Cost questions for: ADSB-Out, autopilot, and interior upgrade?

Sudburian

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Sudburian
I'm looking at this 1968 Cardinal. Seller claims ADSB-Out will cost $2,500. Does that sound right?

Also, that interior looks junked. How much to make it nicer for flying my wife and kid around?

I'm guessing it has no autopilot. What does that cost?

Anyone see anything else? I am a first-time buyer.
 
Depends on the ADS-B out solution.... what's going in, what's in the plane already? That's probably in the ballpark for a tailbeacon/skybeacon (around $2100 retail for the the hardware new, plus a few hours labor to install). As for an autopilot, again, what's in the airplane? As S-tec no longer offers anything other than the 55x and 3100, your options for simple wing leveler or 1 axis AP aren't there anymore (I think Century is out of business or very close to it?) Garmin has the GFC 500, but only available for the 177B currently, the 177 and 177A certification program is in progress. But even so, without knowing what avionics are in the plane it's hard to even give a WAG. If it's all older analog avionics, and you don't want to change them, to do a GFC 500 you'll be needing to do GI-275's vs G5's (presuming you are waiting until the STC is approved for the earlier 177's), which would be higher cost.
 
The avionics include a LORAN. That hasn’t been in operation for 20ish years. The other box is also ancient. You’re looking at at least $50 k to bring it up to speed. Interior is relatively cheap in comparison. Search “pre-buy” on this site and get an idea of the money pit things like this can be.

figure out who will be your local mechanic and buy a few hours of their time to work on what might be a good option.
 
The good news is that by replacing all the old, heavy avionics you're going going to pick up a bunch of useful load. ;)

The bad news is that avionics, autopilot and interior is probably going to cost as much as the airplane. :(
 
Interior is less expensive than avionics, but not cheap. Depending on the scope (seats, headrests, wall panels, carpet, headliner, insulation) and the quality of the materials (cloth, leather, wool) you should budget for seats, wall panels and carpet at least 4k for the materials if you are willing to install it on your own and invest some elbow grease. Especially removal of old contact adhesive is time consuming. Ball park for a ready installed interior is between 10-15k.
 
Do yourself a favor and buy something with more than 200hp (min 230, 250+ betta, 300 ideal) if you want to haul a family and some stuff around, yes even only kid (my family is 2+1 too btw). Biggest thing i wish i had done different after a decade and half of ownership (before inflation froze everything in place anyways) and 3 airplanes. These things are wimpy close to gross, fixed cardinals are dogs. Buy horeepower with the savings of stupid money the market is asking for panel doo dads and cosmetics these days.
/Hottake
 
His quote for a uAvionix ADSB is accurate, but if the transponder fails in the near term you'll have nothing. Stratus ESG is just over $3k for the parts, and not a difficult install. It doesn't require a separate GPS for position, and comes with a Stratus III for ADSB In. Trio has an approved autopilot for a C177, they list $5,995 on their website for the kit. Interior all depends how much you are willing to do on it yourself.
 
Y’all are great. Thank you. I’m thinking to pass on this one. My heart is set on a 182 anyway.
 
$88K for that? Yikes. Its worth about $45K and that is AFTER a successful eddy current inspection is completed on the carry thru spar per the AD, which most likely has not been done yet.
 
For the interior, Airtex has kits to replace carpet, carpeted side panels and upholstery. You could DIY with this. Although, SCS in MN has a better quality carpet.

Local FBO quoted about 12 AMU to do the interior of my Mooney. Airtex interior. Remove, repair and paint all the plastic parts. And possibly have to replace a few.

At the high end, a couple of shops have quoted around 22 - 24 AMU for high end interior. Leather on the seats. Cover all the plastic pieces with ultra leather Two tone, embroidered headrest, leather covered yokes in two colors.
 
Are you IFR rated and/or do you plan to fly in those conditions? IOW, which route do you expect to follow? I think you might want to decide now before buying something because there’s likely to be a significant difference in your cost projections.

A vfr plane with existing autopilot and decent interior is probably not hard to find. Once people start upgrading IFR avionics look out budget!
 
Are you IFR rated and/or do you plan to fly in those conditions? IOW, which route do you expect to follow? I think you might want to decide now before buying something because there’s likely to be a significant difference in your cost projections.

A vfr plane with existing autopilot and decent interior is probably not hard to find. Once people start upgrading IFR avionics look out budget!
I intend to become IFR rated but will not fly in IFR conditions (except to maintain currency).
 
I am going to play a little devil's advocate here. This *could* be the plane for you, if you get a price you feel is fair and it sails through a reputable pre-buy. OTOH, it could be an awful option. IMO, there just isn't enough information to make a recommendation. What is the mission? You mention you'll be flying your wife and kid around, but how often? Will you be using it solo, or will it be primarily a family hauler? What will be the typical trip distance? Are you robust or slight people? Do you travel heavy or light? Will there be any time pressures anticipated with your usual trips? What are the terrain and DA considerations around your region? Is this a forever plane, or a stepping stone to something more capable in the medium-term future?

To directly answer your questions:
-Interior: as stated by multiple people above, plan for a few AMUs if you DIY it, or 10-12 AMUs if you go for a completely hands-off approach. Remember though, this is really just cosmetic and could be done piecemeal and as funds allow.
-ADS-B out: $2500 is about right for the most basic options, like uAvionix.
-Autopilot: You'd be kidding yourself to think you could get it done for anything less than 12-15 AMUs installed price for a basic 2-axis solution like the Trio or an Aerocruze 100 (if they are available for Cardinals). You will get quotes of $20-25K. There are reputable shops out there that will do it for $15K +/-, but you might have to wait a bit longer to schedule, and/or fly it halfway across the country.

On the note of avionics. This is just my $0.02, but with that panel, it would be foolish to sink the kind of coin an AP would cost without adding a modern GPS navigator. Given that you need ADS-B out, your most financially efficient route would be to install a GNX-375. This would give you a modern IFR GPS navigator that can integrate with your AP, as well as include a built-in ADS-B out transponder, for around $9K for the unit plus a couple AMU more for antenna and misc accessories. Depending on your budget, this would also be a good time to pull the vacuum system and replace the AI and DG with G5s (or GI-275s for a little more), figure 6K in parts for G5s plus a few thousand install. You'd recoup some of that selling the working vacuum pump and gauges, plus you'd save the cost of a CDI for the GPS. You could probably get a GNX-375 + basic 2-axis AP + dual G5s installed for 35 AMUs all-in. It would add 15-20 AMUs to the value of the plane, so it wouldn't be a total money burn. If you were on a stricter budget, subtract the G5s and you're probably looking around $25K.

It sounds like you want a plane that has a decent panel and a pretty interior (don't we all). If you can get a good price for the plane, then maybe $35K into the panel and $5K + your own time/sweat/blood into the interior is worth it. First and foremost though, the plane needs to fit the mission and have good bones. If not, don't settle for something that won't work. All the pretty glass and diamond-stitched leather in the world won't make a plane go faster, climb quicker, take off or land shorter, deice better, or carry more.
 
For the interior, Airtex has kits to replace carpet, carpeted side panels and upholstery. You could DIY with this. Although, SCS in MN has a better quality carpet.

Local FBO quoted about 12 AMU to do the interior of my Mooney. Airtex interior. Remove, repair and paint all the plastic parts. And possibly have to replace a few.

At the high end, a couple of shops have quoted around 22 - 24 AMU for high end interior. Leather on the seats. Cover all the plastic pieces with ultra leather Two tone, embroidered headrest, leather covered yokes in two colors.

I had my interior done (painted plastic parts, but ultra leather on ceiling, arm rests, and trim pieces), new cushions and ultra leather on seats (2 tone) and new carpeting…but no embroidery for $7500 back in 2015…probably be $12,000 today. 22-24 seems way high.
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I had my interior done (painted plastic parts, but ultra leather on ceiling, arm rests, and trim pieces), new cushions and ultra leather on seats (2 tone) and new carpeting…but no embroidery for $7500 back in 2015…probably be $12,000 today. 22-24 seems way high.
You haven't pricing things today.

My airplane was painted in 2014. I just saw the invoice going through some of the paperwork. About $9. Today, full strip and paint jobs are running in the mid to high $20K range.

$12K will get you new carpet, painted plastic, Airtex fabric seat covers installed today
 
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