Comm pilot experience requirements - TAA definition

dell30rb

dell30rb

Final Approach
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Does anyone know if a 530W meets the definition of an MFD for the purposes of the commercial pilot experience requirements? We have an airplane with a G5, 2 axis AP, and a 530W

Comparing it to a GA MFD I have experience with, an Aspen:

The 530w's default nav modes include a map. The other pages are for viewing information, editing the flight plan, etc...

All of the default modes of an Aspen include a map as part of the display. However you can obscure the map by bringing up approach plates for far-away destinations, or going into the menus to set things. Pulling up weather information can temporarily obscure the map as well.

Thoughts?

(j) Technically advanced airplane. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, a technically advanced airplane must be equipped with an electronically advanced avionics system that includes the following installed components:

(1) An electronic Primary Flight Display (PFD) that includes, at a minimum, an airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator;

(2) An electronic Multifunction Display (MFD) that includes, at a minimum, a moving map using Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation with the aircraft position displayed;

(3) A two axis autopilot integrated with the navigation and heading guidance system; and

(4) The display elements described in paragraphs (j)(1) and (2) of this section must be continuously visible.
 
Wondering the same for my plane- have 2 axis AP and putting in Aspen, have GTN650. Would like to get my commercial for my own sense of accomplishment but not interested in spending a bunch of money learning to fly another plane just for a rating.
 
Just in general, I wouldn't call the 530W a MFD. I understand it can do mostly the same things, but it doesn't seem to meet the requirement under 4... continuously visible.
 
Yes, a Garmin GNS 530W meets the requirements of 14 CFR 61.129(j)(2), irrespective of the other requirements listed.
 
But does it meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.129(j)(4)?
 
I don't think of the 530W by itself as meeting the entire requirements for a TAA..

When I think of a TAA, I think glass panel aircraft w/autopilots.
 
ja_user said:
But does it meet the requirements of 14 CFR 61.129(j)(4)?
Click to expand...

Yes. Per 14 CFR 61.129(j)(2) it is an "electronic Multifunction Display (MFD) that includes, at a minimum, a moving map using Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation with the aircraft position displayed".

The MFD must be continually visible. The 530W is no different from nearly every other MFD out there in that various pages/views may be displayed on the MFD, and not all of them are moving map displays. It is understood that the MFD is per its description a "multifunction display," not a "uni-function display." Even a G1000 based airplane, with its very large PFD and MFD, can be adjusted so as not to display any moving map information. But no one wonders whether that avionics suite fits the TAA requirement. Bottom line is, so long as this MFD is continuously visible, it meets the provisions of (j)(4).

And for what it's worth, there are training fleets out there with many copies of aircraft with GPSs such as GNS430Ws/530Ws and KLN94s which serve as the basis for this part of the TAA requirement.

Couple common examples of TAA:

1) A brand new Cirrus SR series aircraft.
2) A brand new Cessna 172 series aircraft.
3) A retrofitted piston single or twin. My 54-year old Twin Comanche is a TAA thanks to its integrated autopilot (flies heading/nav with altitude hold), G5 PFD and Garmin GTN 650.
 
Caramon13 said:
I don't think of the 530W by itself as meeting the entire requirements for a TAA.
Click to expand...

A 530W alone does not make a TAA. The other requirements must also be met (PFD, a two axis autopilot integrated with the navigation and heading guidance system, etc.) It's contained within 14 CFR 61.129.
 
But it doesn't say the MFD must be continuously visible. It Says "The display elements described in paragraphs (j)(1) and (2) of this section must be continuously visible."

Whatever Display Elements mean....

I do agree with you that there are certainly examples of MFD's and brand new aircraft that most would agree qualify... But at best I think this reg is poorly worded for its intent.
They may have simply tried to avoid someone using the same piece of gear to satisfy 1 and 2? I'm not sure.
 
ja_user said:
But it doesn't say the MFD must be continuously visible. It Says "The display elements described in paragraphs (j)(1) and (2) of this section must be continuously visible."

Whatever Display Elements mean....

I do agree with you that there are certainly examples of MFD's and brand new aircraft that most would agree qualify... But at best I think this reg is poorly worded for its intent.
They may have simply tried to avoid someone using the same piece of gear to satisfy 1 and 2? I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

It may seem strangely worded, but it's written so as to be somewhat future-proofed against technological developments. An MFD is the display element described in (j)(2) and a PFD is the display element described in (j)(1).
 
ja_user said:
Just in general, I wouldn't call the 530W a MFD. I understand it can do mostly the same things, but it doesn't seem to meet the requirement under 4... continuously visible.
Click to expand...

Its not well worded... You can pull up pages on many common MFD's that will remove the moving map. Looking at information or an approach plate.

However a moving map is included on the default or main viewing mode of most MFD's. On a 530W, selecting "default nav" shows a moving map. And the next page over is another moving map.
 
Case in point... here are a few photos I've taken recently.

First, here's a G1000-based TAA with the MFD configured to view engine data. I think there would be zero argument that this airplane constitutes a TAA. Yet, there is no difference between the MFD pictured here and a GNS430/530 for the purpose of meeting the TAA requirement of 14 CFR 61.129(j).

da-20.jpg

Next, here's an Archer equipped with a G500 and dual GNS430Ws. This particular airplane is not a TAA because it does not feature a two-axis autopilot with heading/nav functionality, but there are many G500/GNS430 airplanes out there which do have one. The point to this picture is to show that this particular airplane has "3" MFDs... the G500's MFD and two GNS430s. Although I didn't take a photo of it, all of these screens may simultaneously be configured to views which do not include a moving map display. Clearly meets 14 CFR 61.129(j)(1) and (j)(2).

archer.jpg

Finally, my favorite, my Twin Comanche. PFD, check. MFD, check (GTN 650). Two axis integrated autopilot, check. TAA.

twinco.jpg

Hope that clears up any possible remaining confusion!
 
I have no clue about any regulations, but I will say this...
I fly an Airbus. We have an MFD that is capable of NOT always showing a flight path (although it usually dose)
Is the Airbus not an airplane that would qualify??
 
I understand your argument, I still think it is poorly worded reg though.

I believe an Airbus is TAA but not Complex :)
 
Does the 2-axis autopilot require that both axes be driven by the MFD? I have an old autocontrol IIIb single axis that is driven by nav/hdg but also a stand-alone STEC20 altitude hold. Thus I have 2-axes of AP but only heading/nav is connected to the PFD/MFD.
 
It is somewhat disturbing that one can now get a commercial without having been in a retractable gear aircraft.
 
Tokirbymd said:
Does the 2-axis autopilot require that both axes be driven by the MFD? I have an old autocontrol IIIb single axis that is driven by nav/hdg but also a stand-alone STEC20 altitude hold. Thus I have 2-axes of AP but only heading/nav is connected to the PFD/MFD.
Click to expand...
Typically the MFD and autopilot arent connected.
 
Tokirbymd said:
Does the 2-axis autopilot require that both axes be driven by the MFD? I have an old autocontrol IIIb single axis that is driven by nav/hdg but also a stand-alone STEC20 altitude hold. Thus I have 2-axes of AP but only heading/nav is connected to the PFD/MFD.
Click to expand...

it doesn’t matter what is driving the autopilot. 2 axis is all it states.
 
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