Cost for cirrus sr20 check out

Justin M

Justin M

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Hi.

A local flight school is charging 5,000 dollars for a cirrus sr20 checkout. The training is 5 hours of ground school and 10 hours of flight training for private pilots. They also want renters to have 80,000 dollars renters insurance. Finally the Cirrus rents at 250 per hour wet.

What do you think of these costs? Are they reasonable?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Justin
 
So $333/hr for the instructor. Plus another $3750 total for the plane?
 
Justin M said:
Hi.

A local flight school is charging 5,000 dollars for a cirrus sr20 checkout. The training is 5 hours of ground school and 10 hours of flight training for private pilots. They also want renters to have 80,000 dollars renters insurance. Finally the Cirrus rents at 250 per hour wet.

What do you think of these costs? Are they reasonable?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Justin
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No way... That's absurd.
The $250 wet seems fine. But the checkout is crazy.

Flight portion costs $2500 (250$ wet rental x 10h) plus maybe 70$ an hr for an instructor so $3200 for flying... and they they want another $1800 for... ground instruction? No way.
The SR20 just isn't a fancy or exotic plane. IDK how they can justify that spend.
 
It's a Cirrus, that's why. We have the same problem in Denver at the Platinum Cirrus school. Outlandish pricing. Why? Because it's a Cirrus.
 
People pay it. In their defense, 20s are over $500k now. Not difficult to fly, but there is a learning curve for the avionics. Plus they are not difficult to fly if you fly them correctly. As far as insurance, you can’t touch a 20 for 80k now.
 
A lot of youth will pay whatever especially if you sell the idea of a safe newer full avionics system. Since you are building hours fly something cheap! Learn the basics. Then transition to what you like after you get some skills.
 
The 10 hours dual in type sounds like an insurance requirement. I wonder if someone came to them with that experience would the requirements be the same.

But yeah, I would be looking elsewhere before signing up for that.
 
Most require the 10hrs Cirrus checkout, there is a prescribed Cirrus course for the insurance.
 
$5k is on the cheap side if doing the cirrus syllabus. I wanted to rent a cirrus from the local fbo here. Took one flight, they told me how much the checkout would cost me and I realized I did not want to rent a cirrus. Even if I hadn't hated how the thing feels when hand flying it, it was way too much just for the privilege of renting for an also outrageous price.
 
The market will decide if it’s too expensive or not.
If there are enough pilots willing to pay for this service, the business may thrive.
I have thought things were too expensive in the past only to watch others buy and enjoy, while I questioned my judgment on the purchase price.
What are their competitors charging?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
The market will decide if it’s too expensive or not.
If there are enough pilots willing to pay for this service, the business may thrive.
I have thought things were too expensive in the past only to watch others buy and enjoy, while I questioned my judgment on the purchase price.
What are their competitors charging?
Click to expand...
There's a place at KSGJ that has similar high rates...has been in business for quite a while as far as I know. My theory is that the planes are probably a lot nicer than the poorly maintained stock at any of the other area flight schools, so for folks that have the money, I can see renting the cirrus of some junker cessna. Still too expensive no matter how you slice it, but they are still in business.....
 
Only you can decide if it’s reasonable or not. Our local Cirrus place says a “checkout” is the full Cirrus VFR or IFR transition course, or do your PPL or Instrument from start in the SR20 or SR22. $5K flat rate for that isn’t bad. If it’s $5K + plane & CFI, then yeah, I’d pass.

Can’t rent a Cirrus unless you’ve done one of the above, and there’s 90-day currencies to keep for continued access.
 
I heard a similar price from a cirrus training center at the same airport. They priced it differently but with similarly final price.

The owner told me today I’ll call you in two weeks and maybe we’ll schedule you in two months.
 
Similar shtick at my [former] field, which just got a 2 airplane rental fleet, an expansion/offshoot of the outfit alluded to earlier (if we're talking about 5C1). I was just generally curious since selling the can, in case it could swing the use case of the occasional multi-state trip with the fam. But as soon as they showed/fed me the cirrus training line, I just moved on.

$375 wet for the -20, $410/$475 DRY for the -22/-22T. With fuel prices and sales taxes, it's probably closer to 600/hr. Nooooope.

All that said, the "time in type" nonsense for SEP jumped the shark for me a while ago, so that was a non-starter.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Similar shtick at my [former] field, which just got a 2 airplane rental fleet, an expansion/offshoot of the outfit alluded to earlier (if we're talking about 5C1). …..
Click to expand...

My anecdotal is exactly that operation. There’s some interesting background about an ATP and presumption of competence in an SR-2x for that particular operation. Happy to share via pm, but the NTSB report is also public.
 
Justin M said:
Hi.

A local flight school is charging 5,000 dollars for a cirrus sr20 checkout. The training is 5 hours of ground school and 10 hours of flight training for private pilots. They also want renters to have 80,000 dollars renters insurance. Finally the Cirrus rents at 250 per hour wet.

What do you think of these costs? Are they reasonable?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Justin
Click to expand...
Depends on the age of the aircraft. A transition in a SR22 G2 costs about that much. If the SR20 is a later model with Cirrus Perspective + avionics the cost is not bad.
 
TCABM said:
Only you can decide if it’s reasonable or not. Our local Cirrus place says a “checkout” is the full Cirrus VFR or IFR transition course, or do your PPL or Instrument from start in the SR20 or SR22. $5K flat rate for that isn’t bad. If it’s $5K + plane & CFI, then yeah, I’d pass.

Can’t rent a Cirrus unless you’ve done one of the above, and there’s 90-day currencies to keep for continued access.
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Yup, 90 day currency, plus for the place I rent from, what is basically a 6 month FR, alternated after 6 more months with an IPC. It ain't cheap, but it's still cheaper than owning now that the 22 prices have hit $1,000,000, at least cheaper for now.

I saw a post of a guy bragging he has purchased the most expensive new 22 to date, not something I would be particularly proud to admit publicly if it were me. But as long as there are buyers like this, Cirrus prices will go up, why wouldn't they?

Although I saw a Cirrus Aircraft ad in my FB feed yesterday, I haven't seen one of those in years, maybe things are turning.
 
Old saying in business. Make money by being liked by many or loved by a few.

If Cirrus has its capacity matched to the size of the market wanting and willing to pay for that "upscale experience", then good for them. And if the people willing to pay for that are happy, yeah OK.

Me? If I could afford that I wouldn't - just not what I want to spend money on. I'd be happier in a 70's era Skylane.
 
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But boss, I put out an advertisement to rent the plane. It's not my fault nobody wants to fly it.
 
One could by a nice Meridian or two Cessna 414s for the price of a four-year-old SR20.
 
Justin M said:
Hi.

A local flight school is charging 5,000 dollars for a cirrus sr20 checkout. The training is 5 hours of ground school and 10 hours of flight training for private pilots. They also want renters to have 80,000 dollars renters insurance. Finally the Cirrus rents at 250 per hour wet.

What do you think of these costs? Are they reasonable?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Justin
Click to expand...

Just to verify.

Case !: For the entire training it is $5000 and that includes the instructor AND the plane?

So for this case its $5000 - $2500 of (10hrs) rental so the remaining $2500 is spread across 15hrs of CFI time or $166/hr. Around here some instruction is getting close to $100hr but lets go with $85. At $85 that would be $1275 vs $2500. So you are overpaying the instruction by about $1225. And fleet rental 172's around her easily rent for $150/hr wet and more if you don't get into some monthly member ship. So lets go with $160hr which would be $1600 vs $2500 or another $900. So you are paying about $2125 more than if you went and soloed (no CFI) in a 172/Archer trainer. But those 10hrs should also get you your complex endorsement - I think - plus SR20 time. Is that worth another $2125?

Case 2: It is $5000 for the instruction AND another $2500 for the plane rental for 10hrs - that would be crazy.
The run!!!
 
In my area:
$275 per hr dry
$80 per hr for fuel
$125 per hr CFI

So about $1k for 2 hours. No, thanks!
 
Picking this thread back up.

I’m looking to do the training in a s20 g6 . I think it is a g1000

What is the transition to a s20 g3 built in 2006? I think the g3 avionics are aspen versus g6 avionics are Garmin.

Are the differences significant?
 
Some SR20s Gen 3 (maybe most) are equipped with Garmin Perspective avionics which are G1000s with additional buttons and knobs. All Gen 6s are equipped with Perspective+ avionics which are a little different (but not much) from the Perspective avionics. Pilots who are experienced in G3s can use a Garmin “trainer” on a home computer to learn the G6 avionics, though my local Cirrus school requires completion of a Cirrus “transition” course in order to be checked out to rent a G6.
 
Justin M said:
Picking this thread back up.

I’m looking to do the training in a s20 g6 . I think it is a g1000

What is the transition to a s20 g3 built in 2006? I think the g3 avionics are aspen versus g6 avionics are Garmin.

Are the differences significant?
Click to expand...
The avionics differences are significant - more for some than for others.

The one with the Aspen is probably an older round dial model model which has been aftermarket upgraded to glass. I've seen variations on that theme. What is the GPS? Might still be the original dual 430s, although some have upgraded to at least one GTN or an IFD.

The G6 Garmin is Perspective - a G1000 variant.

How much transition training you can expect depends. Airframe-wise, the airplane is very easy to fly. But how easy it is for you depends a lot on prior experience - not only hours, but types. If you have only flown one make, say Cessna, you can expect a longer transition than if you have flown 4 or 5 different types of airplanes. Part of it is a very different landing picture than most 4-place singles. The closest similar ones I know are the Grumman Tiger and the DA40NG (the diesel, not the 100LL model).

Same for the avionics. If you have flown G1000 a lot, the transition should not take long. The Aspen is a great PFD but very different in many respects from G1000, G5, GI275 or Dynon. Some people take to those differences easier than others .And, needless to say, the degree of competence needed for IFR is significantly greater than VFR.
 
I’m finding the controls heavy but sensitive. Its hard to fine tune .

Also learning where to look on the pfd is taking time too.

The dead zone in adding or removing power is an easier transition.

Auto pilot is amazing!

I’m used to manual trim, but auto pilot is so helpful!

278 per hour wet and 100 per hour instruction. I opted out of the club as it adds 1,100 to the cost in the first year.
 
If you’re going to own a cirrus that price is probably acceptable,but to pay that to be able to rent a cirrus occasionally would be out of my budget. For me it’s all about the flying not the name recognition of the airplane.
 
frfly172 said:
If you’re going to own a cirrus that price is probably acceptable,but to pay that to be able to rent a cirrus occasionally would be out of my budget. For me it’s all about the flying not the name recognition of the airplane.
Click to expand...
Maybe I’m not looking in the right places, but in the New Jersey side of NYC, I can’t really find any fastish planes that I can rent for a week.

Even most of the 172s aren’t available for a multi day trip.

ETA: I don’t really think a 172 fits my mission, but I used it to point out that even a slowish plane would be hard to rent for my mission.
 
That seems like pretty reasonable pricing across the board for a bonafide Cirrus checkout. In my area the least expensive option is $8k and most are more than that.
 
Justin M said:
Maybe I’m not looking in the right places, but in the New Jersey side of NYC, I can’t really find any fastish planes that I can rent for a week.

Even most of the 172s aren’t available for a multi day trip.

ETA: I don’t really think a 172 fits my mission, but I used it to point out that even a slowish plane would be hard to rent for my mission.
Click to expand...

Not sure exactly how "fastish" is defined for you, but there are options... check out the flight schools at Caldwell (Cirrus) and Orange County (Diamond).
 
I conduct practical tests in most of the Cirrus models, though I've yet to get my hands on a G7 so far. These airplanes are amazing, especially for their A/C in the summer! But for someone hopping out of a traditional aircraft - even something reasonably high-performance - the learning curve can be steep. 10 hours is quite reasonable and I'd view the insurance requirements (usually 10 hours, maybe not always, that's just my personal experience with it) as bare minimums. There's a lot to keep up with systems-wise especially as you get into the later models with dual everything - even magnetometers! You'll only be able to unlock the power and safety of the platform with knowledge and proficiency, so budget a fair amount of time getting Cirrusized if that's the direction you want to go. If this is only an occasional rental need for you, I'd suggest picking a different platform. Keeping your proficiency up with the Cirrus is a commitment of both time and money.
 
Ryan F. said:
If this is only an occasional rental need for you, I'd suggest picking a different platform. Keeping your proficiency up with the Cirrus is a commitment of both time and money.
Click to expand...
Hi.

What would you say are good minimums for keeping your proficiency for a Cirrus?

How about for a Mooney M20F?

Just for comparison.

Thanks.
 
Justin M said:
Hi.

What would you say are good minimums for keeping your proficiency for a Cirrus?

How about for a Mooney M20F?

Just for comparison.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Really depends on the pilot. Work with a trusted instructor on a program which is appropriate to experience, skill level and intended annual utilization.
 
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