Controlled Airspace Apprehensions, VFR

T

texaspete

Guest
Hello PoA,

I am fresh off my instrument rating and feeling really great about my progress. Except that I have an issue with controlled airspace under VFR, especially unfamiliar controlled airspace. During my instrument PIC XC timebuilding I would select class D airports as destinations but between long-winded & dense ATIS recordings and the of flurry activity on the tower frequency I would just divert to a nearby untowered airport (even if it was much busier). I just don't want to get into class D airspace and f### up.

I have no issues flying IFR. Flying either the standardized IAP or being vectored eliminates the guesswork.

I think this anxiety largely stems from my disapproval for my PPL. On my checkride I was taken to a "surprise" class D that was significantly out of the way (this DPE had never done this before according to the school) and when instructed to enter at the downwind I took a very wide looping turn to enter that downwind on a 45 as I was accustomed to at uncontrolled airports. ATC queried me on what I was doing, then the DPE insisted I was entering the pattern for the wrong runway and I foolishly did not protest. Later I found out that he was making comments that he was making all his money on re-test fees and I was only one of many disapprovals in a short timespan. I am over the anger of that situation and I know better than to use it as an excuse, but I think I have a bonafide issue on my hands here that I need to get over.

As I work towards my commercial I need to sort this out and put it behind me. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
 
easy peasy. call 'em up. do what they tell you to do. sounds like you need to go up with a primary CFI and get some delta work in. bounce around to a coupl'a deltas and you'll be fine. hopefully.
 
Take a CFI to multiple Class D’s. Get that stuff out of your system. (Yeah, what Eman said).

Call 10 miles out, after getting ATIS - who you want, who you are, where you are, what you want, and which ATIS you got.

I’ll use the heading bug of my HSI to mark wind direction.

They’ll typically tell you what runway to expect, and R or L traffic, and when to call them back (examples: report 3 NM out or report midfield R downwind).

At this point I use the HSI arrow to mark the runway. Now I can confirm what I visualized.

Then I call when I’m 3 NM out or midfield downwind. Then they tell me either I’m cleared for landing or they’ll call out traffic in the pattern if I’m not #1. If I see the traffic, they’ll clear me for landing. If not, they’ll typically give me directions or let me know “no factor” and cleared for landing.

It’s either going to be R or L traffic, entering direct downwind or midfield entry, or enter left base or straight-in. There’s really not much more - no cross midfield, no funny button-hooks, etc.
 
Last edited:
Compartmentalization. Plain and simple. Don’t worry about screwing up, just worry about being safe and being able to get your intentions to the controller. And remember to speak English… I’m not being snarky, people get wrapped up in pilotese whatever that is… just speak English, “say again” is your friend. Even resort to “it’s not clear to me what you are asking, can you call my turns?”

Do that about twice, apprehension will diminish and you’ll do fine.

Controllers usually don’t care about “all textbook perfect” either. They just wanna feel confident you understand what they are saying, or that you’ll fess up that you don’t.
 
What's to f### up? Just do what they tell you to do. They're not going to ask you to solve differential equations in your head. They're going to ask you to fly a heading, or enter a left downwind for a runway, or start the approach from a fix. These are straightforward things that you know how to do if you have an IR. Just do them a few times and exorcise the demons. As others have said, take a CFI with you if you need some support.

Tens of thousands of people fly into Deltas every day without f###ing up. You can, too.
 
Start by reading 14 CFR 91.126 through 91.131. Pay particular attention to the differences in the regulations between airports with, and without, operating control towers.

Spoiler alert, there are fewer requirements that you have to comply with other than complying with ATC instructions.

ATC is only going to require a full traffic pattern if doing so is required for traffic sequencing or to provide runway separation. Since ATC is handling that, there's no need for a proper "AIM" pattern because ATC will provide the sequencing and point out the other traffic. ATC will expect you to fly more directly to wherever they have told you to go.

Then, go fly to some airports with operating control towers.
 
I did all my training in D, so I got started on day 1.

They are all pretty much the same. Get the ATIS or ASOS early. Since you’re comfortable with instrument approaches this should be automatic.

Have an airport diagram handy, note your current position. Anticipate where they will want you to enter the pattern, then call them up. Who you are, where you are, what you want, no different than any other radio work.

Then just do what they tell you. Enter and fly the pattern they give you.

The real potential for excitement is when there is other traffic around and you need situational awareness. They’ll probably call out traffic and want you to tell them when it’s in sight. You might get “cleared to land #2” or something like that when you’re on downwind and another plane is on final. I was trained to turn base when we crossed wingtips. Otherwise you can ask tower to call your base.

It’s not that big a deal. Find a nearby D and do pattern work for a while. Request left or right traffic and alternate a few times, request the option and the rwy is pretty much yours. Request a short approach (“if able”) and practice an engine out. Just go and have fun with it.
 
When I was either a student pilot or a new pilot at an unfamiliar airport, I remember getting confused about my location relative to where Tower told me to enter the pattern. (This was before moving-map GPS receivers became available.) When I realized I was on the wrong side of the airport, I just told the controller "I think I'm in the wrong spot," and he just gave me new instructions and everything was fine.

More recently, a tower controller told me to fly via a landmark that I was unfamiliar with. I just told him "not familiar with that landmark," and he gave me alternate instructions.
 
Last edited:
Part of class D apprehension might include how to enter the pattern as cleared by Tower
- where and when to turn, and which direction to turn (to enter the pattern).

Consider a ground lesson with an instructor.

Focus on scenarios to help practice communications and orientation.

Use a sectional and point to a flight path which complies with the ‘practice’ pattern entry (as issued by the CFI).

Practice should help with building a mental picture for pattern entry.
So from whatever direction to the airport, and no matter what the runway orientation is, complying with pattern entry becomes more … familiar.

-Why a paper sectional and printed airport diagram?
-What about programming EFB to display pattern entry on moving map?

Technology is a great tool, but moving maps, EFBs, etc. are not PIC.
The most powerful processor a pilot must always engage remains unchanged: gray matter between ears; input fed by mark one eyeball.

Pete, sounds like you’re on the right path and a little practice with ‘building a mental picture’ for orientation, … any apprehension for class D operations will be in the past.
Good luck with Commercial-ASEL!
 
how can you be ifr rated and afraid of ATC? all you have to do is follow directions. get flight following if possible, that way you're already talking to someone and it's even harder to screwup
 
Matthew said:
I did all my training in D, so I got started on day 1.

They are all pretty much the same. Get the ATIS or ASOS early. Since you’re comfortable with instrument approaches this should be automatic.

Have an airport diagram handy, note your current position. Anticipate where they will want you to enter the pattern, then call them up. Who you are, where you are, what you want, no different than any other radio work.

Then just do what they tell you. Enter and fly the pattern they give you.

The real potential for excitement is when there is other traffic around and you need situational awareness. They’ll probably call out traffic and want you to tell them when it’s in sight. You might get “cleared to land #2” or something like that when you’re on downwind and another plane is on final. I was trained to turn base when we crossed wingtips. Otherwise you can ask tower to call your base.

It’s not that big a deal. Find a nearby D and do pattern work for a while. Request left or right traffic and alternate a few times, request the option and the rwy is pretty much yours. Request a short approach (“if able”) and practice an engine out. Just go and have fun with it.
Click to expand...
I print the diagram any time I'm going to a new airport, draw the entries for each of the runways, highlight the freqs. I've even been know to crank up XPlane or MSFS or Google and "fly" the area to see the geography for familiarization.
 
Yoy'll notice in the responses so far how easy it is for the people responding. It will be for you as well. You're just in a little bit of a "transition" period. Attack it head on. Head for class B, C and D airspace, with an instructor if you like. Always use flight following so you are more familiar and more comfortable with ATC instructions.
texaspete said:
During my instrument PIC XC timebuilding I would select class D airports as destinations but between long-winded & dense ATIS recordings and the of flurry activity on the tower frequency I would just divert to a nearby untowered airport (even if it was much busier). I just don't want to get into class D airspace and f### up.
Click to expand...
If you're uncomfortable with managing the class D, a BUSY non-towerd field is where you DON'T want to go.
 
Schedule time with a CFI and go to multiple D's or even C's if there is one near you. You'll be fine after one flight.
 
A piece that helped during my training was listening to the other inbounds and building that mental picture of what tower is doing. At my local, if you are coming from the north, they’ll have you land 7R and then side step 7L if you want it. Coming from the south, you’ll get 7R. Coming from west of the airport, you’ll be told to enter on the downwind. Otherwise, enter on the base or report a 3 mile final. D towers are good at cutting out the airport entry permutations - they’ll have you do straight-in, left or right traffic to the runway, etc., no overflying the field, if they can do it safely. If it is busier then they’ll fit you in to the established pattern. And my experience is transients will get priority over student traffic so they may offer you a shortcut.
 
murphey said:
I print the diagram any time I'm going to a new airport, draw the entries for each of the runways, highlight the freqs. I've even been know to crank up XPlane or MSFS or Google and "fly" the area to see the geography for familiarization.
Click to expand...
I take a printed diagram, too. I think every towered airport has an official PDF. I even keep a paper copy of my own airport in my kneeboard to quickly verify taxi directions. My first cfi also had me pencil in my pattern entry plan.

My home Delta does not have ATIS. But part if an ATIS broadcast generally includes “…landing and departing runway xx” so you’re going to get a pretty good idea of how you’ll be routed. If it doesn’t make sense, ask.
 
Also, work on a compass view everywhere you go, i.e. "I'm heading north. How would I approach runway xx?" It's a good mental exercise.
 
Maybe spend some time listening to LiveATC for busy class D's in your area AND simultaneously watching the traffic on FlightAware or FlightRadar24, and see how the reporting and instructions synch up with where everyone is.
 
eman1200 said:
easy peasy. call 'em up. do what they tell you to do. sounds like you need to go up with a primary CFI and get some delta work in. bounce around to a coupl'a deltas and you'll be fine. hopefully.
Click to expand...
This is really what it sounds like is needed.

It's really not all that uncommon for those who have trained in a nontowered environment to have very little towered airport experience beyond the 61.109 minimum requirements for three solo takeoffs and landings at the exact same now-familiar airport where the CFI took them once or twice. There are stories out there of pilots getting completely disoriented when Tower says, "enter right downwind," when the preflight planning said it was a left traffic airport!

Experience is the key. It really doesn't take much and really, it's best with a CFI who can watch, help when you are confused, and make suggestions during a debrief. You might even consider videoing the flight. I actually did one of these recently - pilot with little Class D and no Class C experience wanting to do a flight into a Class C. We videoed the entire flight from start up to shut down which gave the pilot the tools to do a very effective post-flight self-critique. He said he learned a huge amount from it.

texaspete said:
I have no issues flying IFR. Flying either the standardized IAP or being vectored eliminates the guesswork.
Click to expand...

I don't know how much IFR experience you have, but a visual approach may well be the most common IFR approach in the real world. So, unless you are prepared to insist on an IAP at a busy towered airport in CAVU conditions, you will be faced with the same issue, IFR or VFR. So go get that extended training. The standard three-legged traffic pattern is still relevant, but there really isn't much in the way of guesswork the second you realize that the "enter left downwind " means "present position direct to the downwind leg." Depending where you are that may be a 45 or or 30 or a straight-in extension or...
 
texaspete said:
Hello PoA,

I am fresh off my instrument rating and feeling really great about my progress. Except that I have an issue with controlled airspace under VFR, especially unfamiliar controlled airspace. During my instrument PIC XC timebuilding I would select class D airports as destinations but between long-winded & dense ATIS recordings and the of flurry activity on the tower frequency I would just divert to a nearby untowered airport (even if it was much busier). I just don't want to get into class D airspace and f### up.

I have no issues flying IFR. Flying either the standardized IAP or being vectored eliminates the guesswork.

I think this anxiety largely stems from my disapproval for my PPL. On my checkride I was taken to a "surprise" class D that was significantly out of the way (this DPE had never done this before according to the school) and when instructed to enter at the downwind I took a very wide looping turn to enter that downwind on a 45 as I was accustomed to at uncontrolled airports. ATC queried me on what I was doing, then the DPE insisted I was entering the pattern for the wrong runway and I foolishly did not protest. Later I found out that he was making comments that he was making all his money on re-test fees and I was only one of many disapprovals in a short timespan. I am over the anger of that situation and I know better than to use it as an excuse, but I think I have a bonafide issue on my hands here that I need to get over.

As I work towards my commercial I need to sort this out and put it behind me. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Texas is a big place. If you’re in DFW email me and we’ll go hit sone Deltas and work it out.
 
texaspete said:
Hello PoA,

I am fresh off my instrument rating and feeling really great about my progress. Except that I have an issue with controlled airspace under VFR, especially unfamiliar controlled airspace. During my instrument PIC XC timebuilding I would select class D airports as destinations but between long-winded & dense ATIS recordings and the of flurry activity on the tower frequency I would just divert to a nearby untowered airport (even if it was much busier). I just don't want to get into class D airspace and f### up.

I have no issues flying IFR. Flying either the standardized IAP or being vectored eliminates the guesswork.

I think this anxiety largely stems from my disapproval for my PPL. On my checkride I was taken to a "surprise" class D that was significantly out of the way (this DPE had never done this before according to the school) and when instructed to enter at the downwind I took a very wide looping turn to enter that downwind on a 45 as I was accustomed to at uncontrolled airports. ATC queried me on what I was doing, then the DPE insisted I was entering the pattern for the wrong runway and I foolishly did not protest. Later I found out that he was making comments that he was making all his money on re-test fees and I was only one of many disapprovals in a short timespan. I am over the anger of that situation and I know better than to use it as an excuse, but I think I have a bonafide issue on my hands here that I need to get over.

As I work towards my commercial I need to sort this out and put it behind me. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like you are not qualified for your PPL certificate and aren’t qualified for your IR either. Part of your IR is a visual approach, which will may involve entering a pattern at a controlled airport.
 
Clip4 said:
Sounds to me like you are not qualified for your PPL certificate and aren’t qualified for your IR either. Part of your IR is a visual approach, which will may involve entering a pattern at a controlled airport.
Click to expand...
Everyone has gaps in knowledge. identifying your gaps is important, and this pilot has. You made a simple, but glaring mistake in the quoted post. Does that mean you are illiterate? No.
 
Clip4 said:
Sounds to me like you are not qualified for your PPL certificate and aren’t qualified for your IR either. Part of your IR is a visual approach, which will may involve entering a pattern at a controlled airport.
Click to expand...
I think if you asked 100 random pilots whether they did a visual approach as part of the training for the rating, there might be three yesses. :D
 
Dude, I am where you are except not IFR rated. I am getting back into flying after several years away for various reasons. On my next flight I'm going to a class D just to get it out of the way and get re acquainted with them. I plan to write down my first call to them, with a predetermined location, altitude, etc, ask for a touch and go and a departure direction. I have blanks on my paper for notes on what I think they will say to read back to them. I will have the airport diagram in my lap and a pencil and be listening from as far as possible to maybe know which runway to expect. I plan to not screw it up, but In life I often find that the small mistakes is what burns the correct knowledge into my brain.
In listening to youtube I find that most time the controllers want you to do well for me and them and want to help. I feel that if I get through a few episodes of helpful people I won't be too alarmed if someone is having a bad day. That is my mindset to get through this and I will post again after that flight.
It sounds like you and I both have what we need except just going and get it done.

David
 
Jim_R said:
What's to f### up? Just do what they tell you to do. They're not going to ask you to solve differential equations in your head. They're going to ask you to fly a heading, or enter a left downwind for a runway, or start the approach from a fix.
Click to expand...

I've had issues at a couple of Class D's that were training ATC facilities. One ATC error resulted in me getting chewed out on frequency and told to 360 twice in the downwind ... I parked and as approaching tower, supervisor came out and said everything fine, trainee lost control, no need to "mark the tapes" as it was their error ...
 
It's not hard.

Here's who I am - N1234P
Here's where I am - 10 miles northeast at 2000'
Here's what I know - I have information Foxtrot
Here's what I want to do - Inbound for pattern work

Everything else is on tower to tell you what they want (report five miles etc)
 
I sometimes hear people on freq and it’s pretty obvious they are working on towered operations for the first time. Controllers can tell, they’ll work with you.

Here are some things to think about:

Position reports: this sounds easy, but it can screw things up. Reporting 10 west when you meant 10 east happens to everyone sometime. But it’s more likely when you are nervous and thinking, “OK, the field is 10 west of me, don’t mess this up!” and you mess it up.

Situational awareness: just like at a non towered field, build that picture in your head. There might be faster aircraft coming in, so think about how tower might space you.

The pattern: you might be told to expect a particular pattern entry, you’ll probably be given a “report …” instruction. You might be asked to extend your downwind for spacing or be asked to do a 360. You might be told to follow other traffic. If you are going to stay in the pattern you might be given left or right traffic. Just roll with it and don’t forget to verify your landing clearance.

See and avoid: this is still your responsibility.

Relax and have fun with it.
 
Caveat… expecting a certain what ever REALLY sets you up for expectation bias.

It’s worth the risk, but the risk is mitigated by being VERY cognizant of it.

Hehe, a buddy of mine, WHO LIVES THERE, has been flying there for 30 plus years… about shut down the entire Oshkosh arrival last year due to this! They basically told everyone to circle and said “just land”… and life went on!

First thing he told me, “Tools, I was expecting blah blah blah… I always get blah blah blah.” All’s well that ends well, but it’s a thing.
 
Last edited:
I have a good friend who is a tower/approach controller at an airport in Class C airspace. He still uses "student pilot" at unfamiliar airports. It doesn't have to be on your certificate, and apparently no one really cares if it isn't. :)
 
Matthew said:
Reporting 10 west when you meant 10 east happens to everyone sometime. But it’s more likely when you are nervous and thinking, “OK, the field is 10 west of me, don’t mess this up!” and you mess it up.
Click to expand...

It helps me to glance at the DG. Where I’m going is at the top (“northeast” for example), so where I am (“southwest of the field”) is at the bottom.
 
Half Fast said:
It helps me to glance at the DG. Where I’m going is at the top (“northeast” for example), so where I am (“southwest of the field”) is at the bottom.
Click to expand...
Biggest sequence of blunders I had is probably still out there in the Youtubes somewhere. No tower this time. I was towing gliders that day and one of the guys was doing his first solo. He had a GoPro running to record his flight. After release he re-entered the pattern to land and I started my own return to the pattern. That was the day I think I flew 4 different aircraft. So his video recorded me in the background saying something brilliant like “…Cessna 84…wait…Warri…Glider 6…no, hang on, Cessna xxxxx, 2 east…correction, 2 WEST…”

The most excitement I had at a class D was when I was about 10 south for a straight in. Tower told me to report a 2 mile final. Not more than a few seconds later tower cleared me to land. I told tower I was still 8 south and asked if that call was for me. Tower went silent for a little bit then exploded. Another aircraft had entered on a right base and had turned final in front of me, all without getting any airspace clearance. Tower lit him up, cleared him to land, switched him to ground and continued the chewing.

Don’t be that guy.

Good times.
 
Last edited:
the truth is, the most difficult class B is only half as complex as a really busy untowered airport. you're really stressing about nothing.
worse comes to worse just say in plain english what you want, done.

okay only partially true, the most busy class B's may just tell you to go away
 
midlifeflyer said:
I think if you asked 100 random pilots whether they did a visual approach as part of the training for the rating, there might be three yesses. :D
Click to expand...
What percentage would have had the training, but didn’t remember it? :eek:
danhagan said:
I've had issues at a couple of Class D's that were training ATC facilities.
Click to expand...
All ATC facilities are training facilities.
 
MackMooney said:
the truth is, the most difficult class B is only half as complex as a really busy untowered airport. you're really stressing about nothing.
worse comes to worse just say in plain english what you want, done.
Click to expand...
Most of that is based on experience. Some pilots who train and primarily fly nontowered get put off by ATC mic fright. The reverse is also true. Some pilots who train and primarily fly towered get put off by the “chaos” of nontowered ops.

I did one of those coordinated Angel Flight handoffs years ago. The pilot I was meeting wanted nontowered. I had to push for the Class C primary because it had a restaurant. The other pilot gave finally gave in. I arrived early and had lunch. Then they arrived. We were the only two aircraft that arrived or departed the whole time we were there.
 
MauleSkinner said:
All ATC facilities are training facilities.
Click to expand...

We were spoiled in that our Class C during my training back in 2006-07 had no trainees. Texas had a law in place that forced all commercial traffic leaving the state to make one landing ... our field was a super busy Class C. Our controllers would use all three runways simultaneously without any issues and often had as high as 20 aircraft in their airspace at a time. Now, if there are more than 2, the new controllers have issues .... runway 26R is basically only able to be used by GA aircraft due to runway length and the trainee controllers forget they can shift load to that runway ...
 
Back
Top