Coldest temp to fly in

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

Here’s from a flight school about 24 miles WSW of you. Owner (who is the A&P AI) told me he was concerned about shock cooling and things, generally, breaking at colder temperatures partially due to people rushing/not paying attention.

He also mentioned the safety factor of landing off airport in those temps. I see some validity to it (although if you owned your own Arrow, you make your own rules )

No T&Gs below 30. No closed throttle ops below 25. No student solo below 15 and no flight period below 10.

 

[Wagondriver]

I've flown down to -26F. It was cold enough that the coolant in the overflow bottle had ice crystals in it. That was in my Hawk Arrow II, with no heater, but water cooled engine.
I have flown my 180 down to about -10.

 

[NoHeat]

I've flown down to -26F. It was cold enough that the coolant in the overflow bottle had ice crystals in it. That was in my Hawk Arrow II, with no heater, but water cooled engine.

Brrr! An ultralight with no heat, at -26F. That sounds downright cruel.

So what happens to the water-cooled engine when the coolant freezes?

 

[Daleandee]

So what happens to the water-cooled engine when the coolant freezes?

It becomes an air cooled engine ...

 

[SkyChaser]

Here’s from a flight school about 24 miles WSW of you. Owner (who is the A&P AI) told me he was concerned about shock cooling and things, generally, breaking at colder temperatures partially due to people rushing/not paying attention.

He also mentioned the safety factor of landing off airport in those temps. I see some validity to it (although if you owned your own Arrow, you make your own rules )

No T&Gs below 30. No closed throttle ops below 25. No student solo below 15 and no flight period below 10.

This boggles my mind. Airplanes must have picked up some Northern cold-hardiness where I trained, because we did touch n goes all the time in the 0F-30F range, and the airplane didn't seem to care. 25F was an "operate as usual" day, but often those days came after days below zero, so it felt warm. Nothing plastic (or any other material) broke on the plane while I was training. Of course that's only a one-winter casestudy, though. And the owner of the airplane I flew was an A&P/IA, but he'd lived in Northern MN and spent some time in Alaska, I believe, so he'd had experience with airplanes and actual cold weather before. I wonder if planes can "get used to" certain temperature ranges like people do and that's why some planes seem to be hardier than others...

 

[Wagondriver]

If people in the northern climates did not fly below 30 degrees, there wouldn't be many flying days in the year.

 

[midwestpa24]

This boggles my mind. Airplanes must have picked up some Northern cold-hardiness where I trained, because we did touch n goes all the time in the 0F-30F range, and the airplane didn't seem to care. 25F was an "operate as usual" day, but often those days came after days below zero, so it felt warm. Nothing plastic (or any other material) broke on the plane while I was training. Of course that's only a one-winter casestudy, though. And the owner of the airplane I flew was an A&P/IA, but he'd lived in Northern MN and spent some time in Alaska, I believe, so he'd had experience with airplanes and actual cold weather before. I wonder if planes can "get used to" certain temperature ranges like people do and that's why some planes seem to be hardier than others...

I won't say it can't be done. I would be curious, if it was possible, to do a side-by-side comparison of an aircraft regularly flown below 0F to one that lived in a more moderate climate. See if there was any higher incidence in mechanical or even cosmetic break down. Granted a more southern climate has its own factors as well, such as humidity, UV, and possible salt water corrosion if near a coast line.

 

[SkyChaser]

I won't say it can't be done. I would be curious, if it was possible, to do a side-by-side comparison of an aircraft regularly flown below 0F to one that lived in a more moderate climate. See if there was any higher incidence in mechanical or even cosmetic break down. Granted a more southern climate has its own factors as well, such as humidity, UV, and possible salt water corrosion if near a coast line.

That would be fascinating! Maybe the plane I flew was just incredibly well-maintained, but over the year I flew it, the only problem the plane had that wasn't student-induced was the fuel cap rubber seal cracking. The only other problem was when a different student didn't lock the primer all the way in so the engine was behaving a little funky, which obviously went away once the primer was locked in. It would be really interesting to see that study, though!

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

Obviously, @SkyChaser , that fuel filler gasket wouldn’t have cracked if it was sitting in the hangar at -30f vs getting refilled after your touch & goes!!!

(ETA - ^^^ I’m joking there - I’m learning as I go here. Cold WX restrictions made sense on the front end. They are very well maintained planes. Maybe it is overkill. I don’t know.)

I’m not that interested in flying around in -10 so the restrictions have only bugged me a handful of times. But renting, in general, is proving to be a hurdle. Having a plane available, when I’m available, and it doesn’t go down for mx and WX cooperates is . . . Not working very well in any temperature for me right now.

 

[KaiGywer]

These airplane fly in much colder weather than that. I can't think of a reason why cold air would be hard on the engine, as long as it is kept warm in a hangar prior to start. The biggest question is, if you have to make an emergency landing, will you be able to survive the cold until help comes?

Certainly make sure you consider the survival aspect to the occupants. As I said in the other post, "A survivable off-airport landing can quickly become a life and death scenario if help doesn't get to you soon enough."

Over the last couple of weeks I've scrubbed pleasure flights due to the cold. As many have said, preflighting in -10 sucks. I also vividly remember one dark winter night at -30 where a young dumb pilot (yeah, me) decided it would be a good idea to go fly. After landing in KRUG and heading back home, we back taxied on the runway just fine, and upon turning a 180 had a flat nose wheel tire. That was a very long, very cold walk back to the FBO shack on a Saturday night at 11pm. Did the tire pop because of the cold, who knows... The mechanic found a small hole in the tube, but nothing in the tire that would have caused said hole.

So now I limit my flying to what *I* am comfortable in since the plane loves it.

 

[Skip Miller]

I know airliners are not bugsmashers but the Part 121 planes fly in temps below minus 50 *F routinely. They are certified for that use.

Check the certification standards for your bugsmasher.

-Skip

 

[SkyChaser]

Obviously, @SkyChaser , that fuel filler gasket wouldn’t have cracked if it was sitting in the hangar at -30f vs getting refilled after your touch & goes!!!

(ETA - ^^^ I’m joking there - I’m learning as I go here. Cold WX restrictions made sense on the front end. They are very well maintained planes. Maybe it is overkill. I don’t know.)

Yeah, who knows. But the gasket cracked when it was July or August, and the temps during the day were in high 90s... The reality was, it was just wear and tear and the gasket hadn't been replaced for years and years.

Refueling in those frigid temps was brutal, though, and I never even had to try it when the temps were lower than a windy -5F. I have a theory that the colder the temps are that the owner is used to, the colder they allow their plane to fly. If you are used to a winter where it stays around or below 10-15F for weeks on end, you're not going to say it's too cold to fly because that's just winter. If you are used to it staying around 30F, you're going to think that is way too cold when it gets down to those temps.

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

@SkyChaser agreed.

Interesting, to me, is that 0-10 degrees isn’t unusual around here in Jan/Feb.

Sustained highs of 0 is less usual, but single digit daytime temps is pretty normal here.

But, for me, I’m a renter. I follow their rules. I’ll give it more thought when I actually have a say.

 

[Kenny Taylor]

In motorcycling, we say, "there's no such thing as too cold, but simply improperly equipped."

My record on the bike was 60 mph or so @ 25-30 F every morning for a about a month when I was younger and the car broke down. Cold enough that I looked up wind chill and frostbite to figure out if I could safely ignore what my fingers were telling me through the gloves.

 

[midwestpa24]

I know airliners are not bugsmashers but the Part 121 planes fly in temps below minus 50 *F routinely. They are certified for that use.

Check the certification standards for your bugsmasher.

-Skip

During this recent cold snap, we had 121 carriers cancel due to temps below -20F and windchills of -35F. Big part of the problem was the impact to ground crew, and difficulty with ground equipment operating in those temperatures.

 

[flyingron]

It was under 20 when I picked up the Navion the first time in Wisconsin. The instructor I had along to help ferry it pulled the heat control out and it got warm so he says grab us a gallon of hydaulic fluid and lets get out of here.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Yeah, who knows. But the gasket cracked when it was July or August, and the temps during the day were in high 90s... The reality was, it was just wear and tear and the gasket hadn't been replaced for years and years.

Those gaskets suffer hardening from ozone in the atmosphere attacking their outer edges, and the fuel gradually leaches the flexible polymers out of them from the inside. It's worse out in the sun, heat, rain, everything. They are supposed to be checked at annuals, of course, like everything else.

I once lost half a tank of fuel in a Citabria we had just bought. I stopped to fuel when I saw the gauges going down so fast. It was a split gasket. The low pressure atop the wing sucked at the leaky cap, pulling the air out of it and causing the fuel from the other side to flow through the system and into that low-pressure tank and out the cap past that gasket. The Citabria only has a fuel shutoff valve; the tanks tee together upstream of it, so crossflow is possible. The same thing happens to most high-wing airplanes if they have just a shutoff, or if they have a Both position on the selector. The suction can be bad enough to hold the fuel back from the engine once the emptying tank is dry.

 

[Perezhr]

It’s really all a matter of perspective. Here in Florida it was 40 F last weekend and I decided not to fly because I was enjoying the warmth of my home. This coming weekend will be the coldest day of the year with low of 26F and I’m pretty sure we will declare a state-wide emergency and call out he national guard


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[Clip4]

It’s cold here in Chicago. We have a high of 10 degrees today going to -5 tonight. How cold can you fly in? I talked to my instructor who canceled all lessons and rentals for today but the planes are kept in the heated hangar. So what temp can you fly in without causing issues to the engine? Yes I know no one wants to be outside in the cold but if your plane is in a heated hangar and you take it out, start it, do some local practice, come back without stopping the engine elsewhere, is that bad for the engine or perfectly alright?

Opening and closing a heated hangar twice when the outside temperature is 10° is going to take a lot of fuel to bring it back to temperature.

 

[Gary Ward]

It was between 10-15°f yesterday when I took these pictures, not bad inside the plane. Had enough heat.

In another week when the ice get's thicker I will be able to land at the seaport that is on this lake!

Landing at about 0°f the other night, it get's real cold in the plane when you pull the power to land.

 

[rwellner98]

0F yesterday

 

[mandm]

Nice skis!

I went flying again yesterday, my personal threshold is about 20 degrees F. I don’t really like to be outside when it’s much colder. I haven’t done any touch and goes on the plane yet. The only time I slow the throttle is on approaching the airport, and when flying at night trying to find the airport haha.

 

[rwellner98]

Warm one yesterday, almost 20f. Decided to have a picnic. Made sausage ravioli in alfredo sauce.