport. Working at the local airport in my spare time really paid off for me, as all of my certificates and ratings post instrument rating have basically cost me $0. Even the instrument rating costs were significantly reduced compared to what I spent to earn my private certificate.
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I made no mention of time, only cost. But since u mention time, unless u bought a lemon I don’t see how owning would take any longer. I understand some renters have multiple planes to possibly choose from, but I’ve never ever heard a some owner complain about scheduling conflicts. I’d bet 100% of renters have at some point not been able to fly due to rental schedule conflicts. Since owning the ONLY delay I’ve had in regards to training has been weather.
 
EdFred said:
Cirrus SR22 rents for $235/hr dry at Elite in Phoenix area. Add in fuel (14gph @ $4.00?) puts you at 290 per hour just for plane and fuel.

290 * 250 = $72,500
$50 - $75 for an instructor at another 60 hrs is $4500 (minimum)
4 written tests = $600+
4 Check rides = $2000
iPad/charts/headseat/whatever...$ ?????

We are at $80k already
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Not sure why you'd select the most expensive single engine plane on the ramp to fill your log book, but okay.

Generic to other comments in this thread, the idea of buying a plane for your hours is appealing. But I would say there are two kinds of people trying to reach for the ever moving carrot.

The first is a young person trying to start a long term career. They are unlikely to have the resources to buy much of an airplane.

The other is a mid life person looking to get away from their steady desk job and do something rewarding for a change. In that case you need to factor in the costs of unexpected maintenance, divorce, etc.
 
No matter what route you take, absolutely do not go into debt for ratings. If you need to finance an airplane that’s one thing, you will have an asset to sell. How would you be financially right now if you have to start making a payment on 80k and there are no jobs to be had? As disappointed as I am at the reality that it will likely be 2-3 years before people with minimum qualifications will be competitive in the job market I am extremely thankful I’m only out gas money.
 
I do know of a gent who was an OTR truck driver, with a family.

He got his private renting (and probably still working).. he went on, sacrificing everything, lived hand to mouth on food stamps and got all his ratings.

He now works for NetJets. He's a captain, and just got rated on a bigger jet.

He makes good money, I'm sure. Works one week on, one off. Has built 2 homes with a little subcontracting but not much.

I think it was @flyingron that once said to me "it's all about priorities" or something similar.

I rent, prolly will for the rest of my days. Our club rents 172s for $80-90 an hour, wet (vfr-ifr). Instructors are $50. So, all in, $130-140 an hour + $48 month membership, with a <$300 one time buy in.

That's the least expensive way I can think of to advance your ratings.
 
Great information on this thread...
 
aftCG said:
Not sure why you'd select the most expensive single engine plane on the ramp to fill your log book, but okay.

Generic to other comments in this thread, the idea of buying a plane for your hours is appealing. But I would say there are two kinds of people trying to reach for the ever moving carrot.

The first is a young person trying to start a long term career. They are unlikely to have the resources to buy much of an airplane.

The other is a mid life person looking to get away from their steady desk job and do something rewarding for a change. In that case you need to factor in the costs of unexpected maintenance, divorce, etc.
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I just did a search for flight training in Phoenix and grabbed the first result. I'm just showing that yeah it could cost $80,000 to get your CFI if you don't shop around which the person who claimed it cost that much may or may not have done.
 
Probably the worst I’ve ever heard was a new hire at my last regional. He was having a tough go in training and was really stressed out about money. While having a little me mentorship visit with the guy he told me his student loans were in excess of 300k for college and flight training. He borrowed every penny he spent while in college. Every meal, beer, class, book, flight hour and housing... all borrowed. I was speechless. No way this business is worth that much investment let alone that much debt.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Probably the worst I’ve ever heard was a new hire at my last regional. He was having a tough go in training and was really stressed out about money. While having a little me mentorship visit with the guy he told me his student loans were in excess of 300k for college and flight training. He borrowed every penny he spent while in college. Every meal, beer, class, book, flight hour and housing... all borrowed. I was speechless. No way this business is worth that much investment let alone that much debt.
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I will never understand that thought process.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
...he told me his student loans were in excess of 300k for college and flight training.
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which is why I plan on having a budget and saving up to take lessons to get my ppl.

Tarheelpilot said:
Probably the worst I’ve ever heard was a new hire at my last regional. He was having a tough go in training and was really stressed out about money.
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Was he a pilot already or still working on it? How much can a beginning pilot make at regionals.
 
odie451 said:
which is why I plan on having a budget and saving up to take lessons to get my ppl.



Was he a pilot already or still working on it? How much can a beginning pilot make at regionals.
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Year one: Less than you will make at pretty much any other full time job.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Probably the worst I’ve ever heard was a new hire at my last regional. He was having a tough go in training and was really stressed out about money. While having a little me mentorship visit with the guy he told me his student loans were in excess of 300k for college and flight training. He borrowed every penny he spent while in college. Every meal, beer, class, book, flight hour and housing... all borrowed. I was speechless. No way this business is worth that much investment let alone that much debt.
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Heard plenty of horror stories about people like that when I was in school '06-'09 but don't know that I ever actually met anyone in that position. Was glad to be on ROTC scholarship when it would come up.
 
odie451 said:
which is why I plan on having a budget and saving up to take lessons to get my ppl.



Was he a pilot already or still working on it? How much can a beginning pilot make at regionals.
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I was his sim instructor at a regional so if you consider that as making it he had made it. Of course... since CORONA has hit he’s going to lose his job in a few months.

First year pay is a tough pill to swallow. Figure most if not all of first three months at training pay and reserve rarely breaking min guarantee for the remainder. About the easiest was to swag it and be in the ballpark is to lookup the first year pay rate and multiply by 1k for a rough estimate of annual income. You would be pretty close to that number most likely perhaps. Maybe.
 
Used to be regional airlines asked their pilots to not wear their uniforms when standing in line for food stamps
 
$300k in loans? Such a horrible situation. Lack of financial education and a system that would loan that has doomed that person for his / her life.
 
Sounds like someone that ignored every bit of guidance and advice against doing such a thing, in addition to your post.
 
Here in the Los Angeles area there's a flight academy which advertises $65,000 from zero to airline pilot. Their planes are new and well equipped, but I don't know how much teaching you're doing by the end to get your hours. Maybe it's more expensive to just get to CFI?
 
I was in emrg room with my kid with busted arm.Doc was friendly and chatty and I asked how much it cost to doctor and he replied ,365 and such and such(he knew it to the dollar).
Sounds about the same number the guy in your story rolled up.
Doctor or Pilot same money? Doesn't seem right.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Probably the worst I’ve ever heard was a new hire at my last regional. He was having a tough go in training and was really stressed out about money. While having a little me mentorship visit with the guy he told me his student loans were in excess of 300k for college and flight training. He borrowed every penny he spent while in college. Every meal, beer, class, book, flight hour and housing... all borrowed. I was speechless. No way this business is worth that much investment let alone that much debt.
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This guy probably thinks his "student debt" should be forgiven/paid for by the rest of us.
 
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