Commuter/Family Plane options

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compute42

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compute42
350hr IFR pilot, no retract time, lots of HP time (saratoga, 182)

Looking for airplane to commute one round trip weekly between greater Phoenix area to greater Los Angeles area. (SDL->BUR or VNY) aprox 340mi

Family moving to AZ, but I need to be in Los Angeles 1-3 days a week for work.
I dont' really enjoy HARD IFR, and out here in Socal/AZ when its HARD IFR in the SW it's usually quite nasty anyhow, so I'll be going Boeing those days.

Initial purchase budget of 250k (less is always better)

I have a family of 4 (small kids for now but they grow fast) with the occasional 5th or 6th pax (grandma etc) that would also use the plane for family trips usually of the 500mi variety.
so 500mi and 700-900 lbs of people and stuff.

Need something in the 160kt or faster range.
I'm thinking A36 210 or even a Saratoga. Or even a Malibu or P210? (250k and 350hrs is gonna be tough for the Bu)

AZ based so AC is prob gonna be a must.
Need at least a WAAS IFR unit decent auto pilot and engine management monitor.

The quandary I'm running into is the Turbo? (TN-A36 or 210T)
I'm reading the stock T210's have heat issues, and get topped every 700-800hrs or so (with a low TBO)
Banning pass sucks (near palm springs). Its a wind tunnel with two 11k mountains on either side. Usually smooth, but can be bumpy. I usually fly thru at 10 or 11k and seem to be fine most of the time. Never done it IFR but I believe the min alt in there is 13k to get through.
OX with kiddos is gonna be a bummer for family trips and AZ is surrounded by mountains. My daughter is 3, not sure if she'd even tolerate a ox mask.
or do I just go for a P210 or Malibu? I'd rather not feed the $300+ hourly costs of those airplane either. (not even sure if I could get insurance either)
I'd love a twin, but would want something with somewhat economical hourly costs since i'll probably be doing around 200+ hrs a year.

A turbo normalized 210 conversion (hard to find, or do it myself?) or TN A36 are what I'm leaning towards right now, but would love to hear any other options I may be missing?
 
If I lived and flew in that part of the country, I'd probably want a turbo.
 
A36-TN with FTA air-conditioning. 4 seats + luggage.
 
maybe buy a cheaper T210 and when the engine goes Tango Uniform, get the TN done on it? 210's seem to beat the A36 on useful. I've yet to fly in a 210, I do like A36's, but not married to high/low wing etc
 
$250k should get you into an '05 +/- vintage SR-22. A turbo 22T is likely going to set you back more than your budget.
However, if you're flying to the coast solo for work you'll be light and shouldn't have any trouble getting the altitude you need without a turbo in the Cirrus.

For your criteria that would be my first suggestion.
But note that I am not a fan of IMC in a single piston, parachute or not. YMMV
 
I really really love the SR22, useful load seems lacking and not a 5th seat for grandma (unless I buy one of the new ones) yeah the commuting aspect I'll be very light.


GRG55 said:
$250k should get you into an '05 +/- vintage SR-22. A turbo 22T is likely going to set you back more than your budget.
However, if you're flying to the coast solo for work you'll be light and shouldn't have any trouble getting the altitude you need without a turbo in the Cirrus.

For your criteria that would be my first suggestion.
But note that I am not a fan of IMC in a single piston, parachute or not. YMMV
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I do like the FG saratoga's I've flown, but found them slow for the fuel burn. compared to the A36 and 210. Can the togas be run LOP? The one i flew didn't have an analyzer so was always ROP.
 
compute42 said:
I really really love the SR22, useful load seems lacking and not a 5th seat for grandma (unless I buy one of the new ones) yeah the commuting aspect I'll be very light.
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How often do you really think grandma is going to come along with the whole circus ? If she flies with you, it's going to be an out and back trip to pick up grandma.
 
Turbo is great in hot country. I just flew Cali to Az and back. It as 95º on the ground and 34º at 13,500 according to the OAT sensor. My fixed gear 182 turbo did nearly 160 TAS up there.
 
compute42 said:
I really really love the SR22, useful load seems lacking and not a 5th seat for grandma (unless I buy one of the new ones) yeah the commuting aspect I'll be very light.
...
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Understood that when I made the suggestion. But note you want a 5 or 6 place airplane, that goes fast, is economical to operate...and you're going to fly it alone most of the time.
 
GRG55 said:
Understood that when I made the suggestion. But note you want a 5 or 6 place airplane, that goes fast, is economical to operate...and you're going to fly it alone most of the time.
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point taken. yeah I am contemplating the fact that grandma may just have to go commercial. HAHAHA

Briefly looking a G2 Turbo is in my price range, looking at the listings with mid time engines and recent chute repack.
 
Hmm I didn't think of this one... what speeds does it cruise at say 65-75% at 10-12k fuel flow? what does economy cruise look like? 10gph per side?
looking most Seneca III's lots have boots/and AC as well
SE ceiling?
I'd love twin time ;-)

PlasticCigar said:
Seneca III
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Phoenix to LA is a super easy flight. While there are a couple mountains on the way, nothing here screams to me turbo as you’re taking off and landing at more or less sea-level, and unless you decide to fly into San Gorgonio, most of the terrain is less than 3,500’ or so. There are tons of planes that will do this reliably and unless you’re just dying to spend extra money, I don’t see why you would need something like a Malibu or P210. My vote for this mission is a NA mid-70s 210.

Banning pass is a nothing burger unless there are Santa Ana winds or a big low. But those are going too be your Boeing days, so I don’t think I’d make that a deciding factor.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I've never understood the high hull value budgets, but somehow price sensitivity to operating and mx costs. Reminds me of....
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I don't think 250k is a particularly high hull value in the GA world. Financed its about 1100/mo with 30% down thats not crazy high budget for GA. Yeah I could take that 250k and buy a dilapidated C414 if i'm not sensitive to operating or mx costs, but I approach it from a complete picture lol Debt service, direct, and fixed costs.
I think 250k is a "sweet spot" in the used GA market, where you get something 10-25 years old in decent shape with something more than 80's avionics, and interior to match. Maybe a few nice bells and whistles.
 
This is PoA, so the best advice is to buy your last airplane first, and if you have to finance it then you can’t afford it. Oh, welcome, and happy flying.
 
compute42 said:
I don't think 250k is a particularly high hull value in the GA world. Financed its about 1100/mo with 30% down thats not crazy high budget for GA. Yeah I could take that 250k and buy a dilapidated C414 if i'm not sensitive to operating or mx costs, but I approach it from a complete picture lol Debt service, direct, and fixed costs.
I think 250k is a "sweet spot" in the used GA market, where you get something 10-25 years old in decent shape with something more than 80's avionics, and interior to match. Maybe a few nice bells and whistles.
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Lol, sweet spot for something 2 decades old that flies the same as the same model built 4 decades ago. Real "value" proposition there.
 
Lachlan said:
This is PoA, so the best advice is to buy your last airplane first, and if you have to finance it then you can’t afford it. Oh, welcome, and happy flying.
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You're just bitter because you know you should have bought a Stinson 108 :p.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Lol, sweet spot for something 2 decades old that flies the same as the same model built 4 decades ago. Real "value" proposition there.
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Just depends on what you're looking for. If you're okay with an older plane, but don't want to be updating it year after year to bring it into this century, then yeah it is a sweet spot. There are plenty of "sweet spots" depending on what you're in the market for and what your mission is.
 
Lachlan said:
This is PoA, so the best advice is to buy your last airplane first, and if you have to finance it then you can’t afford it. Oh, welcome, and happy flying.
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HAHAHA well its also used as a business tool, so yeah paying for it outright would not be the smart thing to do $$$ wise. If you know you know.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
You're just bitter because you know you should have bought a Stinson 108 :p.
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Well, the last airplane I bought was my first, and we paid cash for it, so, uhh... and I can always convert it to a taildragger. I mean *will* convert it to a taildragger some day.
 
Turbo lance or non turbo 310?

AC is going to massively limit your options. Do those swamp cooler things work? Either plane should have room for one
 
compute42 said:
I don't think 250k is a particularly high hull value in the GA world. Financed its about 1100/mo with 30% down thats not crazy high budget for GA. Yeah I could take that 250k and buy a dilapidated C414 if i'm not sensitive to operating or mx costs, but I approach it from a complete picture lol Debt service, direct, and fixed costs.
I think 250k is a "sweet spot" in the used GA market, where you get something 10-25 years old in decent shape with something more than 80's avionics, and interior to match. Maybe a few nice bells and whistles.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be in GA if that's what's consider "not high". That's more than twice what I paid for my house. Even the measly 30% down is way more than I paid for my plane. Maybe I'm just the poorest person on PoA and don't realize it.
 
EdFred said:
I wouldn't be in GA if that's what's consider "not high". That's more than twice what I paid for my house. Even the measly 30% down is way more than I paid for my plane. Maybe I'm just the poorest person on PoA and don't realize it.
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Nah, you're not. To the OP, the term GA goes from 20-30K for a simple plane to millions for a private jet.

I think 250k doesn't put you out there too far. if you want to spend closer to 250k (and not way less), many would prescribe a nice 36 series Bonanza for your mission and you could probably find one with AC/good panel/nice P&I for that amount or less.

If I had 250K to spend, i'd still most likely end up around 100k (give or take 30) and get something else and just bank the rest, but if everyone acted like me, there'd be no sales in the 150K+ range, so it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Just depends on what you're looking for. If you're okay with an older plane, but don't want to be updating it year after year to bring it into this century, then yeah it is a sweet spot. There are plenty of "sweet spots" depending on what you're in the market for and what your mission is.
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I get that, but if $250K is the "sweet spot" for GA, I guess I'm out. Most of the SE piston birds flying around every day aren't $250K birds, and if that's where the best value sets, the majority of those flying SE-piston GA today would hang it up. Being able to drop $250K on a mode of transportation isn't something many outside of the 1%ers are capable of. There's always some vagueness when we say "GA" since it encompasses the powered parachute to the jetsetting millionaire.
 
Get a multi-rating and an Aerostar 601P. Sick bang for buck and will cruise at 200kts all day burning 25gal/hr.
 
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