Considering PPL

Bman.

Bman.

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Springfield, Missouri
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Bman.
Hey all-

First post here on Pilots of America. I have spent the past couple of hours..the past couple of nights... reading up on some of your journeys and adventures of getting your PPL and/or IFR ticket. Some of your check rides give me sweaty palms by virtue of your stress!

So here I am at 38 and a serious arm chair pilot (simmer) for the past 15 years. I am finally in a position financially to where I feel like if this is a goal I want to accomplish - now is the time. I was ready a few years ago but my father (retired USN pilot) and my wife sort of took the the wind out of my sails. Most folks ask why my dad wouldn't drive me towards getting a PPL. Well, his first response is "fly a bug smasher.... really?!". Easy to say for a fella that has accumulated x,000 hours, going 600 knots on others dime! But his real questions were "Where do you plan on going?", "Do you own a plane" and lastly "I dunno, seems kind of risky for a 'just for fun' kind of thing". All solid points which I easy reconcile easily with 'Because I want to fly and it's a calculated risk I am willing to take'. Fair enough. The wife falls under the category of concerned partner consuming too much media coverage on aircraft accidents. I get that perspective as well - yes, inherently not the safest of things but you have to put it in context with everything else we do. I always come back to the motorcycle comparison.

Any way, back to the original topic. I am now considering diving in or at least checking it out and getting the financials in order. One thing is for sure, I have spent almost enough on my simulator cockpit to darn near cover the expense of a PPL. It has been nice to fly with authentic hardware, have some ATC coverage via Vatsim and practice various approaches under specific Wx conditions. Half of my simming group are pilots with hours ranging from 40 to 800 hours or so - but any way I look at it, I feel like I am missing an opportunity to make this journey happen the more I sit around thinking about it. The group I sim with aren't helping much either as they talk about their real world flight earlier in the day on various parts of the globe.

I have been doing some research on various schools... no wait, school.. in Springfield and what I have found is that there isn't aren't a lot of CFI's around here to choose from. After watching enough MzeroA.com videos (Jason Schappert) I know he stresses over and over to find the right CFI for you. Interview the guys / gals. Figure out what there reasons are being a CFI - collecting hours for x goal, for the fun of it etc.

Question 1 - Does any one know of a goof CFI in / around the Springfield area?

Question 2 - Ground school - am I better off doing this at a local college, my local FBO or an online school like mzeroa.com?

I plan on heading over to Pro-Flight Air and having a chat with them just to get a feel of what they have to offer, training plane options and what is out there to rent.

In the meantime, back to the simulator. I am currently hovering over the yoke.

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Benjamin
 
Bman. said:
Question 1 - Does any one know of a goof CFI in / around the Springfield area?
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Can't help you there, but I would ask which "Springfield"? I know of one each in MA, MO, and IL, and there are probably others.
Question 2 - Ground school - am I better off doing this at a local college, my local FBO or an online school like mzeroa.com?
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That's a matter of your best learning style and what's convenient for you, and I don't know enough about on either point.
 
That's a fine question - Springfield, Missouri. I can't believe your couldn't guess out of the 13 Springfield city areas.

I guess the bigger question on the ground school is what is the correlation to flight training? Is it typical to have them both run parallel or ground school ahead or completed before flight training?

Thanks
Benjamin
 
Welcome to PoA. I'd first suggest that you go to www.FreeFlyBook.com and download the free 70-page ebook. It will answer just about any question you can come up with and also includes introductions to all of the basic aeronautical knowledge areas. No sign up needed, just click and download. You won't be forced into joining someone's mailing list.
 
It is probably optimal to get a little head start on your ground training, then proceed on into your flight training. This lets you apply what you are studying. When you pick an online ground school, make sure to choose one that covers both the written test and the flight portion of your training. Some cover one portion or the other, but not both.
 
As Ron said above, the ground school question is best answered by your learning style. I took my PP ground school at a local community college and did self study with the Gleim test prep book. The course was good for me because it forced me to take time each week and the lecture/q&a style works for me. (Interestingly, to me at least, this is not how I learned best when I was younger. Self study at my own pace worked better then.)

There are a variety of online courses ranging from simple test prep to full up series of lectures and interactive courseware.

As someone who wanted to fly from early elementary school age and waited until mid forties, I say go for it! You'll never do it any younger! I don't own an airplane, but I do some limited travel with it and I've had a blast taking people flying who would not have gotten the chance without it.

John
 
Bman. said:
I guess the bigger question on the ground school is what is the correlation to flight training? Is it typical to have them both run parallel or ground school ahead or completed before flight training?
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Outside of formal in-residence pilot training programs like collegiate/commercial professional pilot programs or the military, there is usually little coordination between ground school and flight training. However, I still recommend doing them together, as there is a lot in the latter portions of ground school which you'll understand a lot more easily if you're already flying. You might find it works best if you start the ground school first, and then start flying after a few ground school sessions.
 
Get Prepware, or one of the equivalent written test drill-you software. It's more than enough. They have 600 questions to answer 60. Then simply read the FAA AIM and Pilot knowledge pdfs you can find online.

My wife got a 95, i got a 90 doing it that way.

Do the written toward the end of your dual and solo time so you don't have to reread all of it for your checkride ground part.
 
Do your ground school home study. If you have questions you don't understand,go to the instructor.
 
Bman. said:
I guess the bigger question on the ground school is what is the correlation to flight training? Is it typical to have them both run parallel or ground school ahead or completed before flight training?
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Many of the responders here are taking the tack that "Ground School" relates to studying for the written exam.

That's a correct interpretation, but I think you might also be thinking of the connection between ground study and learning how maneuvers, take off, and land the aircraft.

If you read through any of the well known ground school texts, there are going to be certain concepts and teachings that don't quite click until you actually site with an instructor to discuss and then go fly.

However, there is great benefit to getting a "we will be doing this on our next lesson" brief and then going home to read up on those items. This helps you know the what, how, and why of what you're about to do. Then when you fly that lesson, you save time (and money) because you are familiar with the larger portion of what is being taught. Your instructor just needs to teach you how to execute it.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Many of the responders here are taking the tack that "Ground School" relates to studying for the written exam.

That's a correct interpretation, but I think you might also be thinking of the connection between ground study and learning how maneuvers, take off, and land the aircraft.

If you read through any of the well known ground school texts, there are going to be certain concepts and teachings that don't quite click until you actually site with an instructor to discuss and then go fly.

However, there is great benefit to getting a "we will be doing this on our next lesson" brief and then going home to read up on those items. This helps you know the what, how, and why of what you're about to do. Then when you fly that lesson, you save time (and money) because you are familiar with the larger portion of what is being taught. Your instructor just needs to teach you how to execute it.
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A preflight briefing is not really ground school. But I think you did say that. Symantics mostly. But most think of ground school as being the material and effort one needs to pass the written and answer the ground portion of the checkride.

In any case. Most see the training in two parts. Getting past the written, and learning to fly in dual and solo and getting the required hours to qualify for the checkride where both are tested all over again.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Many of the responders here are taking the tack that "Ground School" relates to studying for the written exam.
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Yes, there are ground programs that only prep you for the written test. A better option, though, will be a complete ground school that covers the entire training program. There are a lot of pieces to this aeronautical knowledge puzzle that aren't covered on the written test. A pilot still needs to know them.

Some people, more than others, get enthused about studying interesting topics. These people will do much better with a full program. For those who simply want to get past the written test with the least effort, just go with one of the testing books. That isn't "ground school" by any means. But it is a minimalist way to put the knowledge test behind you.
 
OK, others here have addressed the logistics of getting your PPL, so I just want to say one thing with respect to your post. You mentioned that your father and wife weren't too supportive. And here I'll quote a wise man who once posted here often, but was driven away by the nastiness and stupidity that run so rampant on the Internet. I'm talking about Dr. Bruce. He once wrote, "Don't ever let your dream die, because when your dream dies, so do you." Hey, worked for me! I'm now a pilot, despite all the naysayers in my family and elsewhere. And I couldn't be happier. Go for it, and best of luck to you!
 
The other thing to consider as well if the wife isnt as supportive is to think about going sport pilot at first, its a bit lower in time and cost and you'll be able to warm her up to the idea a bit more after you have your ticket and gone on a few trips with her. There are the LSA restrictions and aircraft selection may be a bit limited in your area, but its something to consider.

I am currently going that route, but will likely continue with my PPL over time. My instructor has told me that its a pretty easy transition from sport to PPL if you decide to go that route. As long as your CFI is a full CFI and not just a CFI-S all your training and time transitions directly towards your PPL as well as your hours flown under your sport ticket.
 
I posed a similar question earlier. And as you can see, it is highly individualized in terms of opinions. What I have been doing is have my instructor do my ground school. It cost more, But I am ok with that. Each lesson consists of a ground school lesson that is related to the flight lesson we are going to fly that day. This is usually about 45 minutes to an hour. Then we go fly. After we fly, we debrief the flight lesson and he will assign homework for the next lesson. I have decided that this is best for me and my style of learning.


ETA, pick what fits your style of learning and your wallet, then go for it!
 
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Eagle I said:
OK, others here have addressed the logistics of getting your PPL, so I just want to say one thing with respect to your post. You mentioned that your father and wife weren't too supportive. And here I'll quote a wise man who once posted here often, but was driven away by the nastiness and stupidity that run so rampant on the Internet. I'm talking about Dr. Bruce. He once wrote, "Don't ever let your dream die, because when your dream dies, so do you." Hey, worked for me! I'm now a pilot, despite all the naysayers in my family and elsewhere. And I couldn't be happier. Go for it, and best of luck to you!
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+ 1,0000000
 
Becoming a pilot is hard work and costly. If you don't have the support of your family, it may be nearly impossible to get it done.

Compromise with them, let each member choose something they dream about that may cost money and effort. Nothing like a giant group hug when it comes to accomplishment.
 
Thanks for the information guys.

I like the general idea of ground school at my own pace but with some correlation to my flight training. No reason to put it off and no particular reason to knock it out completely prior to flight training. On the plus side, I have already read and sitting in my library: Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, Airplane Flying Handbook, Instrument Flying Handbook and flip through.. spot read... the FAR AIM (2013) and Bob Gardner's "Say Again Please". What can I say, I took the sim certifications seriously..

I wouldn't go so far to say that I family is against the idea, just no solid support to push me along. I suspect once I get rolling the wife will think differently. I don't think I will even tell my dad until I pass - he doesn't care either way really but it would be a cool surprise. He is supportive in anything I do. Just do it well, do it thoughtfully and carefully. So if I show up at the house a year from now (+/-) with my license I can guarantee he would be excited.

Thanks again for the welcome - I need to see what my CFI options are. It's a lot of speculation until I have options in front of me.

Benjamin
 
CFI recommendations.... Tell us where you are based and we might have a few names for you...
 
First off welcome and awesome simulator! I recommend finding a local flying club and chatting up some instructors and question students and folks for local CFI recommendations. Then go on a discovery flight before investing in training. Flying sims is one thing but the real deal quite another thing. It's wicked fun so you will get hooked quick! I also recommend getting the medical out of the way in case some health concern comes up prior to spending $$$ on training.
 
Nice sim setup.

Discovery flight is a good thing to go do. Maybe more than one at different airports in the area. Get a feel for the FBO/school vibe.

Your wife's concerns are somewhat valid, but not to the extent she thinks. Get a good life insurance policy that doesn't exclude aviation and tell her you're worth more dead than alive. Haha. Okay that's a bit much, but do cover your assets. You dad flew for living and on top of that, military, which is significantly different than recreational. He probably has seen some nasty weather and still had to go... But... He also learned techniques to handle it safely. So his experience can both be useful and useless, depending on the topic within aviation for your particular goals and flying.

Don't overthink it. I always do. It's always a mistake. Just go fly. If someone decides to start racing cars on weekends, the head to the track, learn what they need to do, sign the papers and go for a lap as soon as they have their helmet and requirements lined up. Don't fiddle around for months. Just go.

Some of the public MZeroA videos have serious errors in them. I think he has gotten better about it, but some of the early ones when he started out were doozies. Haha. I'm not throwing stones. I wouldn't put videos out on the Net for the world to pick on.

I would however recommend listening to Jason Miller's stuff. Jason is extremely careful in his wording and presentation. Podcast is called The Finer Points.

Lots of sim time will have built a tendency to look inside and try to fly instruments in primary non-Instrument training. Not an awful thing, but be acutely aware of where your eyeballs are. Look outside. Heh.

No help at all on Springfield, MO. Sorry.
 
P.S. If there's an active glider operation somewhere nearby and you're looking to fly more than you're looking to travel by airplane, don't rule out sailplanes. They're a hoot. Tony will be along shortly to agree. Heh.
 
Good idea on the medical - get that kicked out early enough. Yeah, the simulator is a lot of fun a good practice on procedures from simple to complex. Fortunately the guys I fly with keep it legit since they have a stack of IFR hours so they pack in a lot of what to do / not do. One of my buds eventually got tired of flying the sim with no real feed back on how we truly performed so we developed (...well, he developed the code, we worked the ideas and I wrote the manual) http://www.rexlatitude.com/Home/gallery.html
It's been fun getting a solid analytical view of how one actually performed.

But still, we constantly discuss the short comings of our simulators relative to the RW flying. I do get a fair amount of right seat time while traveling for work so it just seems like a good fit and it gives me the serious itch. I do a lot of chatting with the PIC (driving them crazy likely) and they are confused why I know what I know but have 0 hours. In the end, the PIC usually throws a lob my way, I swing and miss horribly.. and it just goes to prove, not only do I not know what I think I know but doing it while flying - completely different.

I will make it out to the FBO's this weekend hopefully to chat it up. It's the only way to do it.
 
PS - Nate, thanks for the input. Noted.

You are spot on with exactly what I have heard about simmers jumping in - staring at the instruments and missing the building block fundamentals. Sure it might help at some level but I hear outside of general procedure awareness, simming a bunch before flying lessons actually forms some habits (bad ones) that are tough for some to eliminate.

Good point on the life insurance. I remember the question. It came right after "do you smoke?" but before "Do you scuba dive?". I answered no, no and yes to diving. I am sure my quote was based on non-pilot.
 
On the medical, if you do some research and even think you have something disqualifying, find a Doc who will discuss, who's an AME, long before ever applying for the medical itself.

Most of us here would highly recommend Dr, Bruce Chien in Peoria, IL. www.aeromedicaldoc.com I believe. Or Google him.

There are plenty of good AMEs but few better for difficult cases. It takes more fingers than I have to count the number of pilots I know from here and elsewhere who credit Bruce with their success in both being healthy enough to fly and also to work through FAA bureaucracy. He's worth his fees and then some.

I like my local AME but I'd be calling Bruce if I had questions. No doubt about it.
 
Bman. said:
Springfield, Missouri (KSGF) or Downtown (3DW)
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Enforce we forget, go to the Gaston's thread and make plans to attend. Great way to meet many of the personalities here.
 
If any doctor can find something wrong with me - I want to know! There shouldn't be any hangups that I am aware of, so if you find something doc, tell me stat.
 
Gaston's is a great place to watch, fish and eat fish. My folks live a stones throw to the east on Lake Norfork. I make it to Gastons every year or so. Heading over to that thread.

Edit - Great weekend for Gastons. It's on the calendar.
 
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For the medical as long as you are not color blind, diabetic or heart issues then you probably will be ok but it's good to be sure. Gliders look fun that's what I'm looking at as well.
 
I was a simmer that also recently transitioned to RW flying and I frankly barely touch the sim now. I just passed the 40 hour mark and should be ready in the next 10 or so for the PPL check ride.

I think quite a lot of good learning can be done on your own if you know how to apply yourself. The Jeppesen PPL Manual and the FAA Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge are great resources for learning what you need to know. Also, if you pair that with the King Ground School videos and a Gleim PPL test prep, you should be golden. Of course, you need to go over everything with your CFI as well to get the endorsement for the exam.

Flying is definitely expensive. While we spend time looking at airplane/CFI costs, we forget about flight bags, charts, iPad, logbooks, E6B's and the such. This stuff costs money; not to mention the medical, the checkride, etc. I think it's critical to train regularly if you want to absorb knowledge well and not waste money. Every time you take a break, you'll have to pay back next time you start up with refreshing. Also, you really should find a CFI you like. While I don't think "interviewing" CFI's is productive, I do think you can just start lessons and if you feel uncomfortable, try someone else. Make sure it is a person you respect and feel safe with.

While simulator time is great to get your feet wet, it will never make you completely appreciate how complex flying is, or how truly dangerous it can be. On a simulator, a simple cessna or piper trainer is so easy to fly compared to the more complex PMDG aircraft. In the real world, the Cessna or Piper are very complex machines which you need to understand entirely. It takes time and lots of studying to master one aircraft. Then you have to learn to shift from one C172 to another, and figure out what makes each one unique and how to tame the challenges.

It's great that you're seriously considering getting started. I'll say it's one of the hardest things to do, but well worth the time and money spent if you love aviation.
 
Do it!

My instructor (CFI) had me read these two FAA published books to start, and it's free:
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol...aft/airplane_handbook/media/FAA-H-8083-3B.pdf

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol...ation/pilot_handbook/media/FAA-H-8083-25A.pdf

I had a friend that had kings videos and Sporty's. I borrowed both. King teaches the test, Sporty's more for flying and teaches concepts better for me.

Just took my PPL check ride yesterday. Much of the concepts come from these two boring, dry, old books. What are the primary control surfaces and what axis do they work on? What's PAVE model? 3P/DECIDE models? How many hours is a sigmet valid for?

I was told not to hit the FAR/AIM until you start flight school, it'll bore you to death...unless you like reading law books.
 
I already own the hard copies of all of the typical FAA books. :) I do a lot of work on screen but you just can't beat hard copy text books.

Mitch - How was your check ride?
 
skynewbie said:
For the medical as long as you are not color blind, diabetic or heart issues then you probably will be ok but it's good to be sure. Gliders look fun that's what I'm looking at as well.
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Don't forget to add the mental disorders, including the possibility of being wrongly labeled ADHD as a kid and fed Ritalin.
 
Bman. said:
I have been told I am mental by some. Hope they don't hold that against me.
Benjamin
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Official diagnoses on your medical record.... reportable

Funny looks by friends, associates, and others around you :loco:..... no reportable.
 
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