Commercial written (mild rant)

I think they're just saying, knowing the material alone will probably get you at least a passing grade, but to get a high grade (like mid to high 90s) you generally need to prepare for the test itself and its weird intricacies like some poorly worded/structured questions.
Maybe if more people got the poorly-written questions wrong, the FAA might have a mechanism to identify bad questions and fix them. But much like the examiner lead time problem, things sometimes don’t show up on the FAA’s radar because of the way we deal with them.
 
Maybe if more people got the poorly-written questions wrong, the FAA might have a mechanism to identify bad questions and fix them. But much like the examiner lead time problem, things sometimes don’t show up on the FAA’s radar because of the way we deal with them.

That seems like an awfully generous allowance towards the FAA and their way of doing business. Are you sure you're a pilot?
 
That seems like an awfully generous allowance towards the FAA and their way of doing business. Are you sure you're a pilot?
Pretty sure. ;)
But mostly I’ve been dealing with the FAA a long time, and I’ve found that when their “way of doing business” is determined to be unreasonable, it normally involves more bad assumptions about the way they do business than actual problems with the FAA’s way of doing business.
 
Maybe if more people got the poorly-written questions wrong, the FAA might have a mechanism to identify bad questions and fix them. But much like the examiner lead time problem, things sometimes don’t show up on the FAA’s radar because of the way we deal with them.
Heh…well they could start by proof-reading their own questions. ;) And a quick perusal of their charts might even mean they’d catch a couple printing errors.

And failing that, they could purchase a bit of test prep software (ha!) and identify the vast majority of the questions with straight errors.

And as a last resort they could read the reviews that they request test takers fill out after they finish exams. Whodathunk?

I mean, they do have options. :D

I’m mostly just messing. I do think it’s a real issue … but it also has a certain amount of farce to it after you’ve read this many questions in a row. My snark is really just snark/humor.
 
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Heh…well they could start by proof-reading their own questions. ;) And a quick perusal of their charts might even mean they’d catch a couple printing errors.

And failing that, they could purchase a bit of test prep software (ha!) and identify the vast majority of the questions with straight errors.

And as a last resort they could read the reviews that they request test takers fill out after they finish exams.

I mean, they do have options. :D
They could do a lot of things, but, being the FAA, the only things that matter are the things that have been written into their policies and procedures for correcting issues. And if applicants continually subvert those policies and procedures, the problems aren’t going to go away.
 
They could do a lot of things, but, being the FAA, the only things that matter are the things that have been written into their policies and procedures for correcting issues. And if applicants continually subvert those policies and procedures, the problems aren’t going to go away.
That’s a fair point of course. And policies often exist for a reason. But apparently these issues have been pointed out to the FAA, thru the proper channels for quite a while, with small effect, so far.

We’re, of course, not going to solve the problem on an Internet forum. Oh well. At least it fills in some study breaks =)
 
I find it hard to believe that there's no source for the actual test bank when Sheppard and others Guarantee that you won't see a question that's not in their material.
Granted they could just be saying that and then saying "prove it" when someone complains but that seems a bit risky.

"We guarantee that you will not see any scored questions on your actual FAA Written Exam that we did not have in our course for you to study. That's right, you study with our course for any test, and you will not see any scored questions but those questions on your test - or you get all your money back!"
 
I find it hard to believe that there's no source for the actual test bank when Sheppard and others Guarantee that you won't see a question that's not in their material.
Granted they could just be saying that and then saying "prove it" when someone complains but that seems a bit risky.

"We guarantee that you will not see any scored questions on your actual FAA Written Exam that we did not have in our course for you to study. That's right, you study with our course for any test, and you will not see any scored questions but those questions on your test - or you get all your money back!"

Maybe they have a mole?
 
I used Shepard Air - the questions were identical to the study questions. Even the bad questions were there. Shepard tells you which answer the FAA is looking for. Follow their method and you will not only pass, but get a really good grade. My CFI didn’t like them - pretty much saying I should know the material without test prep. It’s a test - get it out of the way.
 
+1 on Shepard Air. I used them for both instrument and commercial. Absolutely fantastic if you understand its use. Test prep. Having said that, if you review the explanation for each answer, you'll gain some practical knowledge, as well.
 
Maybe they have a mole?
That's the only way I can see them being able to provide what they do if in fact the FAA doesn't release the questions. They are word for word the same.
I'm more inclined to believe that they have some other way of getting the questions that aren't released in bulk to the public but is above board somehow, otherwise the FAA would shut them down.
 
Study the test prep...Gleim, ASA, etc....go take the test and move on. If you have a problem with a specific question, you can tell the proctor at the testing site. I had one question thrown out when I took my Airframe written...people make mistakes.

Back in the day ( here we go young-uns ) we had to read the study material and hope for the best...no test prep questions to memorize on the computer.:)
 
Back in the day ( here we go young-uns ) we had to read the study material and hope for the best...no test prep questions to memorize on the computer.:)

Another example of why the 'good old days' weren't always.

And for the record, I also survived that era.
 
Study the test prep...Gleim, ASA, etc....go take the test and move on. If you have a problem with a specific question, you can tell the proctor at the testing site. I had one question thrown out when I took my Airframe written...people make mistakes.

Back in the day ( here we go young-uns ) we had to read the study material and hope for the best...no test prep questions to memorize on the computer.:)
In the early 90s, we didn't have computer test prep, we had the actual FAA test questions. So if you were inclined to memorize (I'm not), it was a cakewalk.
 
Doug Reid said:

"Back in the day ( here we go young-uns ) we had to read the study material and hope for the best...no test prep questions to memorize on the computer."



When preparing for my PPL written, I signed up for a Commercial ground school taught by a pair of recent ATP's. They wrote their own handouts and tests. 3/4 of the way through, I was ready for the flight test, so took the written. I had been self studying for months prior, and found few questions on the written that I did not understand


Score, high 80's, and the review my flight instructor gave me covering the areas that I missed were covered in the ground school after the FAA test. I scored nearly 100% on the school exam.

There were some very tricky questions, but if I carefully puzzled out the intent, they made sense.

Later, for my Commercial and Instrument, I had the Piper training materials, self study, and took both on the same day, passed with a score in the high 80's.

A friend took the Commercial at the same time, failed, and complained about the confusing questions. He used the same study materials as I did.

The test is not perfect, never was, but if you know and understand the material, I suspect that you will get at least a passing grade.

My orals went very well, as I had learned, not memorized the material, and the DPE's asked practical questions.
 
one could say "I'm actually learning all the material so I know it" IS gooder than "I'm just studying these specific test questions so I can pass the test", no?

One could, if one felt they were mutually exclusive options. However, I do not feel they are, which is why I previously posted (post #24 if you care to go back and look)

So my advice has always been to use test prep where possible, do learn the answers for specific gotcha questions, pass the test. But, before you do, make sure you know the material as that is what is going to (in the case of flying) allow you to pass the oral exams but more importantly it might save your life or your career.

But, in the interest of being an engaged member of POA, I will agree that if you ONLY had two options:
1) know the material, no test prep possible or
2) know the answers, but have no idea why

Then yes, option 1 is gooder.
 
So I got my PPL back in the days of the actual book version of the question bank. I hated studying that way (still do) and ran out of steam about half way thru anyway. In my defense I was 15-16 and got bored easily. :D I preferred to read books … and pester my CFI, the ground school instructor … the shop mechanics … the FBO front desk … heck I’d talk to the airport cat if I figured he’d tell me about airplanes. And watched every video tape of John and Martha King I could find between washing airplane bellies and pumping 80 gasoline (it was 1994…).

The point is, I’ve refined my study style a little. :rolleyes: I’m still a nerd that likes to understand everything he can about this flying thing, but I’d rather get the written out of the way so I can actually start learning. Confusing, poorly written questions and tests get in the way of actual, useful learning and really just slow down the whole process. It would be cool if the FAA figured a way out to fix that. Make it either real world applicable (certainly more than it is now), less “gotcha”, or at the very least just make it clean and clear and concise.

MauleSkinner - requests/comment/feedback has been made both thru the feedback options available on the tests themselves (the only “proper channel” made available to prospective pilots that I am aware of) as well as directly to the (as I understand it) Airman Testing Standards office from at least one of the test prep companies I’ve spoke to. I’m sure there are other avenues.
 
I went through Shepard for IR this spring and many questions were similar but not exactly the same. I only noticed because I went through the test twice and saw the differences.
 
Everytime I see a complaint about FAA writtens, I remember USAF closed book and open book exams.
 
Everytime I see a complaint about FAA writtens, I remember USAF closed book and open book exams.

I went through USAF electronics school at Lowry AFB in the '60s. On the first day, they said to raise your hand if you think you can pass the final exam. I did and did. They made me a "tutor."

I had special privileges and never had to go to school.

But I made sure that nobody EVER failed a USAF exam.
 
Funny thing is, those who have “studied the questions”, but not necessarily know the material, can sign off the folks to take the commercial written.
 
But it’s still an annoyance when you’re being tested and you end up with something like 1,325 feet and have an answer at 1,453 and one at 1,260. Wellp … time to round to the nearest. Except then you remember the FAA loves to round against the “rules” half the time…

It’s kinda funny actually.

Which rounding rules would affect an FAA answer? They often bracket the correct answer with some duds to test one's math, but have never seen a question where simple rounding rules would cause one to pick the wrong answer.

I have to send my engineers the ASTM/IEEE rounding rules routinely - while there is no "one true way" (apparently, my high school math teacher would strongly disagree), we use the "prejudice against the odd" method wherein odd numbers get rounded up at the halfway split, evens down. I.e., 247.5 rounds to 248; 248.5 rounds to 248.

Don't even get me started on precision of the answer as provided by the calculator as opposed to being appropriate to the data set. One has 47 patients in a cohort and then state a mean age of 65.436.
 
Don't even get me started on precision of the answer as provided by the calculator as opposed to being appropriate to the data set. One has 47 patients in a cohort and then state a mean age of 65.436.
I’ve always liked the “slide rule accuracy” method one of my college professors used…3 digits for everything unless the number started with a 1, in which case it was 4 digits.
 
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