Gary F
Final Approach
If it doesn't get lost, stolen or dropped.
Computer Suggestions Needed
- Thread starter Captain
- Start date
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
There is a lot of truth to the above. There is no way I would do development on a PC. Most of the cool developer tools that come out these days are for Mac OS anyways.
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
I'm typing this on a hand-me-down laptop that I inherited from my daughter. It is my main work laptop now because I HATE Stinkpads that are now our company standard. The worst part is, they are a freaking cult: once you're full in you cannot ever go back to the open world. The left Ctlr, nipple, and to the lesser degree Esc make sure of it. Whatever you do, don't let your 12 year old to buy a Lenovo. He can navigate those dangerous waters of addition when he's older.
RevDMV
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RevDMV
I use a MacBook Air with VMware. I do SQL Server and Visual Studio, heck have an old Delphi VM for some clients that have an older app I wrote.
Picked the MacBook up after the last laptop died, good build quality, no issues at all now two years in.
Captain
Final Approach
Okay, I have a question.
We're putting the parts list together and I'm wondering about an optical drive. We've sortta hit our budget and I was thinking we could do without an optical drive. But, if I do that how am I going to install the OS? I'm getting Windows 8.1 and figure it'll show up on a CD?
BTW, I've never installed an OS on a new machine before so any advice welcome...
We're putting the parts list together and I'm wondering about an optical drive. We've sortta hit our budget and I was thinking we could do without an optical drive. But, if I do that how am I going to install the OS? I'm getting Windows 8.1 and figure it'll show up on a CD?
BTW, I've never installed an OS on a new machine before so any advice welcome...
sferguson524
Pattern Altitude
it'll show up on a DVD. You might be able to rip an ISO of it and put it on a thumb drive and install from there, but it's a PIA. DVD drives are dirt cheap.. such as this 18 dollar burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...6&cm_re=sata_dvd_drive-_-27-136-276-_-Product
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
A DVD drive is cheap nowadays. I don't use them (all of my computers run Linux, so I boot them with PXE), but it should not be a big deal, and yes, you need one for Windows.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151266
sferguson524
Pattern Altitude
Touche' Pete, you beat me by 4 bucks 
Captain
Final Approach
Right...I added a optical drive. Didn't go cheap on it either...it's like buying a plane. You start telling yourself, "well, if I'm going to spend X, I might as well spend just a little bit more and get...". Rinse and repeat and my $600 build is now just under $1000 and that's with me and my motto of "Flinty Parsimony".
Well, here's the build if anyone is interested:
Parts List
Everything is either on order or already received. We should have it all within a week. Then I gotta figure out how to put it all together. My biggest question in my mind right now is how to do the initial instal of windows. Any advice on that or other gotchas would be welcome!
Thanks
Well, here's the build if anyone is interested:
Parts List
Everything is either on order or already received. We should have it all within a week. Then I gotta figure out how to put it all together. My biggest question in my mind right now is how to do the initial instal of windows. Any advice on that or other gotchas would be welcome!
Thanks
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
Put the disk in. Start the computer.
"push any key to boot from disk" Windows loads.
You can figure out the rest.
You shouldn't have to adjust the boot order in the BIOS if nothing exists on the SSD/HDD. A 600W PSU seems pretty low for those specs but, if it works at full load, let it be.
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jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
You really should have two memory modules if you want it to perform properly. It needs two to do dual channel.
See page 15 of the motherboard manual:
ftp://66.226.78.21/manual/H97 Pro4.pdf
Captain
Final Approach
Not sure I follow. The MB has four slots and I have two DIMMs at 4G each. Are you thinking I only have one DIMM or are you saying I should get another pair brining the system up to 16G?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Your filter suggests two DIMMs but the actual part number that you're ordering is 1 x 8GB module
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
I caught that in a quick 10 second glass at the parts...I can look a little closer tomorrow to see if I spot other issues. Years ago, I used to spec out custom computers all day long. Except we were always building in quantities of at least 100 so a minor mistake in parts really ****ed the boss man off.
I would take it to 16 gig for the extra $54 instead of doing 2x4. That really limits your future expansion as you'd have to basically throw those in the trash since you only have 4 slots to work with.
I would also personally be pretty hesitant to by a no name SSD. SSD's make great hard drives and are amazing technology but their long term reliability and performance is heavily dependent on how well it was engineered and how well the firmware was written.
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Captain
Final Approach
No, I have received the DIMM and its two physical objects at 4G each.
My plan for the SSID is to basically just load windows from it. With my limited knowledge they are ALL no name brands to me
It's in the mail as we speak, would you recommend I send it back and buy another?
My plan for the SSID is to basically just load windows from it. With my limited knowledge they are ALL no name brands to me
It's in the mail as we speak, would you recommend I send it back and buy another?
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, I have received the DIMM and its two physical objects at 4G each.
My plan for the SSID is to basically just load windows from it. With my limited knowledge they are ALL no name brands to me
It's in the mail as we speak, would you recommend I send it back and buy another?
They're definitely not all the same. Look at the reviews on Newegg for Adata..There aren't many but those that are there aren't good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...sp=&AID=10446076&PID=6146836&SID=n2lvvo4gktcw
Personally there is no way I would bother with it because it ****ting out later would be annoying. Long term, poorly built SSDs get incredibly slow.
I'd be sticking with well reviewed SSDs made by manufacturers that have been doing it for awhile now. Samsung, OCZ, Crucial, are the only ones I would personally bother with.
zaitcev
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Pete Zaitcev
If you want to get that serious, Intel is the best, second is Sandisk. They will retain performance as the flash ages and the physical layout gets fragmented. Samsung is a maybe, depending on the family and model.
TazzyTazzy
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Mitch
Rule #1: NEVER EVER defrag an SSD. This kills SSDs. They fragment everything everywhere, and it's not the same fragmentation that the OS thinks is fragmented. SSDs treat fragmentation the same as they do for un-fragmented. It doesn't matter as SSDs can read sequential or non-sequential at the same rate. This fragmentation is also known as "wear-leveling". In short, it distributes the writes to evenly wear out the drive to prevent hot spots and failures. I'll typically not format 2-4% of the drive so the drive has extra space for this. Although, SSDs actually ship with extra memory for this specific purpose and is not user accessible.
Rules #2 - 10: Follow rule #1.
Besure to enable TRIM or DISCARD support within the OS to keep the SSD drive running optimally. I don't use Windows, so I can't tell you how to do that on Windoze.
I agree - Intel has the best SSD's. I use Intel SSDs for my OS, and an OCZ as my hard drive cache as I don't care much about the reliability of the cache drive. I use spinning media in mirror configuration for redundancy and speed.
Disclaimer: I work for Intel.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
denverpilot
Tied Down
We all like that about Jesse.
Was poking thru the web the other night and found the "kid" I mentored almost twenty years ago is now the IT manager for a reasonable sized petroleum services company. Cool seeing that.
There's still knowledge holes. Our PFY at the office slammed some random RAM in a Dell the other day and couldn't figure out why it was beeping and wouldn't turn on the video output. I had to show him about BIOS beeps.
Tell me about it. I'll have about two hours at mom's on Christmas because ... we'll never mind on that... And half or more of it will be installing husband #3's stupid wifi router he bought because he thinks the old one is "bad" because of random disconnects and the need to reboot the crappy cable modem weekly.
Of course none of the Apple devices ever disconnect, just the junk laptops, and the wifi has nothing to do with the stupid cable modem.
As the IT manager I use the crappy company laptop and order the higher power toys for the workers. Especially developers. Keeps them happier, they get more work done, and I don't need the horsepower for spreadsheets and email.
Well then I buy a non company owned Mac to use at work, too. But it's not staying if I leave.
RF noise makers. Why bother?
True.
Cap, you can install Win from a USB if you don't want the optical. You need access to a machine that does have optical to make the USB stick though.
Example: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/install-windows-8-usb.htm
This is truth. Set a budget and let him pick....
Captain
Final Approach
Say, on my motherboard there are 6 SATA3 data ports. Does it make any difference which ones I use for my SSID and Optical drive? I've looked at the documentation and can't seem to see where it makes a difference. One of my connectors is a 90 degree elbow so it's gonna cover two making the use of #1 and #2 not possible.
I sorta figure it won't make any difference, but thought I'd check here...
I sorta figure it won't make any difference, but thought I'd check here...
denverpilot
Tied Down
Windows will sometimes whine if the boot drive isn't the first. Other than that, or using a real operating system that doesn't care, no. Plug em in wherever. Set boot device in BIOS. Done.
Captain
Final Approach
Okay, you people obviously didn't realize the scope of retarded you're working with. I got all the parts, got the kid, and started assembly. Got a little lost on the PSU, case wiring, MB connection interface so looked up manuals, YT videos and web sites to sort it out.
In the end I wired it up and thought it looked okay. There were a few connections I was skeptical about but they seemed logical so I powered it up. I turned it on with a monitor connected and at first it looked okay. I was watching the monitor and MB when about 3 seconds in I heard three beeps from the MB followed immediately by a loud 'POP' and my son reported seeing smoke. That was confirmed by my smelling smoke.
Soooooo, I'm out. Gonna pay someone to figure out what I smoked and finish assembly. Ego here has taken a pretty big hit so please be kind in replies...
In the end I wired it up and thought it looked okay. There were a few connections I was skeptical about but they seemed logical so I powered it up. I turned it on with a monitor connected and at first it looked okay. I was watching the monitor and MB when about 3 seconds in I heard three beeps from the MB followed immediately by a loud 'POP' and my son reported seeing smoke. That was confirmed by my smelling smoke.
Soooooo, I'm out. Gonna pay someone to figure out what I smoked and finish assembly. Ego here has taken a pretty big hit so please be kind in replies...
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Inspect everything very closely and you'll probably find what went POP. If you can't find it, possible it's the power supply, you can disconnect the power supply from everything and turn it on with a paper clip if you ground the right pin to see if it still works.
Can you take good pictures of how you have everything hooked up? It's pretty hard to hook it up in a way that'll blow something generally unless you forced a connector somewhere it shouldn't have been.
If I had to guess what went wrong, and I used to guess how someone misassembled a PC for a living, I would guess that you gave power to something on the motherboard that wasn't supposed to be receiving that power.
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Gary F
Final Approach
It's happened to the best of us. When I was a EE grad student the first time we powered up a board was officially known as the blue smoke test. Sorry about your trouble. Next time you are confused post questions along with a photo or two before powering it up.
write-stuff
En-Route
One good thing about desktops/towers is the ability to have better, faster, and hotter processors. But like has been said, unless he's into top notch gaming or video editing, all that extra processor power will likely be wasted.
You did not have to do something wrong to pop a component on a board though. Infant mortality of a crap component is far from unheard of.
Gary F
Final Approach
I agree. I'd try to get the board replaced by the vendor. It's pretty hard to hook up the power supply connections improperly and even harder to melt something.
ChrisK
En-Route
I fried a cable once and had it smoke when the board survived. I agree that having the board replaced isn't a bad plan.
Building computers is a lost art.
Building computers is a lost art.
Been rolling my own since the first one I bought ... 1990, maybe.
Built my current system after going maybe 6 years with its predecessor. First time I'd run into infant mortality issues (and there were several) - took me a year to get it up and running (as it became so frustrating, it was more pleasant to keep limping along with the old system).
Can't say that I'll bother to build my next. Things ain't what they used to be...
Built my current system after going maybe 6 years with its predecessor. First time I'd run into infant mortality issues (and there were several) - took me a year to get it up and running (as it became so frustrating, it was more pleasant to keep limping along with the old system).
Can't say that I'll bother to build my next. Things ain't what they used to be...
denverpilot
Tied Down
Unless something on the board was physically shorted to the case, blowing up a motherboard on a PC is relatively difficult. I'm leaning toward the infant mortality thing too, until you know what popped. Your nose can find it.
Gary F
Final Approach
Consensus is bad board. Good luck with customer service. Better luck next time.
My kid and a few of his friends recently cannabalized an older crashed home made desktop. They pooled resources to buy new components to make a new desktop for a friend who had no computer. I was impressed by both their altruism and technical skill.
Yep, we are born knowing to do the right thing for the most part. Most people don't fail until they have children. The fear of failing them is what makes people make their deal with the devil. You can learn a lot from your kid.
You, who are on the road must have a code that you can live by.
And so become yourself because the past is just a good bye.
Teach your children well, their father's hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams, the one they fix, the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
And you, of the tender years can't know the fears that your elders grew by,
And so please help them with your youth, they seek the truth before they can die.
Teach your parents well, their children's hell will slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams, the one they fix,the one you'll know by.
Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.
ChrisK
En-Route
You just quoted CSNY to demonstrate moral relativism on a thread about a busted computer. I am suddenly thinking of Walter Mondale.
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PW_Plack
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Paul Plack
This has been a fun and educational thread. I was talking to my stepson, Nick, recently about his urge to learn some basic (with a small "b") coding. I reminisced about the fun I had with the early Commodore VIC-20s and the 64. Learning to write code which would run within the machine's limitations was challenging, and taught one to avoid bloat.
He bought me a Raspberry Pi for Christmas!
This thing is WAY more capable than the stuff I started out playing with, but looks like a fun platform with which to start learning the Linux environment. It also has some great available daughter board accessories for A/D and interfacing to external projects and experiments.
Now, if I can just find some spare time!
He bought me a Raspberry Pi for Christmas!
This thing is WAY more capable than the stuff I started out playing with, but looks like a fun platform with which to start learning the Linux environment. It also has some great available daughter board accessories for A/D and interfacing to external projects and experiments.
Now, if I can just find some spare time!
denverpilot
Tied Down
woodchucker
Pattern Altitude
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woodchucker
I didn't read this entire thread, but why not go ahead and get him the laptop, as well as a Raspberry Pi? Especially the starter kit with included breadboard and interface? I just got my 17-year-old daughter that for xmas. He can code python, java, make push-buttons interact with code or make LEDs light up and blink, plug it into the tv via hdmi, etc. And it's less than $70 for the entire starter kit.
woodchucker
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woodchucker
Oops, it's been covered I see...