Cockpit space in Tomahawk, Skipper, & Yankee?

[FlyingElvii]

I'm kind of in the same position as the OP so this is a good thread for me.

Sport cruiser guys, how do you like those? Real world cruise speed? And I had heard that company went through a few reorgs and all that so that parts availability for the older models (especially Piper sports) and authorizations for avionics without re-classing to ELSA were the infamous unobtainium, any truth to that or just hangar BS?

Mostly BS...
You can still get parts fairly easily. Skywest/FLT Academy in SLC is the US Cruiser distributor now, and they really know their stuff. If they don't have it on hand, they can "Locally" source most things for you, if needed. Most everything they built it with is off-the-shelf used on others, including Rotax, except for airframe itself.

Cruiser in the Czech Republic has been hit hard by the sanctions just like everyone else, so the lag time to get things can be long, a problem nearly everyone in aviation is having right now.

Getting change authorizations from Cruiser for anything has always been a pain. They are very liability averse.
For instance, they only one ADSB solution, from Garmin.

 

[schmookeeg]

I'm seeing 93kt cruise for the sport cruiser? And we're throwing shade on sundowners for being slow? Am I looking at the right thing?

 

[Grum.Man]

My AA1 would true out to about 108kts with no wheel pants. My fastback 150 would do about 95 kts. My dad's late model 150 seems to settle in around 90 kts the little bit I've flown it.

 

[Half Fast]

I'm seeing 93kt cruise for the sport cruiser? And we're throwing shade on sundowners for being slow? Am I looking at the right thing?

Yeah, it’s hard for the baby Beeches to shake that label. The numbers for my 1969 B23, with a 180hp O-360, are almost the same as for a Cherokee 180 but nobody rails about how slow the Cherokees are.

Flying home from St Simons a few weeks ago, I had full tanks, my wife on board, plus luggage, and at 6500’ my Mouse trued out at 120 knots. With half tanks, me flying solo, and no luggage except ballast to move the CG aftward, it’ll true about 123.

The book numbers I’ve seen for a Cherokee 180 put its cruise at 124 knots TAS.

 

[FlyingElvii]

I'm seeing 93kt cruise for the sport cruiser? And we're throwing shade on sundowners for being slow? Am I looking at the right thing?

Lol…
at 4800 RPM maybe….
At Cruise pitch, stable air, 5700RPM and low weight I usually see 103-108 at 3500 ft. with the pants on, on a cool day. The Sensenich helps. That was nearly identical to what the Sundowner delivered.My usual takeoff weight is well below gross with just myself aboard.

A Rotax is more efficient at the top of the arc.
It isn’t real fast, but it flys and looks damn good doing it.

If you want a “Fast” light sport, get a Jabiru.

 

[schmookeeg]

Lol…
at 4800 RPM maybe….
At Cruise pitch, stable air, 5700RPM and low weight I usually see 103-108 at 3500 ft. with the pants on, on a cool day. The Sensenich helps. That was nearly identical to what the Sundowner delivered.My usual takeoff weight is well below gross with just myself aboard.

A Rotax is more efficient at the top of the arc.
It isn’t real fast, but it flys and looks damn good doing it.

If you want a “Fast” light sport, get a Jabiru.

Congrats on beating the company's website numbers by 15kts. Don't hear of that happening very often

 

[FlyingElvii]

Congrats on beating the company's website numbers by 15kts. Don't hear of that happening very often

The newer ones are heavier, the older ones like mine are lighter and faster.

Those are my POH numbers

 

[Pinecone]

I have an AA1A.

It is indeed underpowered (with the standard O320) but is an absolute blast to fly. Very light controls.

Standard engine is O-235. STC upgrade to O-320. But never came with O-320 from the factory.

 

[Pinecone]

The original configuration of the Tomahawk was stall strips near the tip only. Made for brisk stall that could easily turn into a spin.

Later they added inboard stall strips and toned down the stall. Not sure if there was a AD or just an SB to retrofit the early airplanes.

 

[jbarrass]

Standard engine is O-235. STC upgrade to O-320. But never came with O-320 from the factory.

Oops, correct, I'll fix my post. I have a donor O320 I may put in and have it on the brain....

 

[Jim_R]

A lot pilots called the Tomahawk a Taumahawk. I flew it with an open mind. It was fun to spin at a safe altitude, as long as you didn’t look at the tail. It had tendency to shake a little. The only negative compared to the 150/152 was the cockpit was a greenhouse in the summer, I taught in Florida.

I hear that nickname repeated by way more people who've never flown a Tomahawk than from pilots who have. It's a tired old cliche. The plane was intentionally designed to be spinnable for training reasons, but it doesn't just randomly go into a spin if you don't put it into one.

 

[DMD3.]

I hear that nickname repeated by way more people who've never flown a Tomahawk than from pilots who have. It's a tired old cliche. The plane was intentionally designed to be spinnable for training reasons, but it doesn't just randomly go into a spin if you don't put it into one.

If I ever got to fly one and do some spin training, I could request flight following and use “Traumahawk“ in my call-sign. I wonder how ATC would react.

 

[Sundancer]

I'm 6', 225. . .the 150 is awful for room and visibility. I've looked at a couple light sport - generally a little better, but still jammed. I have time in a Tomahawk and that was by far the best fit.

 

[Daleandee]

At Cruise pitch, stable air, 5700RPM and low weight I usually see 103-108 at 3500 ft.

Isn't the Rotax recommended cruise RPM lower than that? I thought 5200 was the top of the cruise range ...

 

[Grum.Man]

Isn't the Rotax recommended cruise RPM lower than that? I thought 5200 was the top of the cruise range ...

According to the manual engine speeds over 5500 are limited to 5 minutes, 5800 for one minute. 75% power cruise is 5k SL STD conditions.

 

[Daleandee]

According to the manual engine speeds over 5500 are limited to 5 minutes, 5800 for one minute. 75% power cruise is 5k.

That's my understanding also so I thought I'd ask the question. Maybe he knows something I don't but the conversation was about cruise speeds (see post # 45) ...

 

[T Bird]

Skipper is very spacious for a 2 seater. At 6'1 ~190 I'm comfortable in it, with room to spare. Very affordable little plane and I would recommend it to people wanting to get in the air cheap. Will not fit most missions though, being slower than traffic on the ground and without much range/payload capabilities.

 

[Iflydogs]

I have flown a Tomahawk for 5 months shy of 30 years, roughly 3600 hours on the tach, all around the country. It cruises at 100 knots and will stay flying 5 hours, but I usually do 3.5 hour legs. Very stable, 6 gph. 350 pounds payload with full tanks—this was achieved the Lindbergh way, by stripping out all the plastic, upholstery, and insulation in the interior, bare aluminum. Nice ship and much prettier than standard stuff on the ramp these days, except the Diamonds and Cirruses which are also nice looking. Used to be able to buy then cheap but none available recently.

 

[Todd82]

I have flown a Tomahawk for 5 months shy of 30 years, roughly 3600 hours on the tach, all around the country. It cruises at 100 knots and will stay flying 5 hours, but I usually do 3.5 hour legs. Very stable, 6 gph. 350 pounds payload with full tanks—this was achieved the Lindbergh way, by stripping out all the plastic, upholstery, and insulation in the interior, bare aluminum. Nice ship and much prettier than standard stuff on the ramp these days, except the Diamonds and Cirruses which are also nice looking. Used to be able to buy then cheap but none available recently.

One just showed up on TAP right up the street from my mom's here for Thanksgiving at KVVS, I was going to take a look but it's not participating in "buy them cheap" unfortunately.