Corona, CA (AJO) 01/22/20

Maybe they were overweight?
 
jallen0 said:
Maybe they were overweight?
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To early to tell. Weather is great here in SoCal today, with cool temperatures. AJO isn't a long runway, but at 3,000' is plenty long enough for typical small GA.
 
schmookeeg said:
If the eyewitness description is accurate, where they wallowed, re-landed, "gunned it", and then re-wallowed nose-high into the crater -- I'd say underskilled.

No idea why you'd choose rwy 7 on a calm day.
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25 has rising terrain/trees. Maybe they knew they were overweight and thought 7 looked better.

Also, I’ve flown in to AJO with the AWOS reporting 180 off of what the winds actually were. So hard to know what the winds actually were. Maybe there was a slight advantage to 7.
 
“They went down the runway to the west and took off to the east … they lifted off the ground, but the tail dropped down, nose was up, so they weren’t gaining altitude,” Coster said. “The plane plopped back down on the runway.

“He steered the plane straight. Instead of stopping and aborting the takeoff, he went ahead and gunned the motor, gained some more airspeed, took off again, but the wingtips were going from one side to the other, and the nose pitched up,” Coster said of the final moments before the crash.


It strikes me as odd that people are saying he “gunned the motor”. Unless he was in a turbo charged engine and decided to overboost it when he figured out he wasn’t going to make the takeoff, how would you gun it? Or maybe there were engine issues that made the RPM drop and rise again?
 
One of the eyewitnesses claimed it was a straight tail Bonanza. If you look at he debris it definitely has a straight tail.
 
If they said he 'gunned it' it makes me think he didn;t have the prop all the way forward. Realized it and pushed it forward making the RPMs climb higher and making it sound like he accelerated.
 
Heftiger said:
It strikes me as odd that people are saying he “gunned the motor”. Unless he was in a turbo charged engine and decided to overboost it when he figured out he wasn’t going to make the takeoff, how would you gun it? Or maybe there were engine issues that made the RPM drop and rise again?
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Another possibility is accidentally not having the prop control full forward and realizing it at the last minute, but the description from bystanders suggests that the pilot also passed up a good opportunity to abort the take off.
 
dbahn said:
Another possibility is accidentally not having the prop control full forward and realizing it at the last minute, but the description from bystanders suggests that the pilot also passed up a good opportunity to abort the take off.
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Corona is not short but it isn't long. May have panicked, threw the blue lever forward and just pulled back to clear the fence.

My instructor told me when I took my first few lessons that if I wanted to depart the runway just slightly pull back. If I want to land hard pull back hard.
 
In a heavy A36, you can need a fair bit of runway to get up to speed. The "gun the engine" remark has me confused also. I like the prop theory. That'd certainly add a few hundred to your takeoff roll requirement.

Rwy 25 lacks a fence on the far end and has that nice cutout in the trees that might have been what he needed to get that boat aloft.

Shame.
 
Friction on the throttle or prop set to loose? That has gotten quite a few pilots over the years, many different types and manufacturers.;

Short of expected performance? stop, fix the problem, then try again.

I have started a takeoff with greatly reduced power available, realized there was a problem before mid field, and sorted out the cause. Watching airspeed in relation of percentage of runway used is important.
 
I don't trust witness accounts unless they come from pilots, and even then I don't trust them much. Witnesses are always claiming they saw smoke, heard the engine running rough and all sorts of things.
 
For those of us that are model airplane descendants, it’s been reported that one of the occupants killed was Joe Zingali, founder of Zinger props.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
If they said he 'gunned it' it makes me think he didn;t have the prop all the way forward. Realized it and pushed it forward making the RPMs climb higher and making it sound like he accelerated.
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Maybe mixture? Like he had it 'ground leaned?'
 
luvflyin said:
Maybe mixture? Like he had it 'ground leaned?'
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Mixture would make the engine studder or die and you would notice that as soon as you moved the throttle forward at the start of the takeoff roll. Especially on a turbo plane.
 
Jamie Kirk said:
Mixture would make the engine studder or die and you would notice that as soon as you moved the throttle forward at the start of the takeoff roll. Especially on a turbo plane.
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Maybe it stuttered and he pushed the mixture in giving the 'gunning' the engine sound the witness heard. I dunno, I never flew a Bonanzee much less a Turbo. Just a thought
 
luvflyin said:
Maybe it stuttered and he pushed the mixture in giving the 'gunning' the engine sound the witness heard. I dunno, I never flew a Bonanzee much less a Turbo. Just a thought
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I don't have a Bonanza but I have a Saratoga II TC and when leaned for Taxi I can't even get up to 1700 RPMs for the runup without the engine sputtering. Witness says it sounded like he gunned it after floating back down to the runway after not being able to lift off. I don't think he would not have made it that far full throttle leaned out.
 
Tail looked Bonanza. If over gross not a lot of runway but enough if you don't try to horse it off too early. A heavy Bo does not dig out well when dirty and behind the power curve. Reminds me of a Cameron Air Park crash about 10 years or so ago.
 
luvflyin said:
Maybe mixture? Like he had it 'ground leaned?'
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Isn’t it normal procedure to stay full rich at that altitude? I don’t know I learned to fly at 4000 feet base elevation.
 
woodchucker said:
Isn’t it normal procedure to stay full rich at that altitude? I don’t know I learned to fly at 4000 feet base elevation.
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What I was thinking of is ‘ground leaning’ to avoid fouling the plugs during taxi. Then forgetting to go full rich before taking off.
 
Heftiger said:
25 has rising terrain/trees. Maybe they knew they were overweight and thought 7 looked better.

Also, I’ve flown in to AJO with the AWOS reporting 180 off of what the winds actually were. So hard to know what the winds actually were. Maybe there was a slight advantage to 7.
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Agreed on the AWOS at AJO. I used to be based at AJO. Taking off 25 is actually lower terrain until after 71 freeway (yes, there are the trees to the west though). Taking off 7 is uphill - the end of 7 is almost 20' lower than the end of 25. 25 is preferred in generally all conditions, except northeast/east winds such as the santa anas. Along with uphill rwy 7, you have the fence and powerlines at the end, and now the massive berm being built in the field east of the runway.

That said, winds weren't really blowing that day and shouldn't have really been a huge factor.
 
luvflyin said:
What I was thinking of is ‘ground leaning’ to avoid fouling the plugs during taxi. Then forgetting to go full rich before taking off.
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on take, I repeat and touch:
Lights, camera, action.
Think yoke forward on lost engine.
 
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