Combined checkride CPL/CFI

Rex Kwan Do

Rex Kwan Do

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Rex Kwan Do
Has anyone ever taken a combined rating checkride? A DPE suggested a CPL from the right seat plus the CFI flight tasks would effectively accomplish both the CPL and CFI rating, I’m just curious if anyone has ever done it.
 
If he is willing to do it, sure

CPL is mostly just a logbook audit and a few VFR maneuvers
 
Rex Kwan Do said:
Has anyone ever taken a combined rating checkride? A DPE suggested a CPL from the right seat plus the CFI flight tasks would effectively accomplish both the CPL and CFI rating, I’m just curious if anyone has ever done it.
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Unless there’s some special dispensation, a Commercial certificate is required to be eligible for a flight instructor certificate…it would have to be two separate orals and checkrides.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Unless there’s some special dispensation, a Commercial certificate is required to be eligible for a flight instructor certificate…it would have to be two separate orals and checkrides.
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Dual applications and a DPE with liberal time stamps?
 
I don’t see anything wrong with it. I did my Commercial Glider and CFI/Glider Add-on in a single check ride.

If you can pass the CFI, you can obviously pass the commercial. I am not aware of any guidance that says you can’t do both.

All it save you is scheduling two check-rides, but with the in-availability of examiners now, that might be big advantage. And might be why he suggested it.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I’ve heard of it, but know first (or even second) hand experience with it.
 
You won’t want to do both in the same day, and almost certainly can’t. The oral alone for the CFI is gonna be at least 5-6 hours.
 
Rex Kwan Do said:
Has anyone ever taken a combined rating checkride? A DPE suggested a CPL from the right seat plus the CFI flight tasks would effectively accomplish both the CPL and CFI rating, I’m just curious if anyone has ever done it.
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I'm going to assume that the DPE was insinuating that you could do the training concurrently. There is no way to combine the two practical tests. You would be required to complete the flight instructor test after passing the commercial practical test.

The day is not long enough to cover all of the areas of both testing events.
 
Pinecone said:
Where does it say this?
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61.183

To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:

(a) Be at least 18 years of age;

(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's flight instructor certificate as are necessary;

(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:
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Bonchie said:
You won’t want to do both in the same day, and almost certainly can’t. The oral alone for the CFI is gonna be at least 5-6 hours.
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The oral for my CFI was 90 minutes tops. If it's going 5-6, there's probably an underlying reason. Of course I probably approached the oral differently than anyone else here.
 
When did you get your CFI Ed?

From memory the current requirement is two FOI areas, three technical subject areas, and a lesson on a maneuver. Impressive to knock that all out in less than a couple-three hours minimum.

My CFI oral exams usually end up 5-6 hours start to finish but that includes a break or two in the morning and one for lunch. I don't get in a hurry and am mostly happy to just let the applicant keep talking...
 
EdFred said:
The oral for my CFI was 90 minutes tops. If it's going 5-6, there's probably an underlying reason. Of course I probably approached the oral differently than anyone else here.
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How did you approach it?
 
Bonchie said:
You won’t want to do both in the same day, and almost certainly can’t. The oral alone for the CFI is gonna be at least 5-6 hours.
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Not all. I realize my experience is probably not typical, but my CFI oral only lasted about 2 hours. The flight was about 1.5. About 10 years ago, with the FSDO.
 
I think any oral lasting over 2 hours is overkill. The examiner probably knows within 30 minutes if the applicant is prepared for the test or not.

I got my CFI in the mid 80’s, with the FAA, and I do not think the oral was over an hour.
 
tonycondon said:
When did you get your CFI Ed?

From memory the current requirement is two FOI areas, three technical subject areas, and a lesson on a maneuver. Impressive to knock that all out in less than a couple-three hours minimum.

My CFI oral exams usually end up 5-6 hours start to finish but that includes a break or two in the morning and one for lunch. I don't get in a hurry and am mostly happy to just let the applicant keep talking...
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Seems to me that a well-prepared applicant could easily work a lot of those areas into the maneuver lesson. For example, a lesson on stalls (which was the one I had to do) can touch on flight controls, aerodynamics, stability, weight and balance, heck even collision avoidance. During my stall lesson, the ASI at some point just said "okay, that's enough, good job, let's move on".

If you are well enough prepared, then the ASI/DPE should know really quickly if you know your stuff. I see no reason that the examiner shouldn't stop the sample lesson once they see enough. There's no benefit to letting the applicant do the whole presentation, nothing is actually being taught after all. It's not a theater presentation where good manners require the examiner to watch the whole thing.
 
Plano Pilot said:
I got my CFI in the mid 80’s, with the FAA, and I do not think the oral was over an hour.
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Was that before or after the FAA mandated that all initial CFI rides be conducted by an FAA inspector?

I know it wasn’t too much before I did mine in 1988…unfortunately there were no feds in the region qualified to give me mine, so I got special dispensation. ;)
 
tonycondon said:
When did you get your CFI Ed?

From memory the current requirement is two FOI areas, three technical subject areas, and a lesson on a maneuver. Impressive to knock that all out in less than a couple-three hours minimum.

My CFI oral exams usually end up 5-6 hours start to finish but that includes a break or two in the morning and one for lunch. I don't get in a hurry and am mostly happy to just let the applicant keep talking...
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Fall 2006.

luvflyin said:
How did you approach it?
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Opened with the FOI being outdated and worthless piece of crap. Think I even tossed in on the table when I said it. Said we can talk about it and dig into it, but I'd been giving golf lessons for a bunch of years, had been teaching martial arts for the past 6, and if I tried to implement the FAA's brainchild REEPIR, I would have lost those students. Said it needs to be replaced because (used some colorful analogy about it's lack of worth). I explained how I approached things with the the golf and MA students prior to my CFI and this is how I would proceed with the flight students. I think we talked about the power plant and maybe the fuel system and I did my my lesson on 8's-pylons. After the lesson he said "you can obviously teach" and said he was going to hit the head and if I could answer the question of "a commercial rated helo pilot is coming back from Iraq. He has 0 fixed wing time, what does he need to do to get his C-SEL?" I would pass the oral and we would go flying. I had the FAR/AIM opened to the correct page before he left the room. Came back, started to explain what was needed, and he cut me off and said lets go fly.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Was that before or after the FAA mandated that all initial CFI rides be conducted by an FAA inspector?

I know it wasn’t too much before I did mine in 1988…unfortunately there were no feds in the region qualified to give me mine, so I got special dispensation. ;)
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Not sure, DAL FSDO was close and easy to work with, so I did several of my rides with them. After looking at my logbook, I did the CFI in 1981 with the HNL FSDO, CFII 1983 with DAL FSDO.

In 1985, I combined my ATP, CE-500 type, CE-500 pic 135 and CFIMEI in one ride with the DAL FSDO. In 2008 I got my CFI reinstated, it had expired, with the same Fed in a C340. I taught the Fed how to do LPV approaches.
 
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Sounds dicey.

He'd have to enter the "Application Active - we're doing the test for Commercial", approve you for commercial at the end of the day after the dual orals and practicals, a minute later enter "Application Active - doing the test for CFI", and then a minute later approve you for CFI. That might raise flags.

What happens if you need to re do the commercial? Will the CFI postdate your CFI checkride and oral exam?
 
RussR said:
Not all. I realize my experience is probably not typical, but my CFI oral only lasted about 2 hours. The flight was about 1.5. About 10 years ago, with the FSDO.
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That’s pretty unusual these days. The shift to DPEs doing them has led to longer orals. Mine was around four hours. I’ve been 5-6 is typical with breaks (the DPE above seems to agree). I’ve also known guys who went 7-8 hours and had to fly the next day.

But I’ll agree on the flight time. The flying is dead simple as long as you talk. Easiest part. Same for the CFII.
 
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