Commercial License - How Hard?

Difficulty of getting Commercial License Compared to getting Instrument?

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WDD

WDD

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Compared to getting an Instrument Rating, how hard is it overall (taking into account the amount of material, difficulty of material, and challenge of flight training)?

(Assume you've gotten an instrument rating to go with your PPL).
 
I know you want a nice canned, numerical answer, but as a CFI who has done numerous ones of each rating, I have to say it really varies. MOST people I think would say that the Commercial is way, way easier. It's all visual, it's kind of fun, etc. But SOME people really take to the precision of instrument flying, and when they lose those exact numbers to follow and have to rely more on "feel", they struggle.

But overall, yeah, Commercial is usually considered much easier than the Instrument, which is often described as the hardest rating, possibly except the CFI.

I will say, though, that the Power-off 180 really causes a lot of pressure on people. It's often the last thing on the checkride, and it's a make-or-break maneuver where if you start off poorly, there may be literally no way to recover.
 
Honestly the hardest part of the commercial is doing it soon after the instrument. You just spent 40+ hours learning how to fly solely inside the cockpit by the numbers, and now you have to go back to learning how to look outside and fly by feel.

Otherwise its a lot of private pilot maneuvers to a higher tolerance, and a few new maneuvers to expand the horizon of your abilities. Nothing about it is earth shattering.
 
RussR said:
I will say, though, that the Power-off 180 really causes a lot of pressure on people. It's often the last thing on the checkride, and it's a make-or-break maneuver where if you start off poorly, there may be literally no way to recover.
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The hardest part of the power-off 180 to me was that I wasn't taught to do an engine out landing the same way as a private student. As a private student I was taught, wrongfully in my opinion, to still try to square up the base leg. Once I started instructing, I taught the engine-out to landing maneuver to my students as a commercial power off 180 with a little more relaxed tolerances for touchdown. They honestly seem to pick it up a little easier, and I believe it will help them both in a real life scenario and in future commercial flying if they go that far.
 
It's basically like your private rating, to a higher standard. That and you now have to understand how/if you can be paid. I found it MUCH easier than the instrument rating. The power off 180s become really fun after a while. :)
 
I found the commercial maneuvers a bit harder than instrument approaches to nail down. Commercial was also an exhausting effort overall (141).
 
I found it to be really easy. As others have said, it's an extension of your private rating to be honest. Depending on what you fly the power off 180 can be a challenge. Some DPE's may give some wiggle room if you are in a hot plane. I found the written test to be extremely straight forward to the point of almost obvious. I scored a 100 on the commercial written, barely passed the instrument one haha.
 
If you can fly well and are able to do well on the oral it's easy, but like all ratings, it all depends on the DPE...
 
I have my instrument. Started commercial. the instrument written was easier IMO to digest and I did better on the test. The flying portion in the beginning was hard but got better with cockpit management.
I have only taken my written for commercial and working through the maneuvers. I have to say I thought the commercial written test was harder and I got more wrong. Seemed a bit more ambitious with the answers. Mentioned Earlier leering to fly with your head buried in the panel it’s hard to go back to flying mostly by outside visual reference. And I am struggling a bit with them but
Admittedly I have not been working as hard on it. This spring I hope to revisit
 
I just did mine back in October. It was much easier than the IR but still had to work at it. I was so used to flying cross countries that maneuvering took a bit to get everything in spec. Didn't take terribly long and was a WHOLE LOTTA FUN! It's a fun rating, just go do it! Power off 180's and chandelles were my favorite to do...oh and steep turns...it was a blast!
 
I loved instruments because I am a number and trends guy, not a seat of the pants and horizon guy.

PPL, my instructors always admonished me to look outside

IR, my instructors were pleased that i could juggle the needles somewhat intuitively and my learning was pretty darn linear

CPL, I struggled with certain of the maneuvers, eights on pylons particularly, because I didn't like looking outside to intuit a visual reference, which these maneuvers demand.

Chandelles were the only thing I liked in CPL. The rest I've never done myself again except teaching it as a CFI, scary as that is to contemplate. I try not to teach CPL/PPL, and stick to CFII work which I enjoy.

I still voted "3" though because IR needs a lot more knowledge to achieve, CPL was done in a weekend for me even as a visual-flying retard. If you're not a numbers guy and can look outside and rock a steep turn without looking at your instruments, CPL is probably going to be a 1 for you.

$0.02

- Mike
 
If flying is not your career or even your side hustle, what's the point of CPL?
 
I thought that Lazy 8s and power-off 180s took the most time. I practiced the later about 70 times in all sorts of wind conditions from none to 15kt crosswinds to 30kt down the runway. The Chandelles and eights-on-pylons were the easiest for me. I probably spent 20 hours total practicing, so 10 or 15 flights.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The numbers and trends still apply when you’re using he big horizon instead of the little one.
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I may have some sort of mental block where I can't look outside and have it correlate meaningfully with the instruments. Or it could possibly be because I've always trained in mountainous areas and "horizon" is sort of a vague and spiky concept, rather than a reference line.

Whichever it is, I suck at it. :D
 
The difficultly in the commercial depends on the students knowledge of and ability to apply basic aerodynamic principles.
 
asicer said:
If flying is not your career or even your side hustle, what's the point of CPL?
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Pursuit of further knowledge? Advance your skills?

I just might go ahead and do the CPL even though I have ZERO intentions of flying for money.
 
It’s one of the easier ratings. Just remember to look back outside if you got your instrument rating before. It’s a VFR check ride.
 
I’m actively working on mine though I have no plans to fly for money. Higher standards to fly to is my main motivation. And I’m in the sweet spot where if I get it now my multi & seaplane ratings can also be commercial without extra check rides.
 
asicer said:
If flying is not your career or even your side hustle, what's the point of CPL?
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Agree with the previous comments. For me, I enjoy learning more things, getting a little better, more proficient at flying, reduce the chance of bending metal. In addition, I might want to become a CFI to be able to teach in my retirement years, and Commercial is a prerequisite.
 
Easier and more fun. The only really hard thing for me was getting over my sloppy touchdown points and landing within standards. The in-air maneuvers were all easy once I learned how to get the plane to fly them for me. The power-off 180s were the biggest challenge, and on the check ride were made harder by a somewhat discombobulated tower controller who just couldn't quite fit me into the pattern, so we ended up flying several 360s and other spacing maneuvers immediately before pulling the power back.
 
I did multi commercial first. Loved the 60 degree bank steep turns.

Singe engine commercial was a blast, since I had already completed most of the commercial requirements in the twin.

Is steep spirals still one of the requirements for single engine commercial.??
 
Zeldman said:
I did multi commercial first. Loved the 60 degree bank steep turns.

Singe engine commercial was a blast, since I had already completed most of the commercial requirements in the twin.

Is steep spirals still one of the requirements for single engine commercial.??
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Yes. At least my CFI says so…
 
Zeldman said:
I did multi commercial first. Loved the 60 degree bank steep turns.

Singe engine commercial was a blast, since I had already completed most of the commercial requirements in the twin.

Is steep spirals still one of the requirements for single engine commercial.??
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Yes, "steep" spirals are still on there, but it's one of the "must do A or B" tasks, and at least in my experience, DPEs seem to pick the other option, though right now I forget what it is. 8's on pylons maybe?

Although I've always thought the name was quite a misnomer, there's no requirement for them to be steep, just that 60 degrees is the maximum bank. You could do them at 30 degrees if you want (and have enough altitude).
 
I remember my landings started to SUCK near the end of my instrument rating! You go missed on all the approaches and only actually land once per lesson. My commercial rating whipped that right back into shape once I remembered what it was like to actually look out the window.

My favorite thing the DPE said once I nailed the last landing (power off 180), "If you don't hit anything on the way back to the ramp, I'll make you a commercial pilot." Good sense of humor. :)
 
I'll honestly say it was my least favorite certificate to train and test for...at least from a maneuvers perspective. The maneuvers demonstrate power management and smooth operation of the aircraft. With a few exceptions, they generally don't have a practical purpose. IMO it would be like being tested in "pattern A" and "pattern B" for your instrument practical test.

Honestly I think the commercial would have been more meaningful in an aircraft with greater performance than the clapped out arrow I flew.
 
Brad Z said:
The maneuvers demonstrate power management and smooth operation of the aircraft. With a few exceptions, they generally don't have a practical purpose.
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Yeah exactly. Honestly, I think the commercial training standards could use a major overhaul.
 
Brad Z said:
I'll honestly say it was my least favorite certificate to train and test for...at least from a maneuvers perspective. The maneuvers demonstrate power management and smooth operation of the aircraft. With a few exceptions, they generally don't have a practical purpose.
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I see ATPs quite frequently who could use some brush up on the energy management skills of the Commercial ACS.
 
Brad Z said:
I'll honestly say it was my least favorite certificate to train and test for...at least from a maneuvers perspective. The maneuvers demonstrate power management and smooth operation of the aircraft. With a few exceptions, they generally don't have a practical purpose. IMO it would be like being tested in "pattern A" and "pattern B" for your instrument practical test.

Honestly I think the commercial would have been more meaningful in an aircraft with greater performance than the clapped out arrow I flew.
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Giving your paying passengers a smooth ride could be considered a practical purpose.
 
RussR said:
Yes, "steep" spirals are still on there, but it's one of the "must do A or B" tasks, and at least in my experience, DPEs seem to pick the other option, though right now I forget what it is. 8's on pylons maybe?
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It's either steep spiral or steep turns. 8's on pylons are always required.

I think the steep spiral is not popular because it's nearly impossible to see the selected point from the opposite side of the airplane. Also, while as you pointed out there is no minimum bank, if the bank is too shallow the altitude loss can get quite large rapidly. You're supposed to be able to complete at least three turns. You have to start pretty high regardless, which is another strike against performing them on a checkride where you're trying to make efficient use of time.
 
dmspilot said:
It's either steep spiral or steep turns. 8's on pylons are always required.

I think the steep spiral is not popular because it's nearly impossible to see the selected point from the opposite side of the airplane. Also, while as you pointed out there is no minimum bank, if the bank is too shallow the altitude loss can get quite large rapidly. You're supposed to be able to complete at least three turns. You have to start pretty high regardless, which is another strike against performing them on a checkride where you're trying to make efficient use of time.
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I did a steep spiral on my checkride. over walmart. and by 'over' I mean it started out over walmart. I kept saying "yup, there's walmart.....still over walmart....." but he couldn't see if I was over walmart or a lake.
 
Blue light special? o_O
eman1200 said:
I did a steep spiral on my checkride. over walmart. and by 'over' I mean it started out over walmart. I kept saying "yup, there's walmart.....still over walmart....." but he couldn't see if I was over walmart or a lake.
Click to expand...
 
RyanB said:
Yeah exactly. Honestly, I think the commercial training standards could use a major overhaul.
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The thing to realize is you are not getting tested on the commercial maneuvers to see how well you can do the maneuvers in the real world (other than being fun, Lazy-8s have no practical purpose). The maneuvers themselves are the test of your understanding and mastery of aircraft handling and aerodynamic forces. Notice how none of the commercial maneuvers are static, where you can hold the same control input throughout the maneuver and succeed. In order to do the maneuvers well, you will be constantly changing pitch and roll while managing yaw throughout the maneuver.
 
I'll let you know how the written compares tomorrow afternoon - I am scheduled to take it at 1:30 tomorrow. :D

Sheppard system got me 98 on the practice tests... we'll see. Scored a 100 on the IR written and a 98 on the private written. Hoping to ace it, but I'll take anything over 90.

Plan after the written is to go to an accelerated course and knock it out at some point before my BFR is due December 2022... Wish me luck...
 
Zeldman said:
I did multi commercial first. Loved the 60 degree bank steep turns.

Singe engine commercial was a blast, since I had already completed most of the commercial requirements in the twin.

Is steep spirals still one of the requirements for single engine commercial.??
Click to expand...
Not sure but I do know its normal for the examiner to ride in the airplane these days. So that is different since you obtained your certificate.
 
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