Considering VFR Commercial

G-Man

G-Man

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I'm considering a VFR Commercial. Good or bad idea?

A friend commented: "If PPL is Flying 101, then Commercial is Flying 201. The way I looked at it was rather than making me a "commercial pilot," it made me a better private pilot."

I like this, since as a renter/hobby pilot it's difficult to maintain proficiency, let alone increase skills. I'd probably get my IFR later - does that require a second checkride?

I'm a 235-hour VFR pilot just north of Denver, Colorado. Mostly renting Cessna 182 (some Cessna 172). Did some IFR training, but it's rusty and I'd redo it. Scant flyable IFR around here, though I value the ability to fly 'within the system.'

I've probably done most of the Commercial requirements, except night flights. (Assuming the VFR requirements are the same as IFR Commercial?)
How do the new standards affect a VFR Commercial?
What other Pros and Cons to consider? Thanks!
 
It's not very practical because of the resultant 50-mile/day only limitation, but it makes no difference for the single engine commercial checkride, it's the same either way. The aforementioned limitation is automatically removed when you get your instrument rating.
 
The limitations do restrict you from doing cross country flights for hire but you can do some for hire work, for instance:

Fly skydivers
Tow gliders
Tow banners
Crop dust
Air tour <50 nm

Plus it counts as a flight review and as you noted, builds skills and proficiency. No real reason not to do it.
 
Nothing wrong with a VFR commercial, especially if you're not planning on making a living with it. ;) Although I have known a few guys who had pretty good careers with Ljmited Commercial certificates.

As mentioned, there are some pretty strict limitations on passenger carrying commercial ops, but you CAN get paid to fly somebody's airplane to the avionics shop.

I haven't looked at the requirements since I did mine 30 years ago, but there is a requirement for about 10 hours of instrument instruction even for the VFR commercial.
 
G-Man said:
I'm considering a VFR Commercial. Good or bad idea?

A friend commented: "If PPL is Flying 101, then Commercial is Flying 201. The way I looked at it was rather than making me a "commercial pilot," it made me a better private pilot."

I like this, since as a renter/hobby pilot it's difficult to maintain proficiency, let alone increase skills. I'd probably get my IFR later - does that require a second checkride?

I'm a 235-hour VFR pilot just north of Denver, Colorado. Mostly renting Cessna 182 (some Cessna 172). Did some IFR training, but it's rusty and I'd redo it. Scant flyable IFR around here, though I value the ability to fly 'within the system.'

I've probably done most of the Commercial requirements, except night flights. (Assuming the VFR requirements are the same as IFR Commercial?)
How do the new standards affect a VFR Commercial?
What other Pros and Cons to consider? Thanks!
Click to expand...

IFR is a different ride. Even if you are doing it all pretty much at the same time. Now I could be wrong about this. Maybe there is a DE out there who will do it all at once in the air. There will be two sets of paperwork sent in though. One for Commercial and one for the IR. If your goal is to just be a better pilot by performing up to Commercial standards then why not just do that and skip the checkride? Although after all that work I'd sure throw a couple more hundred at it and get the ticket.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The limitations do restrict you from doing cross country flights for hire
Click to expand...
Not true. Just restricts XC flights with Pax for hire. You can still ferry aircraft and do part 91 cargo legally.
 
luvflyin said:
IFR is a different ride. Even if you are doing it all pretty much at the same time. Now I could be wrong about this. Maybe there is a DE out there who will do it all at once in the air. There will be two sets of paperwork sent in though. One for Commercial and one for the IR. If your goal is to just be a better pilot by performing up to Commercial standards then why not just do that and skip the checkride? Although after all that work I'd sure throw a couple more hundred at it and get the ticket.
Click to expand...
Couple hundred? Checkrides around Denver are just a little more than that. Add in written and yer talkin $750.
 
luvflyin said:
Yikes. Been awhile since I done one. Hey!! Can I turn my Certificate in for a Rebate? At todays rates of course
Click to expand...
It seems the DPE count hasn’t kept up with the candidate count around here. The backlog is around six weeks. I’ve heard similar stories for Dallas and Houston.
 
IMHO you would be better served by pursuing an IR vs the commercial cert. While there is a valid argument that pursuing a commercial cert will make you a better pilot, you can obtain some training and practice commercial maneuvers on your own. An IR obviously opens IFR ops which you can and probably would use more and it also makes you a better pilot. Unless you're planning on pursuing some kind of career (full time or part time) in aviation the commercial cert really won't do much for you. I don't know if it's true, but I have heard that if you ever found yourself in an enforcement action with the FAA the expectations and penalties increase with a CP vs PP.
 
Unless you're going to make money with it, you're basically just taking a private checkride again with a couple maneuvers added.

Want to be a better pilot, get your IFR, or do a backcountry to aerobatics course.
 
Comm rating is a joke. Yeah you get to do some new manuvers but if being a better pilot is the goal then do acro or ifr. Comm checkride boils down to can you hit your pwr off 180 and does the examiner like your lazy eights.
 
+1 those who say IR before Comm.

If your goal is to be a better pilot, then I think the best way is to explore *variety* in flying. Different planes. Different flying conditions. Different weather. Different places. Different skills.
So that can include simple things ilke... try a low wing instead of a high wing? Taildragger? Rent something in an unfamiliar part of the country? Urban vs. rural? Mountain flying? Aerobatics? Gliders?

...and of course, IFR is definitely "something different requiring different skills". It's the differentest! So go for it!

It's been >13 years since I last was IFR current, but still, no regrets about that training.
 
James331 said:
Want to be a better pilot, get your IFR, or do a backcountry to aerobatics course.
Click to expand...
Or find an instructor who will integrate backcountry and/or aerobatics into the commercial training.

...An instructor who believes the ACS or PTS isn't a syllabus.
 
falconkidding said:
Comm rating is a joke. Yeah you get to do some new manuvers but if being a better pilot is the goal then do acro or ifr. Comm checkride boils down to can you hit your pwr off 180 and does the examiner like your lazy eights.
Click to expand...

It does a few other things, like pound some professionalism back into flight planning for a lot of Private rated folk who’ve gotten a little lazy. Etc.

But yes, it’s an entry level cert. Anyone who thinks they’re done going to class or learning or with checkrides after Commericial or even ATP missed something about this biz somewhere in their head. They’re *minimum* standards. Their employer will want to see a LOT more competency and skill than they’ll have as a freshly minted Commercial holder.
 
Clark1961 said:
It seems the DPE count hasn’t kept up with the candidate count around here. The backlog is around six weeks. I’ve heard similar stories for Dallas and Houston.
Click to expand...
Same thing around here, 3 to 6 weeks depending on what time of year and how lucky you are. Some of the better instructors here will get you scheduled with an examiner early on if they are confident in you. And yes, it is not cheap!

Also, I agree with the others on this thread, if you want to be a better pilot then I would think instrument or some other type of backcountry or avro course would be better than commercial
 
IFR is headwork. Commercial is stick and rudder.
 
SkyDog58 said:
The limitations do restrict you from doing cross country flights for hire but you can do some for hire work, for instance:

Fly skydivers
Tow gliders
Tow banners
Crop dust
Air tour <50 nm

Plus it counts as a flight review and as you noted, builds skills and proficiency. No real reason not to do it.
Click to expand...
You don’t need a commercial relating to tow gliders.
 
flyingron said:
You do for money (or even logging purposes based on a counsel opinion).
Click to expand...

Not Correct. Copy/Paste below from SSA website:

In 2009, then-SSA Chairman Phil Umphres wrote to the FAA Office of Chief Counsel requesting a formal legal interpretation of the rules governing glider towing operations. Specifically, SSA requested that the FAA advise whether Private certificated tow pilots could receive certain specified forms of “compensation” or benefit – such as reimbursement for expenses, meals or lodging – if those pilots towed at a soaring contest.

The FAA elected to answer SSA’s inquiry broadly. In a formal legal opinion dated November 3, 2010, in the clearest of terms, the FAA’s Chief Counsel stated that a Private certificated tow pilot who is otherwise qualified to tow gliders under FAR § 61.69 may tow for compensation or hire, so long as the tow pilot does not carry passengers or other property in the tow plane. The key language from the FAA November 3, 2010 opinion follows:

Although the language of § 61.113(g) merely allows a private pilot to act as PIC when towing, § 61.113 prescribes the limits of acting as PIC for compensation or hire. The exception in § 61.113(g) is an exception to acting as PIC for compensation or hire because acting as PIC without compensation had been allowed previously. See Lincoln Interpretation. The text of § 61.113 does not limit the compensation that a private pilot may receive to only the logging of PIC flight time despite a suggestion to that effect by the Soaring Society of America in a comment to the 1995 NPRM. See 62 Fed. Reg. 16220, 16267. Furthermore, the preamble to the 2004 final rule more clearly states the intent of § 61.113(g). Accordingly, § 61.113(g) permits a private pilot to act as PIC for compensation or hire of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle. Nevertheless, although the glider and unpowered ultralight vehicle being towed and its passengers are not considered passengers or property for purposes of § 61.113(a), § 61.113(a) does not permit a private pilot to carry passengers or property in the tow plane for compensation or hire.

(Emphasis added.) The full FAA legal opinion is available on the FAA website
 
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