Cost Estimate?

Saraq

Saraq

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Messages
12
Display Name
Display name:
Sara
A3CF0A31-7E32-412D-9186-60C3CF20DC96.jpeg CD6558E3-DAF5-40B7-84CF-FC641DFE177F.jpeg 7B708584-88DD-44E2-9863-597B6FF8E4F7.jpeg 4C2863D9-F05B-4173-A551-E83D48E0EC7D.jpeg C9ED5721-3FEF-41B4-A58F-0FDD30252290.jpeg Hello All!

wanted to post some pictures of some damage and see how much y’all might think I might be looking at for repair costs. The shop is extremely backed up and won’t be able to get to my plane for a while so I figured I would see what the community thought as far as a *very* loose estimate.
 
Saraq said:
how much y’all might think I might be looking at for repair costs.
Click to expand...
What specific aircraft model and year. But no clue on an estimate--no where near enough info. However, while the elevator/stab damage will be reasonable, the tailcone damage could be your main issue depending on the level of disassembly and whether it tweaked the alignment. Are you making an insurance claim? If so you may want to discuss this with them prior to talking to the shop.
 
Saraq said:
Ground loop in Cessna 172 TW conversion.
Click to expand...
If the damage involves any of the tail wheel mod parts you may want to review the STC docs to see what they say about repairs. Or if the STC holder is still in business then call them. A standard Cessna 172 tailcone is fairly easy to repair given part availability but if there are any speciality parts needed to repair a part of the conversion you may want to address this before any repairs take place.
 
I bid $20k!

based on nothing at all.

oddly no photo shows the entire plane. Just these little, pointless vignettes. My response is about as good as the question.
 
The hangar rash the FBO put on mine was 11K for merely one sheet of upper wing skin and the replacement of the outer section of the aft spar (PA-28 wings have 2-piece aft spars). The only puncture was no bigger than 8 inches on the wing and no ribs were damaged by sheer luck. And that includes an aileron re-skin.

This looks a lot more expansive. With inflation running at 5.9% (that's what uncle sammy is giving SS and DOD retirement recipients in 2022), my guess is you're looking at closer to 30K+ all in for that kind of sheet metal work and control surface replacement, and I don't even know what the extent of internal damage is on the empennage. If the fuselage is tweaked at the empennage then forget it.

Global aerospace (same underwriter as I use) caps you at 70% of hull value for a total. So if that thing is insured for less than 50, I think you're getting a check back, not an airplane. Of course, that's the small potatoes, given the whole "misunderstanding" with the representation of the aircraft thing discussed in the prior thread. There's a high potential here for a decline-to-quote on the replacement aircraft if you insist on insuring another taildragger.
 
@Mtns2Skies recently went through a somewhat similar repair. Maybe he can provide some insight on costs.
 
I had flight control damage from a hangar collapse. Elevator, Rudder, Aileron and a few plastic caps got dinged up. Repair cost $23k. This looks to be a bit more extensive with structural damage. I'd guesstimate about $35-$50k considering the gearbox & fuselage damage.
 
hindsight2020 said:
The hangar rash the FBO put on mine was 11K for merely one sheet of upper wing skin and the replacement of the outer section of the aft spar (PA-28 wings have 2-piece aft spars). The only puncture was no bigger than 8 inches on the wing and no ribs were damaged by sheer luck. And that includes an aileron re-skin.

This looks a lot more expansive. With inflation running at 5.9% (that's what uncle sammy is giving SS and DOD retirement recipients in 2022), my guess is you're looking at closer to 30K+ all in for that kind of sheet metal work and control surface replacement, and I don't even know what the extent of internal damage is on the empennage. If the fuselage is tweaked at the empennage then forget it.

Global aerospace (same underwriter as I use) caps you at 70% of hull value for a total. So if that thing is insured for less than 50, I think you're getting a check back, not an airplane. Of course, that's the small potatoes, given the whole "misunderstanding" with the representation of the aircraft thing discussed in the prior thread. There's a high potential here for a decline-to-quote on the replacement aircraft if you insist on insuring another taildragger.
Click to expand...

Still waiting to hear how the brokerage and underwriter are going to handle the claim. For now the underwriter told me to have the shop look at it and give them a cost estimate/breakdown. Initially when they looked at it they didn't think it would cost over 30k, but that was just a quick walk around right after the incident occurred. Honestly, this has me considering going to get my A&P.
 
I would guess north of 30k. I imagine this level of damage also resulted in a prop strike? The plane will likely be totaled then it will be up to you if you want to buy it back and fix it. The plane will need to be disassembled and a jig built to replace the skins. You can probably source a used elevator, can't tell if the first gash is a wing skin or under the horizontal stabilizer. Then you will need paint, engine tear down if there was a prop strike and likely a new prop.
 
Grum.Man said:
I would guess north of 30k. I imagine this level of damage also resulted in a prop strike? The plane will likely be totaled then it will be up to you if you want to buy it back and fix it. The plane will need to be disassembled and a jig built to replace the skins. You can probably source a used elevator, can't tell if the first gash is a wing skin or under the horizontal stabilizer. Then you will need paint, engine tear down if there was a prop strike and likely a new prop.
Click to expand...
No prop damage at all. Here is a picture of the plane post-accident from both sides. Plane Damage Side.jpg Airplane Non-Damage Side.jpg
 
hindsight2020 said:
It does? How so? I don't see any useful connection between the two.
Click to expand...
Apologies, that was just in reference to the shop being backed up (just making jokes where I can) :).
 
Saraq said:
No prop damage at all. Here is a picture of the plane post-accident from both sides. View attachment 101750 View attachment 101751
Click to expand...
Oh ok, I see now the gear folded under the plane and not out. I'd still say 30k especially if you account for paint work. You might get lucky and source a used wing (if that's where the gash is) otherwise that's a pretty big job to re-skin it. The fuselage will be a huge task fixing the gear box, jigging it, and replacing the skins. idk what shop rates are around you but I think it's 125/hr at my local maintenance facility and I could easily see 120-160 hrs of labor plus parts. The insurance company will likely make a decision based on a shop doing all the work, if it's salvaged and you buy it back you could save a lot of money doing the disassembly your self.
 
Bell206 said:
If the damage involves any of the tail wheel mod parts you may want to review the STC docs to see what they say about repairs. Or if the STC holder is still in business then call them. A standard Cessna 172 tailcone is fairly easy to repair given part availability but if there are any speciality parts needed to repair a part of the conversion you may want to address this before any repairs take place.
Click to expand...
@Saraq , some info here about the STC's on that. Do you know which one it was? https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/172-tailwheel-conversion.82560/
 
The gear box is the biggest issue, lots of labor there. The rest isn't that bad, I don't think.
 
An arm and a leg. If the parts are backorder, plan on additional body parts. :frown:
 
I would email some actual shops like Beagles in Colorado. This looks nearly totaled to me.
 
Wagondriver said:
The gear box is the biggest issue, lots of labor there. The rest isn't that bad, I don't think.
Click to expand...
Figure 80 hours of labor plus parts for the gearboxes alone.
 
I think the estimates are going to vary wildly as they are in this thread. It’s going to depend on how interested your shop is.

For my part I couldn't see myself tinkering with that gearbox for 2 weeks. Easy for me to say though.
 
bnt83 said:
I would email some actual shops like Beagles in Colorado. This looks nearly totaled to me.
Click to expand...

You’ll have to ship it, which means removing the wing. If doing that anyway, I would look for a salvage supplier for a used wing, admittedly this might be tough to find.
 
Sorry to see your misfortune. I have no idea what it could cost in today's world. Keep positive and hopefully you can get it repaired.
My plane was damaged by a tornado and totaled by an insurance company in 1990. Everyone said there is no way that this plane should be rebuilt. My late friend bought it from the insurance company and had it rebuilt. I am flying it today. So anything is possible.
Good luck to you.
003.jpg
 
Last edited:
Depends on what it was insured for as to whether they will total it. Other than the gearbox, its really not that bad. I've seen a lot worse rebuilt and still flying. But, what is it worth in flying condition? A good 180 rolled over on its back with a prop strike was recently bought from insurance and rebuilt, sold for $200k after the rebuild.
 
About 5 years ago we had a thumb sized ding in a wing skin. Just a dent, no tearing of the metal: $21,000.
Based on that experience I would expect that the plane is totaled. But then, aircraft insurance only cares what the plane is insured for. If you carry enough hull coverage, they pay for repairs that seem high compared with market value of the plane.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
O-300 unless it was converted.
Click to expand...

I know what its supposed to have, I was asking what is actually in it. IF it has been converted to an o-360 its worth a whole lot more money and possibly wouldn't be totaled. If it was totaled with an o-360 I might be interested in buying it and fixing it.
 
weilke said:
Just a dent, no tearing of the metal: $21,000.
Click to expand...
Curious. What type aircraft and did the dent hit a spar or something structural? Seems a bit high for a skin dent.
Wagondriver said:
If it was totaled with an o-360 I might be interested in buying it and fixing it.
Click to expand...
If it has an O-360 it will probably be gone before you know it. Even the gear damage doesn't look that bad as the bulkheads seem straight. Would be a nice project though. Makes me want to clean up the shop...
 
Bell206 said:
Curious. What type aircraft and did the dent hit a spar or something structural? Seems a bit high for a skin dent.
Click to expand...

Seemed insane. Was the lower of the quotes from two reputable sheetmetal shops. A bonanza and it required pulling the wing off and splitting it.
 
weilke said:
A bonanza and it required pulling the wing off and splitting it.
Click to expand...
Must of hit something substantial under the wing skin. Unfortunately, I don't think there is an easy repair on any Bonanza compared to a Cessna or Piper wing. Always seems to require a lot of labor on Beechcraft structural repairs.
 
My classic car policy has a clause that allows me first option to buy back a totaled car, my common car policy does not.
What is common with airplanes?
 
Bell206 said:
Must of hit something substantial under the wing skin. Unfortunately, I don't think there is an easy repair on any Bonanza compared to a Cessna or Piper wing. Always seems to require a lot of labor on Beechcraft structural repairs.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, must have hit a rib. But no, this was a simple skin replacement. Except that it required pulling the wing off , splitting it at the piano hinge and paint-matching the repair.

This Cessna has landing gear, fuselage, wing and control surface damage. If someone can do this on their own time, buying the banged up plane from insurance and donating your own labor may make this a viable repair.
 
weilke said:
But no, this was a simple skin replacement.
Click to expand...
Key words, skin replacement vs skin repair. Given the Bonanza has a separate repair manual I'm sure the shops like to follow it. But have seen enough Beech structural repairs where common-sense had won out to include repairing wings installed. More curiosity... did you or your mechanic ever inquire why not a simple flush repair on the dent? And since the dent didn't hit any structure was it out-of-limits requiring a repair?
weilke said:
buying the banged up plane from insurance
Click to expand...
While I had preferred weather-damaged projects this one has a certain draw to it. Would make for a nice project with the tailwheel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top