Copyrighted material

Greebo

Greebo

N9017H - C172M (1976)
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Retired Evil Overlord
Copyrighted material may not be reproduced here, especially when its POSTED copyrighted on the material. Thread containing such has been deleted.

And please remember our cautions about negative remarks about fellow members of the aviation community at large.

Thank you.
 
Greebo said:
Copyrighted material may not be reproduced here, especially when its POSTED copyrighted on the material. Thread containing such has been deleted.

And please remember our cautions about negative remarks about fellow members of the aviation community at large.

Thank you.
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So then, if the same news article I posted were posted in the same way, but without the copyrighted image (say....a different, non-offensive image), you wouldn't have deleted the thread?
 
Reporting on facts is fine. The image in question was reproduced from a site that had created the image themselves, without permission.
 
Greebo said:
Copyrighted material may not be reproduced here, especially when its POSTED copyrighted on the material. Thread containing such has been deleted.

And please remember our cautions about negative remarks about fellow members of the aviation community at large.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Special treatment for MAG again?

There is a lot of cleaning up of copyrighted material that you'll need to do over the spin zone. Seems a lot gets posted each day without any issues being brought forward about it to the members. Why now on whatever this thread was directed too?
 
smigaldi said:
Special treatment for MAG again?
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Nope.
There is a lot of cleaning up of copyrighted material that you'll need to do over the spin zone. Seems a lot gets posted each day without any issues being brought forward about it to the members.
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We do not, nay cannot, monitor every post for RoC compliance. However, when an RoC violation is brought to our attention, we act. In this case, the copyright holder complained, so we acted.

For PoA policy on this subject, please see the RoC (which bans "material that breaks any law," including copyright law). If you have questions on the proper use of copyrighted material, please see Standford University's excellent material on that subject.
 
Without disputing the validity of the Stanford link (which states as fact "IF in doubt, ask"....never seen that law), I understand that you guys received a complaint (which should have been mentioned, rather than just giving the impression that you actually buy into his crap. Why was a post I made saying simply "What about a Non-MAG shirt?" No copyright violation, no slam on a fellow aviator, whether he's too chicken to post here or not, nothing except the words "Non-MAG" which appear in many of your member's signature lines.

Y'all are too quick to pull posts that involve Martin Aviation Group. And Troy, if you're reading this - I still have that picture on my website. Why don't you threaten to sue me, see what happens. NickDBrennan@comcast.net or if you prefer to be a bit more lawyerly, either call (505)715-7392 or write to 3308 Wellesley Ct. NE, Albuquerque NM, 87107.

I'm not afraid to fight you and your ludicrous claims. Anyone want to see the picture can go to my website in my profile. Its a doozy, and certainly worthy of being copyrighted. Methinks he doesn't even understand the point behind a press-release photograph.

Troy: You'll never get business by attempting to restrict press-photos of your plans.

This post will be deleted, I'm sure of it. It does, after all, have the word "MAG" in it.
 
SkyHog said:
Why was a post I made saying simply "What about a Non-MAG shirt?" No copyright violation,
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You included a picture including the clear label "Copyright (c) 2006 Martin Aviation Group" without obtaining Martin Aviation Group's permission to reprint that picture. That is an open-and-shut copyright violation.

This post will be deleted, I'm sure of it. It does, after all, have the word "MAG" in it.
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You are wrong. Nothing in the above post violates the PoA RoC. However, as friendly advice, I would say that it violates good sense to challenge here someone who has already shown willingness to do so to take legal action over a clear violation of copyright law on your own site.
 
Ron Levy said:
You included a picture including the clear label "Copyright (c) 2006 Martin Aviation Group" without obtaining Martin Aviation Group's permission to reprint that picture. That is an open-and-shut copyright violation.
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Not necessarily. Because it was non commercial use, you could argue that it would fall under the fair use doctrine, depending, of course on whether could be construed to be part of a greater work. And satirical use is nearly always legit.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Not necessarily. Because it was non commercial use, you could argue that it would fall under the fair use doctrine, depending, of course on whether could be construed to be part of a greater work. And satirical use is nearly always legit.
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I was about to mention the fair use provision

In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and "transformative" purpose such as to comment upon, criticize or parody a copyrighted work.
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From the Standford web page you sent out Ron.

Ken is right on this issue and this comes up where I work a lot because of the nature of my job and time and time again our attorneys have told us that Fair Use is applicable.
 
Ron Levy said:
You included a picture including the clear label "Copyright (c) 2006 Martin Aviation Group" without obtaining Martin Aviation Group's permission to reprint that picture. That is an open-and-shut copyright violation.
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I got that post. I'm talking about in the POA Apparel thread. Greebo's been going crazy deleting my posts left and right lately. If it has the word "MAG" or Martin Aviation Group in it, it's gotta be defamatory!

The thread went like this:
------------------------------------
From Skyhog:
How about a non-MAG shirt?

From Capecodejay:
LOL, I'd go for that.
------------------------------------

Boom - not exact quote from Jay, but it is from me, and just like that, both posts were deleted. Unbelievable.


And I'm not worried about his lawsuit. He doesn't have the guts to try to sue someone over something in which he has no case.
 
Regarding fair use, I think it's safe to speak for the rest of the PoA MC in saying we neither want nor need to engage in any significant legal battle on this issue. The copyright holder demanded removal under threat of legal action, and we complied because we felt the negligible value of having that picture on our site wasn't worth the expense or effort to fight it. That's a management decision not subject to a subscriber vote.

As for the shirt business, that was shut off due to its turn down a homophobic path in violation of well-established PoA policy on insulting language.
 
Well, strictly speaking, it was a polite request on the part of the copyright holder. However, had we refused, legal action would certainly have been justifiable on their part.
 
Greebo said:
legal action would certainly have been justifiable on their part.
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Actually as I understand it, based on previous caselaw, the copyright violation is generally the fault of the poster and not the responsiblity of the forum.

Apple (which has by far a better legal team than Troy) is often unable to get their copyright material removed from forums as they forced to pursue the individual not the forum. Not only that fair-use is generally a show stopper.

It's amazing forums such as SomethingAwful which has a very..uh..relaxed policy even exist. They have tens of thousands of members whom post all kinds of crap. They receive legal threats and simply tell the lawyer where to stick it www.somethingawful.com/legal[/b]
 
Actually as I understand it, based on previous caselaw, the copyright violation is generally the fault of the poster and not the responsiblity of the forum.
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If we failed to act once notified, yes.

Once we're aware of an infringement, if we fail to act, we're liable.

Somethingawful is a parody/satire site which has some additional protections. I don't doubt that they have their own legal teams, as well. We don't.

This site is privately owned and funded. It does not have the luxury of dealing with legal issues and we don't have any inclination to try to fight battles we don't agree with.
 
Jesse,

They're also a commercial site and have legal resources available to them that we don't.
 
What Bill said.

So very often (and trust the lawyer on this point), the issue is not whether you are right; it's whether you can survive the battle.

Overarching message: we can achieve our goals here- having a welcoming and enjoyable aviation neighborhood- without ever discussing our very own "HWMNBN."

And who knew we'd ever have such a beast?

===

PS- I want POA apparel, and I don't give a rat's hind tail scale about whether any part of it looks straight, gay or neutered (I sorta missed the whole homophobic thing....).
 
Actually SomethingAwful is privately ran by one single individual. Although they now probably have enough funding to put up a battle I highly doubt a few years ago they did.

How did they grow to their size? They became know as the forum that does not put up with ****.
 
Fascinating,

I want a POA tshirt with a pocket, those are the best. Preferably white, long sleeve is good, excellent for glidering.
 
The **** they don't put up with stems from the **** they do put up with. We're not interested in the **** they are.
 
I want a polo shirt with an embroidered flying rat's tail!
 
Greebo said:
The **** they don't put up with stems from the **** they do put up with. We're not interested in the **** they are.
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A forum which allows its members to post almost anything it wants, as long as it is on topic and isn't trolling or stupid.

Makes sense to me, I wouldn't want to be a part of a community like that either!
 
It seems like someone has a boot wish....
 
copyright.jpg
 
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