Commercial Pilotry / Responsibility for gathering info

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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As a private pilot, I am supposed to get all information related to the flight

So if you fly for an airline, does the pilot get metars and tafs and notams, etc? Or does the pilot show up and get given info that stands out?

Meaning. When I fly, there is a good chance I am going or not going based on my research.

If you are flying paying pax on a prescheduled flight, does the captain still do all that work that I am supposed to do. Seems the company for liability reasons would have middlemen that are in charge of the go no go stuff

Walk me through the 5 hours before up until pushback life of a commercial airliner pilot. Skip the hookers and blow parts. That is understood.
 
Dad flies for an airline. Tells me dispatch gives him a packet of info regarding the flight, including weather info (METARS, TAFS, area forecast, etc). I never asked who makes the final call as to the flight going or not, but assume the captain has the final say (though I imagine there's pressure from the company to make the flight for revenue reasons).
 
I'm not a airline guy, but for what it's worth for on demand 135, we have to do our own research.
 
That is a separate job. Done by an Aircraft Dispatcher. From what I know pilots show at the airport 45 minutes prior to take-off. They are handed a packet of papers with all the weather, NOTAMS, filed flight plan, fuel plan, passenger manifest, take-off and landing data, and weight and balance. All of it is already calculated by the aircraft dispatcher. He reviews it real quick, then sends the co-pilot out to do the walk around, they run through the before start checklists, tell the flight attendants to close the door, then away they go.
 
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The Pilot In Command gets all the information pertaining to the Flight.

In 121 airline operations, he/she gets a lot of it from the (licensed) airline dispatcher.
 
At my 135 scheduled airline, we don't have dispatchers, so the PIC has the sole responsibility, just as you in 91. Our flight ops does file canned flight plans and they'll look ahead at our loads to suggest a fuel order and such, but again, at the end of it all it's on us. They'll help us out all then can, but since they're dot certificated dispatchers, they have no liability.
 
mjburian said:
Dad flies for an airline. Tells me dispatch gives him a packet of info regarding the flight, including weather info (METARS, TAFS, area forecast, etc). I never asked who makes the final call as to the flight going or not, but assume the captain has the final say (though I imagine there's pressure from the company to make the flight for revenue reasons).
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Gucci Pilot said:
That is a separate job. Done by an Aircraft Dispatcher. From what I know pilots show at the airport 45 minutes prior to take-off. They are handed a packet of papers with all the weather, NOTAMS, filed flight plan, fuel plan, passenger manifest, take-off and landing data, and weight and balance. All of it is already calculated by the aircraft dispatcher. He reviews it real quick, then sends the co-pilot out to do the walk around, they run through the before start checklists, tell the flight attendants to close the door, then away they go.
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Mason said:
The Pilot In Command gets all the information pertaining to the Flight.

In 121 airline operations, he/she gets a lot of it from the (licensed) airline dispatcher.
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As stated above, Part 121 airlines use a licensed dispatcher to prepare flight plans and weather. The dispatcher reviews all of the information, as well as aircraft status (load, MEL items, alternates) and gives the package to the PIC to review. The PIC can make changes as he sees fit (fuel load, routing, alternates, etc)

The dispatcher and Captain have "joint release responsibility", in other words they must both agree to release the flight. If either has a problem with the information he can decline to release the flight.
 
By the regulation, the PIC is charged only with becoming familiar with the material, not gathering it personally.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight.
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Nothing there about who does the actual gathering. So, using a dispatcher or other party to do the gathering is legally fine as long as you become familiar with it all, and that applies equally to Part 91 light plane pilots as it does to Part 121 airline captains.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Walk me through the 5 hours before up until pushback life of a commercial airliner pilot. Skip the hookers and blow parts. That is understood.
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I'm a professional and take my responsibilities seriously. I follow the book, which clearly states that I'm to give myself at least 8 hours after raging with hookers and blow.

5 hours? Sheesh. Maybe at Southwest! :)
 
FWIW, FAR 121 supplemental carriers are not required to have dispatchers. They have flight followers that may or may not be licensed dispatchers.
 
kayoh190 said:
I'm a professional and take my responsibilities seriously. I follow the book, which clearly states that I'm to give myself at least 8 hours after raging with hookers and blow.

5 hours? Sheesh. Maybe at Southwest! :)
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I knew there was a reason why the Southwest pilots always grease their landings. Hookers and blow FTW!
 
dang it......now I'm in the mood for hookers and blow. thanks a lot!
 
RotorAndWing said:
As stated above, Part 121 airlines use a licensed dispatcher to prepare flight plans and weather. The dispatcher reviews all of the information, as well as aircraft status (load, MEL items, alternates) and gives the package to the PIC to review. The PIC can make changes as he sees fit (fuel load, routing, alternates, etc)

The dispatcher and Captain have "joint release responsibility", in other words they must both agree to release the flight. If either has a problem with the information he can decline to release the flight.
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Yep..
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
At my 135 scheduled airline, we don't have dispatchers, so the PIC has the sole responsibility, just as you in 91. Our flight ops does file canned flight plans and they'll look ahead at our loads to suggest a fuel order and such, but again, at the end of it all it's on us. They'll help us out all then can, but since they're dot certificated dispatchers, they have no liability.
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This is the same for myself. The only difference is we are 135 unscheduled
 
While we are on this subject, how do they do the weight and balance? Assuming they use the weight from the checked bags. Average weight per person and carry On?
 
Topper said:
While we are on this subject, how do they do the weight and balance? Assuming they use the weight from the checked bags. Average weight per person and carry On?
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Per SOP, my 135 is not authorized to use standard weights. We are required to use actual +10lbs. Based on what their DL says or what they tell us, we automatically add 10. If we think that's clearly low (happens way more often than you'd think. You say 180? Writes down 260...), then we can add more, but never less. Checked, carry-on, and personal items are individually weighed.
 
Usually the dispatcher for the particular airline does this or the flight scheduler. The Pilots usually just fly the plane, all the other things are already planned out as far as i know.
 
Ryanb said:
Usually the dispatcher for the particular airline does this or the flight scheduler. The Pilots usually just fly the plane, all the other things are already planned out as far as i know.
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When my dad was the 767 and 747 he and the other pilots would plan out alternates and Equal Time Points (I think that's what they are called). For example, going to London, if they had an engine failure and were before that certain point, they would turn back to Canada. if they were past that point, they would go to Ireland. Even though they get all the stuff from the dispatcher, they still have to do an enormous amount of planning and coordination with each other and the flight attendants.
 
RotorAndWing said:
As stated above, Part 121 airlines use a licensed dispatcher to prepare flight plans and weather. The dispatcher reviews all of the information, as well as aircraft status (load, MEL items, alternates) and gives the package to the PIC to review. The PIC can make changes as he sees fit (fuel load, routing, alternates, etc)

The dispatcher and Captain have "joint release responsibility", in other words they must both agree to release the flight. If either has a problem with the information he can decline to release the flight.
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How often does that happen??:dunno:

Never ?
Rare ?
Too Often? :dunno::dunno:
 
N801BH said:
How often does that happen??:dunno:

Never ?
Rare ?
Too Often? :dunno::dunno:
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Every once in a while I find a discrepancy in the fuel load, usually not by much, but enough for me to call for the fuel truck to put more on. Or the alternate they filed for me is unsuitable as an alternate.
 
jordane93 said:
When my dad was the 767 and 747
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I'm going to start a new drinking game in your honor. Every time you start a post with "When my Dad...", "My Dad is a Delta pilot and..." or some variation thereof, everyone needs to take a drink.

If you mention your Dad *and* Ron Levy tells everyone he has 10,000+ hours in the same thread, we all do a shot!



(I'm just busting your balls, Jordan! It's cool that you're proud of your pops. :) )
 
kayoh190 said:
I'm going to start a new drinking game in your honor. Every time you start a post with "When my Dad...", "My Dad is a Delta pilot and..." or some variation thereof, everyone needs to take a drink.

If you mention your Dad *and* Ron Levy tells everyone he has 10,000+ hours in the same thread, we all do a shot!



(I'm just busting your balls, Jordan! It's cool that you're proud of your pops. :) )
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When my dad:goofy:...
 
jordane93 said:
When my dad:goofy:...
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Hahaha! ::takes a drink::

N801BH said:
How often does that happen??:dunno:

Never ?
Rare ?
Too Often? :dunno::dunno:
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Very rarely. Usually I find out my flight has been cancelled before I've even left the hotel. But when things are marginal and we're at the airplane, I've never been in a situation where there was any disagreement about what we were going to do.

Typically any discrepancies are fuel related, stemming from things the dispatcher isn't aware of, such as a crappy ground air unit on a warm day, forcing us to run the APU longer than we'd like, or longer than usual taxi lines. Unlike Gucci Pilot, we can't call the fueler directly, so any additional fuel has to be coordinated through dispatch.
 
kayoh190 said:
Unlike Gucci Pilot, we can't call the fueler directly, so any additional fuel has to be coordinated through dispatch.
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Oh we call a person that calls about 12 other people to get us fuel. Why it takes almost an hour before the truck shows up. :D
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Per SOP, my 135 is not authorized to use standard weights. We are required to use actual +10lbs. Based on what their DL says or what they tell us, we automatically add 10. If we think that's clearly low (happens way more often than you'd think. You say 180? Writes down 260...), then we can add more, but never less. Checked, carry-on, and personal items are individually weighed.
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I love getting a plane full of people who all tell me they weigh 150 pounds.

Do I write down 160? Yup. If you're following the letter of your GOM why not just write down the asked weight +10? That's all you are required to do. You can take more stuffs that way (although we do actually have to weigh the stuffs)
 
Gucci Pilot said:
Oh we call a person that calls about 12 other people to get us fuel. Why it takes almost an hour before the truck shows up. :D
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Haha! So true. I used to work for a company where we'd be the ones to give the fuel order to the fueler. That was eventually nipped in the bud after the company got tired of pilots always throwing an extra couple thousand pounds onboard 'for grandma'. :wink2:
 
DavidWhite said:
I love getting a plane full of people who all tell me they weigh 150 pounds.

Do I write down 160? Yup. If you're following the letter of your GOM why not just write down the asked weight +10? That's all you are required to do. You can take more stuffs that way (although we do actually have to weigh the stuffs)
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Yeah, I know I could just write it down +10 and and extra 100lbs wouldn't be noticeable in a 'Van (I have a buddy that has flown one 4,000lbs over just fine...), but I figure why not be a bit more accurate if it usually won't affect my loading anyway? And what if you have multiple culprits that lie? Once out of Jonesboro, AR, I had 8 guys from the local football team, and they used the weights reported on their drivers license which was clearly from years earlier. If we wouldn't have adjusted, we would've been nearly 1,000lbs over. That's the only time I had to adjust my fuel order due to adding extra weight.

And on the off chance that something happens, I can conceive of the FAA using that as an argument: "Well, clearly they weighed more, so you should have factored that into your planning. Poor ADM. Pilot error. We'll take that expensive piece of plastic from you now." I figure it's a simple CYA procedure that will always error on the side of safety...
 
Topper said:
While we are on this subject, how do they do the weight and balance? Assuming they use the weight from the checked bags. Average weight per person and carry On?
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Large jet charter airlines are allowed to use standard passenger and bag weights, unless it is a sports team or military. At my former airline, we were allowed to use a lower average pax weight for Hadj flights.
 
kayoh190 said:
I'm going to start a new drinking game in your honor. Every time you start a post with "When my Dad...", "My Dad is a Delta pilot and..." or some variation thereof, everyone needs to take a drink.

If you mention your Dad *and* Ron Levy tells everyone he has 10,000+ hours in the same thread, we all do a shot!



(I'm just busting your balls, Jordan! It's cool that you're proud of your pops. :) )
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In college one bright dude decided to have a kegger Cheech and Chong movie night. Everyone was to take a drink every time they said "man".

Didn't work out so well, everyone was passed out within 15min.
 
kayoh190 said:
I'm going to start a new drinking game in your honor. Every time you start a post with "When my Dad...", "My Dad is a Delta pilot and..." or some variation thereof, everyone needs to take a drink.

If you mention your Dad *and* Ron Levy tells everyone he has 10,000+ hours in the same thread, we all do a shot!



(I'm just busting your balls, Jordan! It's cool that you're proud of your pops. :) )
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Or when henning says "engine out" or "crash"........Trifecta!
 
kayoh190 said:
I'm a professional and take my responsibilities seriously. I follow the book, which clearly states that I'm to give myself at least 8 hours after raging with hookers and blow.

5 hours? Sheesh. Maybe at Southwest! :)
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:lol: Denzel Washington would be disappointed with you.
 
rbridges said:
:lol: Denzel Washington would be disappointed with you.
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Isn't the requirement to have 8 bottles while on the throttle and a minimum of .04BAC??? Or Have I been misinterpreting 91.17? Otherwise I don't know how I'd muster the nerve to execute a 200'/1,800RVR approach... :dunno:

Lol. :D
 
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