Commercial sim time requirements are confusing. Can somehow who got a commercial pilot cert with sim time help out?

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ImABird

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ImABird
Ok. I've read all the regs. Let me get this right.

So the simulated instrument during private phase doesn't count for instrument time for instrument rating.

The Sim time during private doesn't count for instrument rating.

Does it count for commercial rating then? It's not very specific in the reg which says 50 hours it just says "Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a full flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought;"

It doesn't say thr sim time has to be specifically for commercial training.

So will the 20 hours sim time max for instrument count towards the 50 for commercial? What about any sim time done for private?

I'm befuddled here because if I waste 20 or 50 hours on a sim only to realize I havw to pay again for flight time, then I may as well log flight time.

The only way to know is if a current CFI or commercial pilot who used 50 hours sim time or close to it can clarify.

Before anyone asks yes our sim has an LOA and is legit. Others have used it and been able to meet the aeronautical requirements.

The wording is just so confusing.

If the 20 hours sim time for instrument counts for the 50 total in commercial than I'll do some sim time too, and still mostly do 80% flight 20% sim.

If instrument sim time doesn't count for commercial than it's a waste of time and I'll get flight hours instead.

Does private sim time count for commercial?

The commercial minimum training time is only 20 hours and instrument is 40 hours of which only 15 are required to have an instructor.

Does the safety pilot need to be an instrument pilot during instrument training or can it be a private pilot and we fly in VMC conditions while I put on the hood?

I have 125 hours. If I get 20 hours sim time and 20 hours training that's $2600 for 20 hours sim time and $4360 for 20 hours actual instrument flying.

Then I'd have 145 flight hours and 20 sim. By the time I complete my 50 xc hour requirements for IR rating I'll have about 175 hours and by the time I get 100 hours PIC I'll have 217 hours with 20 hours sim TIME. Add in 20 hours commercial training that's 237hrs with 20 hours sim time it would be 237 flight + 20 sim equals =257. Would this be enough to get a commercial pilot license?
 
Holy word salad. The 50 hours of sim/FTD time you're allowed to credit under 61.129(i)(1)(i) is toward the total aeronautical experience requirement of 61.129(a). It does not matter what kind of training the sim time was or whether you were a student pilot, private, IR or not, etc.
 
dmspilot said:
Holy word salad. The 50 hours of sim/FTD time you're allowed to credit under 61.129(i)(1)(i) is toward the total aeronautical experience requirement of 61.129(a). It does not matter what kind of training the sim time was or whether you were a student pilot, private, IR or not, etc.
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Are you sure? I'm getting conflicting answers everywhere I researched online. The ONLY way to get a clear answer here is if someone who got a commercial cert with sim time can explain.

61.129a deals with commercial aeronautical experience. So your saying my 15 hours sim time in private and 20 hours instrument count towards 50 hours sim time total for commercial pilot?

Does the basic simulated instrument training during private phase for inadvertent IMC entry count towards 40 hours Instrument training?

To be a CFI, do you need 250 hours actual flight time or just 200 hours flight and 50 sim time?

For instrument training without instructor can the safety pilot be a private pilot only or is he required to have instrument?

Also..I haven't started commercial yet but I've flown g1000s more than 10 hours. So does that mean my 10 hour TAA requirement for commercial is satisfied? Do the 40 hours instrument training during instrument rating training satisfy the 10 hour instrument training time required commercial?

So that only leaves my with 20 hours commercial training right?
 
dmspilot said:
Maybe the reason you're getting different answers is because your question(s) is (are) so confusing. In one breath you ask about completely unrelated things...
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I would expect nothing less. This is the same person who wrote another similar post that's as confusing as it is ridiculous.
And for reasons outlined here I will be 0% surprised if the account is a troll.
 
This shouldn’t be as complex as you’re making it. 61.129(a)(3)(I) explains exactly what is needed. If you have an Instrument rating, then you should have that requirement.
ImABird said:
Also..I haven't started commercial yet but I've flown g1000s more than 10 hours. So does that mean my 10 hour TAA requirement for commercial is satisfied? Do the 40 hours instrument training during instrument rating training satisfy the 10 hour instrument training time required commercial?
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It’s a bit concerning that you’re trying to become a Commercial Pilot and can’t answer this question on your own. G1000 doesn’t mean TAA. The FAA has a definition that you can look up for what meets the requirements for a TAA aircraft.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Someone asked me this the other day. Is there a G1000 installation around that is not a TAA?
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Yeah, if the airplane doesn’t have a two-axis autopilot than it wouldn’t be TAA.
 
RyanB said:
This shouldn’t be as complex as you’re making it. 61.129(a)(3)(I) explains exactly what is needed. If you have an Instrument rating, then you should have that requirement.

It’s a bit concerning that you’re trying to become a Commercial Pilot and can’t answer this question on your own. G1000 doesn’t mean TAA. The FAA has a definition that you can look up for what meets the requirements for a TAA aircraft.
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I have and it does meet the requirement. But the FAA regs are spelled in a very confusing legalese way
 
RyanB said:
Yeah, if the airplane doesn’t have a two-axis autopilot than it wouldn’t be TAA.
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We have autopilot. I use it often actually when building hours

Really the simplest way is for a commercial pilot or beyond here to explain their experience. If you could explain how much sim time vs flight time you had when you got commercial, and from what phases of training thr sim time counted for commercial for you, then I could repeat a similar course of action.

My instructor says any sim time to count for commercial it must be done for commercial training I.e. Sim time for instrument training doesn't count towards the 50 for commercial.

Yet others say even their private pilot sim time counted for their 50 hours sim time for commercial.

Therr is so much conflicting and contradictory report as well as the reg for commercial pilot requirements that doesn't clarify exactly what 50 hrs of sim time means I.e. Is it all the Sim time you have accumulated since a student pilot, or is it just after private pilot, or is the 50 hr sim time only count after instrument rating and working on commercial, that it's impossible for me to write a plan of how I intend to reach commercial.

Yet no one here understands my dillema. I've done research for weeks and there is not a single answer that doesn't contradict another.

So please commercial pilots or cfis or ATPS, can you please explain how many flight and sim hours you had when you got commercial and during what phases of training were those sim times acquired? Does sim time as a student pilot count for commercial 50 hour sim time or does sim time only count after your a private pilot training for instrument and beyond?

But I have a feeling no commercial pilot or beyond wants to answer. You see someone that's confused and you like it. You hope by not answering they'll quit or something, less competition for you. Relax I'm not here to compete with you.

I thought reddit was full of arrogant pilots with a chip on their shoulder but it's the same here. No one gives a concise answer from experience.

Forget thr fkn sim. I'll just do everything in real flight hours that way I don't bother. I'll just have more actual flight time anyway.
 
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RyanB said:
Yeah, if the airplane doesn’t have a two-axis autopilot than it wouldn’t be TAA.
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Same question.
RyanB said:
Yeah, if the airplane doesn’t have a two-axis autopilot than it wouldn’t be TAA.
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I may have led a privileged youth :D, but I have flown G1000 aircraft since 2009 and have not come across one without a 2-axis autopilot. Were there models built without one?
 
midlifeflyer said:
Someone asked me this the other day. Is there a G1000 installation around that is not a TAA?
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I think there’s a small number of G1000 172s that didn’t have the KAP140. I seem to recall seeing the POH/AFM referencing (if installed) and calling out single and dual axis APs but can’t verify it.
 
dmspilot said:
Holy word salad. The 50 hours of sim/FTD time you're allowed to credit under 61.129(i)(1)(i) is toward the total aeronautical experience requirement of 61.129(a). It does not matter what kind of training the sim time was or whether you were a student pilot, private, IR or not, etc.
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ImABird said:
Are you sure? I'm getting conflicting answers everywhere I researched online. The ONLY way to get a clear answer here is if someone who got a commercial cert with sim time can explain.
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Yes he's sure. It at least counts toward the overall 250 that doesn't need to be in an airplane or an airplane cross country.

Beyond that, I would be sitting down with an instructor to review your logbook entries to see what else it might count for.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Same question.

I may have led a privileged youth :D, but I have flown G1000 aircraft since 2009 and have not come across one without a 2-axis autopilot. Were there models built without one?
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Yep! A couple of the 172’s in the rental fleet here don’t have autopilot’s with their G1000’s. If you need TAA time, you either have to rent one that does, or for me, I got some time in a new SR20. ;)
 
ImABird said:
Yet no one here understands my dillema. I've done research for weeks and there is not a single answer that doesn't contradict another.
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Yes, we do understand your dilemma. Instead of reading a regulation and taking it at face value you are asking the opinion of others who do not take the reg at face value and disregarding the statements of people who do take it at face value.
 
So one or two guys any sim time counts.

Ok. But. This would be so much simpler if only someone who used plenty of sim time to get commercial in the last rexent years, would explain how they go their commercial and how much sim time they applied and from which phases or training the sims were
 
ImABird said:
So one or two guys any sim time counts.

Ok. But. This would be so much simpler if only someone who used plenty of sim time to get commercial in the last rexent years, would explain how they go their commercial and how much sim time they applied and from which phases or training the sims were
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I don’t understand what’s so confusing about “Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a full flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; ”

You can credit up to 50 hours of simulator/FTD toward your 250.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I don’t understand what’s so confusing about “Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a full flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; ”

You can credit up to 50 hours of simulator/FTD toward your 250.
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Because I need to be 100% certain.

I don't want to get to 200 flight hours and have 50 sim hours for example only to be told my sim hours during my first days as a student pilot don't apply for commercials 50 hours.

If I have an accurate understanding I can plan out a cost effective and efficient route to commercial in an excel spreadsheet, without that I can't plot a course of action to follow.

I have a total of about 17 sim hours. 15 during private and 2 during instrument, I have been opting for actual flight time for instrument becsuse in worried sim time may not count for commercials 250. If I can save costs I could do more sim time during instrument since instrument is procedural based and what you do in a sim applies right in the plane.

Below is my school's redbird LOA. It says 50 hours sim time for commercial. I tried asking my instructor also but he insists I focus on instrument. Why is it this one question is so impossible to answer? Fine. Since everyone claims my first sim ever as a fresh student pilot counts, then I'll count it towards the 50 hrs.

Sim time may not be flight time nor count towards total time, but in the end it effectively does.

IMG_2612.jpeg
 
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1) If the simulator you are using meets the requirements (any sim in a flight school will) then it counts towards your IFR rating. When I took my IFR check ride, I brought the letter from the flight school describing the simulator I used. Bonus: Your IFR training as a pre private student also counts.

2) The Oord letter

"Bless their Hearts" - Even if you are instrument rated, you still need the additional 10 hours of IFR training for the commercial rating. Yep - your IFR training for your IR doesn't count (The additional IFR training is exactly what you already did). It needs to marked / logged explicitly as unusual attitude recovery, partial panel, etc. It has to be done POST IFR check ride. I've had my IR for 2 years, and I'm just finishing up my extra IFR training as the last requirements for the Commercial check ride.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;
 
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WDD said:
"Bless their Hearts" - Even if you are instrument rated, you still need the additional 10 hours of IFR training for the commercial rating. Yep - your IFR training for your IR doesn't count (The additional IFR training is exactly what you already did). It needs to marked / logged explicitly as unusual attitude recovery, partial panel, etc. It has to be done POST IFR check ride. I've had my IR for 2 y
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What if you did Commercial before instrument?
 
WDD said:
1) If the simulator you are using meets the requirements (any sim in a flight school will) then it counts towards your IFR rating. When I took my IFR check ride, I brought the letter from the flight school describing the simulator I used. Bonus: Your IFR training as a pre private student also counts.

2) The Oord letter

"Bless their Hearts" - Even if you are instrument rated, you still need the additional 10 hours of IFR training for the commercial rating. Yep - your IFR training for your IR doesn't count (The additional IFR training is exactly what you already did). It needs to marked / logged explicitly as unusual attitude recovery, partial panel, etc. It has to be done POST IFR check ride. I've had my IR for 2 years, and I'm just finishing up my extra IFR training as the last requirements for the Commercial check ride.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;
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you might reread the letter you posted. It specifically states that the time can be counted for both if it’s properly logged, and says nothing about requiring additional training post-IFR checkride.
 
ImABird said:
This would be so much simpler if only someone who used plenty of sim time to get commercial in the last rexent years, would explain how they go their commercial and how much sim time they applied and from which phases or training the sims were
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I can’t tell if you’re intentionally trying to be obstinate or actually can’t understand what everyone is telling you, so I’m not sure if it would really make it that much simpler.

I had just received my Instrument rating shortly before starting on Commercial, so we double dipped on the requirements to meet both regs. Honestly of all the regs, this one is pretty clear cut imho.
 
ImABird said:
Sim time may not be flight time nor count towards total time, but in the end it effectively does.
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How do you figure? If you get your Commercial with 200 flight hours and 50 sim hours, you still only have 200 flight hours, not 250. That doesn't get you any closer to insurability or hiring minimums for a job.

What I mean is that if a job or insurance requires even just 250 hours, you now have to get 50 more in a plane somehow. If you didn't use the sim, you'd already have enough. So using the sim may in the long run actually cost you more (since you're paying for 50 sim hours AND 50 airplane hours), unless you do actually find a paying job/insurability at 200 hours.
 
MauleSkinner said:
you might reread the letter you posted. It specifically states that the time can be counted for both if it’s properly logged, and says nothing about requiring additional training post-IFR checkride.
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Theoretically yes. But in reality some DPEs accept things that others don’t. Ironically the clarification muddied the waters IMHO.
 
WDD said:
Theoretically yes. But in reality some DPEs accept things that others don’t. Ironically the clarification muddied the waters IMHO.
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In reality, what a DPE accepts or doesn’t accept doesn’t change the regs.
 
ateamer said:
‘Cause he’s just in love with the idea of getting paid to fly instead of the flying itself.
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No.

I'm actually considering not doing the Sim

It's boring and in the end I'm afraid I'll need to get those real flight hours anyway. I have about 18.5 sim hours.

I think that's enough. And tbh I got 15 of those sim hours for free, with an instructor yes.
 
midlifeflyer said:
OTOH, what's so horrible about 250 hours in an airplane?
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Nothing. I'm considering doing just this. It's more headache free and less boring. Once I am comfortable enough I'll just get a safety pilot to finish my IFR requirements. I'm already putting 1 hour on average per day in doing the xc time, and all of them at night
 
WDD said:
1) If the simulator you are using meets the requirements (any sim in a flight school will) then it counts towards your IFR rating. When I took my IFR check ride, I brought the letter from the flight school describing the simulator I used. Bonus: Your IFR training as a pre private student also counts.

2) The Oord letter

"Bless their Hearts" - Even if you are instrument rated, you still need the additional 10 hours of IFR training for the commercial rating. Yep - your IFR training for your IR doesn't count (The additional IFR training is exactly what you already did). It needs to marked / logged explicitly as unusual attitude recovery, partial panel, etc. It has to be done POST IFR check ride. I've had my IR for 2 years, and I'm just finishing up my extra IFR training as the last requirements for the Commercial check ride.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in § 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;
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It's legalese. For all we know this only applies to rotorcraft.

So everyone here with a commercial has done additional 10 hours IFR to get commercial?

I'm guessing the simulated instrument during private counts towards the 40 hrs instrument needs?
 
ImABird said:
It's legalese. For all we know this only applies to rotorcraft.
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Might I suggest reading the entire document, including footnotes?
Footnote 1, page 1 states:
Although the 2010 legal interpretation to Mr. Theriault specifically focused on training for a commercial pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category helicopter class rating under § 61.129( c ), the F AA's interpretation applies equally to flight training in the airplane category under§ 61.129.
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ImABird said:
It's legalese. For all we know this only applies to rotorcraft.
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guest user said:
Might I suggest reading the entire document, including footnotes?
Footnote 1, page 1 states:
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When you insist that it has to be complicated and fervently believe that it is, it’s easy to ignore things like that.

Sounds like it might be a case of regulitis.

Regaphobia and Regulitis - related but different​
​
Regaphobia. A self-fulfilling, irrational fear of reading regulations based on a belief they are incomprehensible. The sufferer simply avoids even trying.​
​
Regulitis. Psychological conditon which causes people of average or better intelligence to lose basic reading comprehension skills when looking at regulations. It is sometimes associated with the FAA-Anon movement whose followers believe all FARs have hidden meanings.​
​
Fortunately, regulitis is a psychological condition as opposed to the more serious Reglexia, which is a neurological condition​
 
ImABird said:
So everyone here with a commercial has done additional 10 hours IFR to get commercial?

I'm guessing the simulated instrument during private counts towards the 40 hrs instrument needs?
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Regarding the 10 hrs: I think you’ve seen most of the answers here have been, “NO”. Unless (as someone pointed out with an example) you’re going for your Comm BEFORE going for your IFR.

I think there was one who said the 10 for Comm had to be -after- the IFR rating and was immediately corrected.

You are correct that the 3 hours of “flight by reference to instruments” you did during your private training will count towards that 40.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ImABird said:
…So everyone here with a commercial has done additional 10 hours IFR to get commercial?
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No. And in your other thread, you were given the answer on how to do this in conjunction with IFR training.

The unfortunate part is that BATDs and AATDs rapidly lose value, because they are procedural trainers (and do very well at that). Beyond about 10hrs or so, you’ve done just about all the ‘learning’ you can on a gross level and the fine level learning is inherently reliant on the BATD/AATD ‘cockpit’ being an accurate reproduction of the equipment you’re flying, and none of the TDs in those categories are.
 
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