Cost for AD compliance

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
Should the time spent complying with ADs during the Annual inspection be billed separately? or be included in the cost of the annual?

How long does it really take to comply with the new cessna seat AD ? 2011-10-09
 
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Tom-D said:
Should the time spent complying with ADs during the Annual inspection be billed separately? or be included in the cost of the annual?

How long does it really take to comply with the new cessna seat AD ? 2011-10-09
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I don't understand the question.

But let me say this: from this owner's perspective, it doesn't matter to me if the work is part of the required annual inspection tasks or part of the work that is accomplished along with the annual inspection. I consider all of that to be part of the "annual" (note "annual" is not the same as "annual inspection").
 
We tyicaly give it a line item on the bill for our first annual, once I've done the work up once subsiquent reports take less time and are often lumped into the annual

The new Cessna AD is taking me less than an hour, I print the AD or pull it up on my iPad and just sit down with a pair of calipers and knock it out.
 
Bob Noel said:
I don't understand the question.

But let me say this: from this owner's perspective, it doesn't matter to me if the work is part of the required annual inspection tasks or part of the work that is accomplished along with the annual inspection. I consider all of that to be part of the "annual" (note "annual" is not the same as "annual inspection").
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CFR 39 is not a portion of the annual, other than verifying that it is complied with (to be airworthy). I can sign off the annual with out CFR 39 being complied with, any authorized mechanic can comply with ADs and in some cases the pilots /owner can.

So, should I bill that work separately ? Even if it is on the same W/O.
 
...<picks up phone, dials>... Hey, Mr. Customer? I'm doing the billing for your annual. Do you want the AD stuff billed separately, or just a separate line item on the invoice? <pause...> OK, then great. That's what we'll do. Thanks! <click...>


Just guessing. Feel free to ignore me if I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. :)
 
DaleB said:
...<picks up phone, dials>... Hey, Mr. Customer? I'm doing the billing for your annual. Do you want the AD stuff billed separately, or just a separate line item on the invoice? <pause...> OK, then great. That's what we'll do. Thanks! <click...>


Just guessing. Feel free to ignore me if I don't know what the heck I'm talking about. :)
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Ok Dale........ You really need to quit making sense.:yesnod:;):lol:
 
Tom-D said:
CFR 39 is not a portion of the annual, other than verifying that it is complied with (to be airworthy). I can sign off the annual with out CFR 39 being complied with, any authorized mechanic can comply with ADs and in some cases the pilots /owner can.

So, should I bill that work separately ? Even if it is on the same W/O.
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Work that out with the owner. If the owner wants an itemized, give him one.

Do you charge a different rate for the different work?

As an owner, I don't really care if you were to spend 4 hours on the inspection and 10 hours doing other maintenance activities in conjunction with the annual inspection. 14 hours is 14 hours is 14 hours.
 
Tom-D said:
So much for asking a bunch of pilots anything
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Haha. We sometimes don't care how the sausage is made. ;)

If the logbooks come back with "AD complied with" and our wallets are significantly lighter, we generally believe that something appropriate was accomplished.

It's all part of the maintenance religion built by the FAA surrounding turning wrenches. You are the Cleric. We just come to church and put offerings in the plate.

Really nice Clerics will peel back the curtain and allow us to watch sometimes, if their "shop insurance" allows such things.

Incredibly nice Clerics will sign the magical FAA approved scrolls if we do some of the work handing out the offering plates, setting up the chairs, vacuuming the carpet.

;) ;) ;)

80% of aircraft going in for a first-time FAA inspection for an FAA administered ride, don't pass. That would seem to indicate that the Clerics we paid to sign the magical scrolls only have a 20% success rate at keeping them in a state the FAA deems "airworthy" in the magical scrolls.

Meanwhile we flew the crap out of the thing and didn't fall from the sky. So the success rate on the Clerics having accomplished the actual goal of airworthiness, is at least 60% higher than the FAA believes.

We're just happy the Clerics take care of the flock better than they take care of the paperwork. :) :) :)
 
If you have a timekeeping and billing system capable of such things, I think it is appropriate to include separate line items for each labor action, just as you include separate lines for each part in the parts bill. However, that might be difficult to do for a one-man shop like Tom's. OTOH, my next-hangar-door-neighbor mechanic (essentially a back-of-the-truck type) who gives you one total hours line on the bill still tallies a rough work sheet of how many hours he worked on what at the end of each day and has it available if you have questions.

So, I'd say that if you're not going to do that, you should advise the owner in advance so there's no heartache when the unitemized labor bill is presented. It's just business, not personal.
 
So much for asking a bunch of pilots anything
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Tom,

My preference is to provide an inspection flat-rate, regardless of whatever additional work may be required. As you noted, the inspection and the work required are independent. The inspection is just as it sounds; an inspection. Upon discovery of discrepancies or work that needs to be done, the list should be presented to the customer as line items, and an agreement had about what the customer agrees to have done. The customer is made to understand the implications of not having the work done, but must also be informed that the work is separate from the inspection.

Upon agreement by the customer, the work may be done and a bill provided with everything itemized as line items. This should be on the work order presented to the customer, which shoudl be signed, before the work is accomplished. That includes what would seem to be obvious necessities, such as AD compliance, and even simple inspections such as the seat rails.

It's not always convenient to call the customer with each inspection that comes up. However, you can do the inspection when you reach that phase of the annual, and when it comes to billing, consult the customer. If the customer doesn't agree to be billed for that inspection, then don't sign it off. If the customer does agree to pay for that inspection, then sign it off, having already been done. It beats getting out of sequence or nicle-and-diming the customer with one call after another as things are discovered, or as you come to a part of the annual requiring a specific AD compliance or inspection.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you have a timekeeping and billing system capable of such things, I think it is appropriate to include separate line items for each labor action, just as you include separate lines for each part in the parts bill. However, that might be difficult to do for a one-man shop like Tom's. OTOH, my next-hangar-door-neighbor mechanic (essentially a Freelanced A&P-IA) who gives you one total hours line on the bill still tallies a rough work sheet of how many hours he worked on what at the end of each day and has it available if you have questions.

So, I'd say that if you're not going to do that, you should advise the owner in advance so there's no heartache when the unitemized labor bill is presented. It's just business, not personal.
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My customers know up front the inspection is $350.00,That includes aircraft servicing, and the repairs are $50.00 per hour.
The question is, all the new maintenance required to comply with a new AD that is a re-occurring AD should that be part of the inspection, or is that repair/maintenance.

most of my customers pay cash, and don't require me to bill them, but I still must have a number in mind when they ask "How Much"

and some times these questions are simply to find out what People want as part of the Annual.
 
Part of the inspection is a records check for AD compliance and history, along with relevant service bulletins, correctness of 337's, etc. That's all part of the the inspection. AD compliance, on the other hand, falls under work performed, and isn't part of the inspection. This should be charged separately. If you know up front what the customer will need, you can tell the customer at the outset. However, usually this information doesn't crop up until a midpoint in the inspection.

Cash or credit; it should be itemized and charged separately.
 
Didn't you ask this same question a few months ago?

Tom-D said:
Should the time spent complying with ADs during the Annual inspection be billed separately? or be included in the cost of the annual?

How long does it really take to comply with the new cessna seat AD ? 2011-10-09
Click to expand...
 
Tom-D said:
If I did, I forgot the answer.
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So if we give you the answer again can we charge you the going POA rate for correct answers a second time?

If so; would you like to be billed line-item or simply have it included in the total of your POA yearly cost?


:eek::rofl::eek::mad2::yikes::lol::goofy:

Chris
Wise-a$$ in Chief
 
Tom-D said:
Should the time spent complying with ADs during the Annual inspection be billed separately? or be included in the cost of the annual?

How long does it really take to comply with the new cessna seat AD ? 2011-10-09
Click to expand...


Both as a mechanic and as a customer, I like breakdowns on my bills.

Annual Inspection is just that, the inspection, if we agreed to $2k for the annual inspection, it gets a $2k line item. If that inspection turned up an AD, the compliance with that AD gets 2 line items if required, one parts and one labor.

That's my take on things and how I've been billing thing forever, my clients seem to appreciate it even if some of them never look it over because it looks like full disclosure.
 
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