Commercial Written - Which Ground School ?

bill98

bill98

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bill98
I stopped flying in 2011 back in College. I had passed my commercial written back then but never did my commercial check ride (don't ask k thankz)

Anyways

I started flying again back in March 2018, have since bought a plane and logged 50-60 hours.

I want to get finally get my commercial rating and then probably CFI so I always have 1 hour more than my friend who finally got his PPL + Instrument this year (he also bought a plane) and he is encroaching on my total time of 280.

Which commercial ground should I take to retake the exam... also do I have to get another endorsement/sign off from a different instructor to take the written again? I live no where near where I went to college.

Also- anyone ever do their commercial in a Mooney?
 
An expired passing test report may be used as authorization to retake the test (instead of getting another instructor's endorsement).
 
dmspilot said:
An expired passing test report may be used as authorization to retake the test (instead of getting another instructor's endorsement).
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By no way am I questioning you as it is the answer I want to hear! Buttt can you provide the source that states that?
 
I'll make a small distinction to the original question....

Test preparation so you do well on the written: Sheppard Air. Hands down one of the best and least expensive solutions on the current market to prepare for the FAA Written exams. Only downside is that it is rote memorization. Not something that feeds into the long term understanding and memory of the what/how/why of the details, rules, and regulations.

Ground School to feed the long term understanding and memory.... for me what works is a live classroom and lecture style. But there are also many video classroom products that can fill this bill. ASA's Virtual Prepware and King Schools (this time it's mostly John and is ever changing bald spot) are two examples.
 
Where Sheppard Air is unabashedly a quiz generator for rote memorization, there are better options. GoldMethod is a much newer product and uses newer techniques, costing a very similar price. And unlike Sheppard, GoldMethod uses a proprietary 3-dimensional randomization procedure to combat any tendency toward memorizing questions and answers. Sheppard Air is a "dumb bomb" compared to GoldMethod's "smart bomb" approach.
 
write-stuff said:
Where Sheppard Air is unabashedly a quiz generator for rote memorization, there are better options. GoldMethod is a much newer product and uses newer techniques, costing a very similar price. And unlike Sheppard, GoldMethod uses a proprietary 3-dimensional randomization procedure to combat any tendency toward memorizing questions and answers. Sheppard Air is a "dumb bomb" compared to GoldMethod's "smart bomb" approach.
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The key to Sheppard is learning what is the FAA's answer, not necessarily the correct answer. All the studying and knowledge in the world doesn't make up for how poorly the FAA writes questions. Unfortunately it works best to learn the question and answer.
 
write-stuff said:
Where Sheppard Air is unabashedly a quiz generator for rote memorization, there are better options. GoldMethod is a much newer product and uses newer techniques, costing a very similar price. And unlike Sheppard, GoldMethod uses a proprietary 3-dimensional randomization procedure to combat any tendency toward memorizing questions and answers. Sheppard Air is a "dumb bomb" compared to GoldMethod's "smart bomb" approach.
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I only see private, instrument and remote option on the GoldMethod web site. Is there a commercial ground course available since that is what the OP is asking about?
 
thanks...I must have gotten hit with dumb bomb
(I had clicked on the link in that person's signature. opps)
 
If it’s been a long time and you need a refresh get King school

If you’re good to go and just need to pass the written get a dauntless practice test subscription and keep going at it till average over 80%
 
King worked well for me. I cramed for a week and passed with an 89.

How long do I have to take the checkride before I have to retake the written?
 
I have just started my research. Seeing as I own a plane, would make sense to add my CSEL ..... because I can. Not looking to fly at the airlines, but might consider CFI. At 58 years of age, I'm not getting any younger. The KIng School looks look like a good way to go. How times have changed, when I obtained my Instrument rating my friend loaned me the King Prep on VHS tape
 
Mooney Fan said:
I have just started my research. Seeing as I own a plane, would make sense to add my CSEL ..... because I can. Not looking to fly at the airlines, but might consider CFI. At 58 years of age, I'm not getting any younger. The KIng School looks look like a good way to go. How times have changed, when I obtained my Instrument rating my friend loaned me the King Prep on VHS tape
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Did you get a Mooney?
 
bill98 said:
Did you get a Mooney?
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No... I used to lease a 70 M20C Ranger and loved it. My Dad had a Super 21, then a Executive followed by a Chaparral when I was a kid. My budget kept me in the Piper Cherokee 140 class. I have fond memories of the Ranger flying out of Santa Paula Ca. If I ever upgrade, it will be for a 201.

IMO, nothing beats the ramp appeal of a Mooney in the GA field
 
Try and get a ESuper 21 when you can!!
 
If you need off-line access, Sheppard. If you can be on-line the whole time, Gold Method.
 
With all this online chatter, I thought you had to have a CFI sign you off to take the test. If you are not doing “ground” with a CFI, how can you legally take the test if all you are doing is King, Gold, Shepherd etc.....?
 
While i think an endorsement to take a test is a silly thing, sheppard will write you an endorsement. Im going thru it right now and It's a royal pita and i believe they're making up "faa rules." For one, they insist on making the endorsement valid for a period time, approx 2 days. I like to find a gap in my work schedule and just zip down to the testing center whenever it is convenient for me. King schools and sportys gave me an open ended endorsement with no expiry dates. Sheppard also claims they are required to report the score you get to the faa, which again, neither king or sportys has required me to do.

All in all, if you have a cfi you're working with, the best thing is to use Sheppard to study and have that cfi write your endorsement. Most will do it if you have a good rapport and provide them with a practice test score.
 
My letter from the FAA saying I do not need another endorsement as I’ve already taken and passed the test (back in December 2009)
 
The King Schools advertise an Endorsement included as part of their written test prep. Not sure if its a boiler plate endorsement needing your CFI signature or if its good to go upon receipt
 
Mooney Fan said:
The King Schools advertise an Endorsement included as part of their written test prep. Not sure if its a boiler plate endorsement needing your CFI signature or if its good to go upon receipt
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It is one of their CFI's on staff signing it.
 
Cici said:
While i think an endorsement to take a test is a silly thing, sheppard will write you an endorsement. Im going thru it right now and It's a royal pita and i believe they're making up "faa rules." For one, they insist on making the endorsement valid for a period time, approx 2 days. I like to find a gap in my work schedule and just zip down to the testing center whenever it is convenient for me. King schools and sportys gave me an open ended endorsement with no expiry dates. Sheppard also claims they are required to report the score you get to the faa, which again, neither king or sportys has required me to do.

All in all, if you have a cfi you're working with, the best thing is to use Sheppard to study and have that cfi write your endorsement. Most will do it if you have a good rapport and provide them with a practice test score.
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I wonder if Sheppard does the 2 day thing because they say as soon as you score 90 or better on a practice they say got take the test immediately. After 2 days it might not be immediately enough?? No clue on the score reporting, does seem odd..
 
I'm going with the old stand-by I used for my initial.... Gleim Test Prep. Used American Flyers weekend course for my Instrument
 
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simtech said:
I wonder if Sheppard does the 2 day thing because they say as soon as you score 90 or better on a practice they say got take the test immediately. After 2 days it might not be immediately enough?? No clue on the score reporting, does seem odd..
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That's stupid. Most testing places keep working hours or limited hours and generally no weekends, and getting time off AND an appt at the testing center just doesn't happen that fast for anyone with we real job who can't drop it all and run down to the local CATS center, which is an hour and a half drive, at least for me.....
 
Unit74 said:
That's stupid. Most testing places keep working hours or limited hours and generally no weekends, and getting time off AND an appt at the testing center just doesn't happen that fast for anyone with we real job who can't drop it all and run down to the local CATS center, which is an hour and a half drive, at least for me.....
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I understand and am just speculating. I used sheppardair for my IR and got the endorsement from them as well. This was back in 2013 so I don't remember if there was a time limit on the endorsement or not. Im a lucky one, I work swing shift and I live 12 minutes away from a testing center. So I have all day to do whatever and hit up those places that close at normal duty day times.
 
simtech said:
I wonder if Sheppard does the 2 day thing because they say as soon as you score 90 or better on a practice they say got take the test immediately. After 2 days it might not be immediately enough?? No clue on the score reporting, does seem odd..
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I have no idea. They want the request to be within 4 days, but they don't seem to really care when the practice test was done.

Really, a major PITA. They also asked me what state I was planning to take my checkride in. What I feel this all boils down to is they have a bunch of people cheaping out on $45 and sharing the test preps (I'm looking at you ATP chumps). Which I get, they're asking for a fair price for a good product and then to have people sharing ipads or computers....doesn't seem right. I'm just a father for 3 doing this for a hobby and any of my friends that have money to spend on aviation, have $50 around for a test prep - so I'm not really their issue. Nor would I want to be "inconvenienced" by a buddy using my ipad that much. But to just make "FAA rules" up, not cool. All of this is complete and utter speculation on my part based on this bizarre behavior.
 
About 2/3 of the way through the Gleim CSEL Test Prep Book for the written. Couple of observations

- I guess VOR's are safe if I'm still having to use straight edges for the graph work on Lift and Drag, Max Glide, Drag/Load vs Velocity, Load Factor, Bank Angle vs Load, Fuel, Time And Distance to Climb and I could go on

- Weight Change and Weight Shift Computations- After a couple hours I think I got it. Useful computations but they overcomplicate it.

Graphs- just have a problem with the dragging along a line sideways, vertical, intersect this line and that then read the answer. Good thing the answers are far enough apart from each other that getting in the ball park works. Dug out my old E6B from the 90's, put some new batteries in and good to go.

Overall, I like the Gleim method for the prep. Once I complete it, will wash and repeat.... again, then again. I have the practice test cut out and ready to take it as many times at it takes to score consistently over 90%.

I have received a few positive responses from the survey and photo outfits.
 
Mooney Fan said:
About 2/3 of the way through the Gleim CSEL Test Prep Book for the written. Couple of observations

- I guess VOR's are safe if I'm still having to use straight edges for the graph work on Lift and Drag, Max Glide, Drag/Load vs Velocity, Load Factor, Bank Angle vs Load, Fuel, Time And Distance to Climb and I could go on

- Weight Change and Weight Shift Computations- After a couple hours I think I got it. Useful computations but they overcomplicate it.

Graphs- just have a problem with the dragging along a line sideways, vertical, intersect this line and that then read the answer. Good thing the answers are far enough apart from each other that getting in the ball park works. Dug out my old E6B from the 90's, put some new batteries in and good to go.

Overall, I like the Gleim method for the prep. Once I complete it, will wash and repeat.... again, then again. I have the practice test cut out and ready to take it as many times at it takes to score consistently over 90%.

I have received a few positive responses from the survey and photo outfits.
Click to expand...

I always take a scientific calculator to the test so I don't need to use the load factor or wind component graphs.
Code: 
load factor = 1 / cos(bank angle)
headwind component = cos(angle between runway and wind)*windspeed
crosswind component = sin(angle between runway and wind)*windspeed

There is a silly formula for weight shifting, but it is actually easier to do it the old-fashioned way:

Code: 
GIVEN:
A loaded aircraft with a gross weight of 2,500 lbs and CG of 42".

FIND:
Effect of shifting 50 pounds of cargo from the rear baggage compartment
(station 90) to the forward baggage compartment (station 40).

Item      | Weight | Arm | Moment
Orig Acft |   2500 | 42" | 105000
Rem Cargo |    -50 | 90" |  -4500
Add Cargo |    +50 | 40" |  +2000
---------------------------------
New Acft  |   2500 |     | 102500

New CG = Total Mom/Total Wt = 102500/2500 = 41"

There are a few commercial questions like "what is the maximum amount of fuel that can be added before the CG exceeds the forward limit" — there's a way to get an exact answer, but considering it's a multiple choice test with only 3 choices, you can do trial and error and plug in each answer choice like it's a conventional weight and balance problem until you find the correct one.
 
dmspilot said:
I always take a scientific calculator to the test so I don't need to use the load factor or wind component graphs.
Code: 
load factor = 1 / cos(bank angle)
headwind component = cos(angle between runway and wind)*windspeed
crosswind component = sin(angle between runway and wind)*windspeed

There is a silly formula for weight shifting, but it is actually easier to do it the old-fashioned way:

Code: 
GIVEN:
A loaded aircraft with a gross weight of 2,500 lbs and CG of 42".

FIND:
Effect of shifting 50 pounds of cargo from the rear baggage compartment
(station 90) to the forward baggage compartment (station 40).

Item      | Weight | Arm | Moment
Orig Acft |   2500 | 42" | 105000
Rem Cargo |    -50 | 90" |  -4500
Add Cargo |    +50 | 40" |  +2000
---------------------------------
New Acft  |   2500 |     | 102500

New CG = Total Mom/Total Wt = 102500/2500 = 41"

There are a few commercial questions like "what is the maximum amount of fuel that can be added before the CG exceeds the forward limit" — there's a way to get an exact answer, but considering it's a multiple choice test with only 3 choices, you can do trial and error and plug in each answer choice like it's a conventional weight and balance problem until you find the correct one.
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Thx... That is very neat and concise

The way my coconut head wraps around it

2500(42)= 105,000 Original Weight x moment
Subtract station 90-40 = 50
50(50)= 2500 (50 pounds of bags x new station 50)
105000-2500= 102500 (Moment- new moment)
102500/2500=41 (New Moment/Gross weight)
 
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dmspilot said:
I always take a scientific calculator to the test so I don't need to use the load factor or wind component graphs. . . .
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I was curious about the calculator requirements. I plan to take the commercial written in about a month. 15 years ago when I took the instrument written, they were not going to let me use my scienctific calculator because it was programmable. I showed the proctor that the memory was cleared and she let me use it but commented I was only supposed to bring a basic calculator. I also prefer to crank through the equations rather than trying to remember different shifting formulas. I also used to trig out some of the course distance deviations for the IFR test. Anyone recently had issues bringing a scientific calculator to the written?
 
Jim_CAK said:
I was curious about the calculator requirements. I plan to take the commercial written in about a month. 15 years ago when I took the instrument written, they were not going to let me use my scienctific calculator because it was programmable. I showed the proctor that the memory was cleared and she let me use it but commented I was only supposed to bring a basic calculator. I also prefer to crank through the equations rather than trying to remember different shifting formulas. I also used to trig out some of the course distance deviations for the IFR test. Anyone recently had issues bringing a scientific calculator to the written?
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I think the FAA specifically says programmable calculators aren't allowed. A simple one like this should be perfectly fine:

FX-260-VA-(homemade)-det.jpg
 
I just got the endorsement from goldmethod. On to the written...
 
dmspilot said:
I think the FAA specifically says programmable calculators aren't allowed. A simple one like this should be perfectly fine:

FX-260-VA-(homemade)-det.jpg
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Calculators such as the one pictured are likely prohibited.

But electronic "flight computers" such as the ones sold by Sporty's and ASA, those are permitted. Just be ready to comply with the request to remove the batteries for a short bit to demonstrate any short term memory has been erased.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Calculators such as the one pictured are likely prohibited.
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No they aren't.

AC60-11
The test proctor may provide calculating devices to applicants and deny them use of their personal calculating devices if the applicant’s device does not have a screen that indicates all memory has been erased. The test proctor must be able to determine the calculating device’s erasure capability. The use of calculating devices incorporating permanent or continuous type memory circuits without erasure capability are prohibited.

It's a solar calculator. It erases every time it's too dark.
 
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GeorgeC said:
I just got the endorsement from goldmethod. On to the written...
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Nice! I just received mine from Gleim. Probably will take the written next week. Had my first dual training yesterday. Lazy 8's, Steep spirals, Chandelles, short field take offs. Put the steep spiral to work with sim engine out over the numbers at 3K. Fun times
 
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