cockpit management

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kujo806

Pre-takeoff checklist
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kujo806
I just started my IFR training, and my biggest concern is the cockpit management aspect. I am flying in a very basic Warrior with a 430 and no AP / electric trim, etc. I have a RAM yoke mount for the iPad, but can't really use that as it covers the 6 pack.

I'm curious what others do about the iPad or charts and taking notes during flight. If I keep it in my lap, I will probably hand fly all over the place while playing with the iPad.

Do you recommend a specific iPad mount or knee board? Maybe this is a stupid question, but things feel pretty overwhelming right now.
 
I am actually in the same boat, I am starting IFR end of this year or next year, depends on 2020, but I have a similar configuration. No AP and an iPad to position for added awareness...
 
iPad mini doesn't cover much. I have one mounted on my yoke and I can see everything pretty well.
 
Ditch the tablet as a nav device. You already have what you need in the panel.
 
Excuse my messy desk, but this is the contraption I use in the pa-28s i fly:
20200902_092707.jpg
It does obscure the fuel gauges and the triple gauge, but I can peek around the side pretty easily to check them, and I can see the whole six pack. The trick is getting it down between the horns of the yoke. I use an 8" tablet, and all bets are off if you have something bigger. It's a ram x-mount, two short clamps, a short dog bone, and the small tough claw mount. I VERY much like having the approach plate up close to the panel and not having to look down in my lap. I also use a basic kneeboard to write clearances, notes, figure fuel etc, hold my navlog and checklist.
 
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182

Yoke mount mini iPad, for ForeFlight, charts, and IFD-100.

Kneeboard for paper and pen (ATIS, clearance, etc).

Another iPad “free-floating” for charts, plates, ForeFlight, IFD-100, plus paper. I keep it on the floor, or on my other knee. (My air-vent blows my paper around when I am sweating under foggles and CFI-I flogging...)
 
I have been using a yoke mount in almost every make/model I've flown, including Pipers. With a full size, I flew with it in landscape mode. With a Mini, usually portrait. For those few I don't, it's a suction mount on a window to my left. Other than an airplane with no yoke, the only one out of about 30 types of singles I've had a blocking issue with has been the Archer III. The thicker yoke makes placement more problematic. Still working on it,

for note taking, although I did it in the tablet for a while, I discovered that, for me anyway, paper was far more efficient. I like a small kneeboard for stability, but I can do fine with just a hard-backed notebook.
 
kujo806 said:
I just started my IFR training, and my biggest concern is the cockpit management aspect. I am flying in a very basic Warrior with a 430 and no AP / electric trim, etc. I have a RAM yoke mount for the iPad, but can't really use that as it covers the 6 pack.

I'm curious what others do about the iPad or charts and taking notes during flight. If I keep it in my lap, I will probably hand fly all over the place while playing with the iPad.

Do you recommend a specific iPad mount or knee board? Maybe this is a stupid question, but things feel pretty overwhelming right now.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the larger iPad. My iPad mini is on a ram mount on the yoke. Covers a bit of the heading indicator, but I can see most of it without any problem. I replaced the AI with a G5, so I've got redundancy.

As for being overwhelmed - yep. It's a learning experience, same as when you started to learn to fly.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I have been using a yoke mount in almost every make/model I've flown, including Pipers. With a full size, I flew with it in landscape mode. With a Mini, usually portrait. For those few I don't, it's a suction mount on a window to my left. Other than an airplane with no yoke, the only one out of about 30 types of singles I've had a blocking issue with has been the Archer III. The thicker yoke makes placement more problematic. Still working on it,

for note taking, although I did it in the tablet for a while, I discovered that, for me anyway, paper was far more efficient. I like a small kneeboard for stability, but I can do fine with just a hard-backed notebook.
Click to expand...
FWIW...I fly an Archer III, and the rig I posted fits nicely, 8" tablet in portrait orientation. Also works in the Dakota & Warrior with the older style yokes.
 
Jim K said:
FWIW...I fly an Archer III, and the rig I posted fits nicely, 8" tablet in portrait orientation. Also works in the Dakota & Warrior with the older style yokes.
Click to expand...
Thanks. No problem with any of the older models but yeah, between the horns on the III is my issue. I'm in the process of trying multiple configurations. Just got one of the smaller double-socket arms for a suction mount for a DA40 and it helped a lot. Haven't had a chance to try it to see if I can tweak something acceptable for the Archer.
 
murphey said:
Sounds like the larger iPad. My iPad mini is on a ram mount on the yoke. Covers a bit of the heading indicator, but I can see most of it without any problem. I replaced the AI with a G5, so I've got redundancy.

As for being overwhelmed - yep. It's a learning experience, same as when you started to learn to fly.
Click to expand...

I do have the iPad mini. I think the issue may be that I need more arm extensions to get it lower on the yoke. Currently it comes up from the yoke and then just tilts toward me. Another arm section would get it in front of the yoke and lower based on what I am seeing/hearing here. I will look into that.
 
EdFred said:
Ditch the tablet as a nav device. You already have what you need in the panel.
Click to expand...

This. For training, I used an iPad (FF) for flight planning and charts. For the checkride I didn't even use it for charts. It was my experience that the 430 is much easier to operate while handflying than a tablet.
 
kujo806 said:
I do have the iPad mini. I think the issue may be that I need more arm extensions to get it lower on the yoke. Currently it comes up from the yoke and then just tilts toward me. Another arm section would get it in front of the yoke and lower based on what I am seeing/hearing here. I will look into that.
Click to expand...
There are a couple of things you can do. For example, instead of passing the mount arm over the centerpiece of the yoke, bring it between the centerpiece and a horn, so it an be lower. Another is the choice of mount. I use the Tab-Tite. One end is fixes, the other is the spring. So turning is so the spring opens downward means less tablet above the yoke.
 
kujo806 said:
I do have the iPad mini. I think the issue may be that I need more arm extensions to get it lower on the yoke. Currently it comes up from the yoke and then just tilts toward me. Another arm section would get it in front of the yoke and lower based on what I am seeing/hearing here. I will look into that.
Click to expand...
Yep. the second section solves many problems. I'm only using a single arm between the X mount holding the iPad and the clamp on the yoke tube (?), not the black yoke itself. Won't be out to the hangar until this weekend, but will try to remember to take a photo.
 
I can't comment on yoke mounts since it's been over thirty years since I've flown a plane with a yoke... I have my tablet (8" android running Avare) on a homemade kneeboard.
 
When you were doing your initial training, you probably realized that you were most comfortable with certain gizmos as part of your cockpit management...and you may have tried a number of different things.

It can be pretty much the same with instrument flying. Some things you will feel comfortable with, some other gizmos not so much. It's part of the fun of learning instrument flying.
 
kujo806 said:
I just started my IFR training, and my biggest concern is the cockpit management aspect. I am flying in a very basic Warrior with a 430 and no AP / electric trim, etc. I have a RAM yoke mount for the iPad, but can't really use that as it covers the 6 pack.

I'm curious what others do about the iPad or charts and taking notes during flight. If I keep it in my lap, I will probably hand fly all over the place while playing with the iPad.

Do you recommend a specific iPad mount or knee board? Maybe this is a stupid question, but things feel pretty overwhelming right now.
Click to expand...
I got a ram yoke mount and found it annoying.. used it maybe half a dozen times.

I keep the kneedboard with blank paper on the left knee and the ipad in a thick rubbery case on my right leg.. or anywhere really. You can take notes on Foreflight on the plates, etc.

And like the other person said. Trim the plane well.. and between the kneedboard paper and the ipad you should be good. You really shouldn't be watching your track on the ipad anyway.. too many people stare at the little plane going down the track instead of actually using the cockpit
 
I hate having stuff on the yoke. Everything sits on the right seat for me. If there's someone in the right seat, "here, hold this."
 
flyingron said:
I hate having stuff on the yoke. Everything sits on the right seat for me. If there's someone in the right seat, "here, hold this."
Click to expand...
I think we all have our preferences. IFR, I use a tablet yoke mount for pretty much the same reason I used a yoke clip in the paper days. I like the approach plate line of sight. Other than that, I really don't care where it is. My portable mount setup often doesn't leave the trunk of my car.
 
I'm thinking about recutting my panel to make space to "mount" a tablet on the panel. I hate moving my head up and down up and down while on instruments. Induces SD.
 
I use a yoke mounted tablet in our Arrow. Find a way to mount it low so you can see the guages.
 
I've just not found a yoke clip even for a plate that works well in the Navion. Usuaully, I've got the plates up on the MX20 anyhow
 
Ipad mini with a Ram yoke mount in my Archer. IFR, approach plates are on the iPad, notes on a paper kneepad, everything else doing what it's supposed to do. Nothing obstructed by the ipad.
 
kujo806 said:
I just started my IFR training, and my biggest concern is the cockpit management aspect. I am flying in a very basic Warrior with a 430 and no AP / electric trim, etc. I have a RAM yoke mount for the iPad, but can't really use that as it covers the 6 pack.

I'm curious what others do about the iPad or charts and taking notes during flight. If I keep it in my lap, I will probably hand fly all over the place while playing with the iPad.

Do you recommend a specific iPad mount or knee board? Maybe this is a stupid question, but things feel pretty overwhelming right now.
Click to expand...

I find the RAM mounts to be way too big and hefty, as if they are designed to hold a heavy object. I was never happy with any of the mounts, so I made my own by 3D printing a clip that mounts the tablet to the face of the yoke. Its small enough that it doesn't block the panel too much.

IMG_20181030_085541042_HDR.jpg
 
Before anyone accuses me of being a Luddite, I want to share that I do own a software company, and there’s no bigger fan of ForeFlight than me.

Still, when I did my instrument rating, I tried being totally iPad-centric, but it was hard. In turbulence under the Foggles, by the time I navigated through the app and got whatever info I needed, my instructor would be tapping his little pencil on the altimeter because I drifted a hundred feet off altitude.

After a few hours like this, I tried some other ways. Believe it or not, for me the most efficient idea was...printed charts on a clipboard. With a little thought, I could plan the flight on ForeFlight, and print all the charts I might need, from airport diagrams to approach plates. It might be my old eyes, but by printing things like the approach plates a little bigger, I spent less time searching for information. In fact, you get pretty good at arranging the various chart pages such that you’re just pulling one page off the stack and the next one you need follows. And the little clipboard fits anywhere.

The extent of my equipment then was an 8x10 acrylic clipboard that I drilled a hole through so I could tie a pen to it. Yes, I had the iPad (and the iPhone) in case I needed a chart I didn’t think to print before the flight, but at least for me, the old fashioned way seemed to work best.
 
Get a real airplane with a stick; they are much easier to maintain correct attitude. You won't get a tired arm from having to hold your hand suspended in midair on the yoke, rather you simply rest your arm on your thigh and stabilize the stick. While you're at it, go ahead and install a nice autopilot (which you can do yourself if you got an experimental). That should make reading the charts and taking notes somewhat easier. Some may lambast me for saying it, but some might just include an autopilot on minimum equipment list for IFR.
 
FORANE said:
Get a real airplane with a stick; they are much easier to maintain correct attitude. You won't get a tired arm from having to hold your hand suspended in midair on the yoke, rather you simply rest your arm on your thigh and stabilize the stick.
Click to expand...

I'll be the first person in line to defend a stick over a yoke, but I've never flown a yoke airplane without an armrest to put my elbow on.
 
GMascelli said:
Yoke mount with iPad mini provides easy access to the info and does not block line of sight.
Click to expand...
Looks a lot like the set up I used to use with a full-size iPad (Mooney in this case)
MooneyIpad.PNG
 
The least amount of things you have, the better you will be. "all the gear, no idea."

iPad mini (with phone services), which is compatible with the apple pencil. With will minimize extra pens, paper.

While space is limited, how you used a simulator (AATD) and tried to find a workflow that works for you? When space is limited, knowing what you need to do, create mental space which will help you in your flights.
 
Paper or electronic, charts just sit in my lap. Notepad somewhere to write on, now that I don’t use paper charts. ;)
 
Did you ever “mount” your sectional to the yoke? If no, I really don’t understand mounting a $800 electronic piece of paper to the yoke.
iPad sits in my lap. Pushed up out of the way during takeoff/landing.

As a CFII, I find myself constantly having to look around the pilot’s mounted iPad to see instruments I need to.

+1 to those that said stop staring at the little blue airplane.

My 1.5 cent rant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
crash7 said:
Did you ever “mount” your sectional to the yoke? If no, I really don’t understand mounting a $800 electronic piece of paper to the yoke.
iPad sits in my lap. Pushed up out of the way during takeoff/landing.

As a CFII, I find myself constantly having to look around the pilot’s mounted iPad to see instruments I need to.

+1 to those that said stop staring at the little blue airplane.

My 1.5 cent rant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Why *wouldn't* you attach charts to the yoke if you could? Why subject yourself to losing a free hand in IMC messing with either paper or tablet, when you can just glance down to read the chart? Just get an iPad mini and a yoke mount that fits, and you'll be good to go.
 
Different strokes I guess. Back in the day I did sometimes clip the paper approach plate to the yoke in some way. Not all the time.
I never tried to clip/mount a sectional or L chart. Too much work to keep the relevant area up front (folding/spindling/mutilating). Plus I’m supposed to be looking out the window anyway (or the instruments in IMC).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
AlleyCat67 said:
Why *wouldn't* you attach charts to the yoke if you could? Why subject yourself to losing a free hand in IMC messing with either paper or tablet, when you can just glance down to read the chart? Just get an iPad mini and a yoke mount that fits, and you'll be good to go.
Click to expand...
Because it takes two hands to attach the charts to the yoke?
 
lancie00 said:
I use a yoke mounted tablet in our Arrow. Find a way to mount it low so you can see the guages.
Click to expand...
That's what I do. Really helpful. No more fumbling with iPad on my leg, I don't have to look as down as before, and it frees up my leg for a kneeboard.
 
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