Coast Guard closing the rivers in DC for 11 days....

wsuffa

wsuffa

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WASHINGTON - The U.S. Coast Guard has proposed closing the Potomac and Anacostia rivers for the 11 days surrounding the inauguration.
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So the precedent established with GA has now been pushed onto boaters. :mad3: Wanna place any bets as to how long it will take for the FAA/TSA/Security weenies to propose an 11 day ban on GA? :nono:
 
Im actually glad of this. The only way we can do anything about the TSA/DHS is if they **** off enough groups that the number of voices complaining will actually be heard.
 
EdFred said:
Im actually glad of this. The only way we can do anything about the TSA/DHS is if they **** off enough groups that the number of voices complaining will actually be heard.
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I think that's a good point. There are A LOT more boaters than GA pilots.
 
Everskyward said:
But how many of them want to go boating around DC in the middle of January? :confused:
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Not that I agree with the closure in principle, but I think that's a good question. Are there really that many boaters out there anyway during that time of the year? I honestly don't know, so... :confused:
 
Everskyward said:
But how many of them want to go boating around DC in the middle of January? :confused:
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Ha! Good point, but this sets a precedent and some event could happen in July that would render the same restrictions.
 
Anthony said:
Ha! Good point, but this sets a precedent and some event could happen in July that would render the same restrictions.
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I agree that the closure is stupid, but I'm just wondering how many protests it will bring from boaters. :dunno:
 
Everskyward said:
I agree that the closure is stupid, but I'm just wondering how many protests it will bring from boaters. :dunno:
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You're right. This time of year, probably none, but if it happens during the boating season, maybe a bunch.
 
...seems to me that it is time to just close the roads into and out of DC.

In fact, I suggest we outsource the federal government to Mumbai.
 
SCCutler said:
...seems to me that it is time to just close the roads into and out of DC.

In fact, I suggest we outsource the federal government to Mumbai.
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might as well ... everything else is.

"English spoken here ... by request only ... maybe."
 
EdFred said:
Im actually glad of this. The only way we can do anything about the TSA/DHS is if they **** off enough groups that the number of voices complaining will actually be heard.
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Good point Ed. The DHS through the Coast Guard (Which os part of DHS) has started to really annoy boaters in N. Mi by making them check in with customs should they cross the international boarder when they are out fishing. Even if they did nto stop at a foreign port, they still have to go through all the INS and Customs rigamarole.
 
SCCutler said:
...seems to me that it is time to just close the roads into and out of DC.
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Well.......we're leaving town. We're going to hang out at the farm with the critters......it's gotta be more sane with them than what'll be going on downtown.
 
Not saying I agree with the idea, but I think I understand why -- it will take the security folks that long to sweep the waters for any surprises someone may be planting.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not saying I agree with the idea, but I think I understand why -- it will take the security folks that long to sweep the waters for any surprises someone may be planting.
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If they (the SS) are that worried perhaps it is best to keep the POTUS in a safe underground location, such as Cheyene Mountain, for their term.

There is reasonable precaution and security theater. I think this, as well as many things that TSA is inflicting upon aviation, is the latter.

Last I heard there were not going to be any water festivities for the president, if DHS is worried about a WMD then they should also stop all vehicle traffic from the district as well as anyone carrying a backpack.
 
The more DHS picks on other (larger) groups than us, the better. The sooner we get a large group of voices pointing out that trading liberty for "security" is not the American way, the sooner we can get the elected efficials to notice and start the pendulum swinging the other way.

When BOAT/US starts to complain, the aviation groups should be right there singing "me too!"
 
SCCutler said:
...seems to me that it is time to just close the roads into and out of DC.

In fact, I suggest we outsource the federal government to Mumbai.
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Yep. Plenty safe over there.
 
I think Ed's point is important though the time of the year makes it less effective. Here's something I posted earlier this year about what happen on the Boortz show a few years ago. I wish I had an audio clip from that show. It demonstrated just about exactly what Ed was saying...

A few years ago, a bunch of people were calling into Boortz throughout the week complaining about those "rich, privileged private pilots and their expensive airplanes" and how they need to be better regulated. So, Neal decided to have some fun one morning when he went on the air.

Some of you already know he states to never believe what he says unless you've verified it for yourself or already know it to be generally true. This is just such a reason he says that.

He went on the air and began stating there was news about DHS had plans to regulate access by private boats on reservoirs used for drinking water and for stretches of river shores along major cities. People called in up in arms and saying how government can't do that.

I bet many of those same people were ready to limit the rights and privileges of private pilots.
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I suppose it could be another version of the NIMBY types. As long as it doesn't affect them, who cares? But, who willl they come for next?
 
Not saying I agree with the idea, but I think I understand why -- it will take the security folks that long to sweep the waters for any surprises someone may be planting.
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Pardon, Ron, but the inagural festivities are nowhere near the waterfront. Not even close. Unless someone is going to bring scuds in, they just can't do any damage to the festivities. And the same systems used for protecting against trucks and existing watercraft can be used. This is enormous overkill on the part of the CG. Even general aviation is not as restricted as this.

This will also ground (or is the right word "shore") the various dinner cruises that do operate year-round. I'd think that there would be a substantial loss to those guys for the Inagural festivities.

I hope they tell the disappointed customers the reason that they're not allowed to sail.

I suspect this is part of a broader plan to choke off personal recreation vehicles and require government permission to travel.
 
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This implies to me that our intelligence is so bad and/or DHS so clueless that they'd rather shut down everything instead of figuring out how to protect it.

Let's stop all air travel to DC for a few weeks, too. It can only help.

Felix
 
Someone PLEASE remind me why I'm even pondering relocating to this area! I'm almost ready to move to Canada.
 
sba55 said:
This implies to me that our intelligence is so bad and/or DHS so clueless that they'd rather shut down everything instead of figuring out how to protect it.

Let's stop all air travel to DC for a few weeks, too. It can only help.

Felix
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You DO know, don't you, that the TSA has finalized their "Secure Flight" proposal.... the airlines will not be allowed to issue boarding passes for any passenger until the TSA gives them permission to issue same.

It's gonna be h*ll when there's huge travel disruptions and the TSA's computers can't process the requests in a timely manner (or when the computers go down). And there's a very large chance that someone who books within 72 hours will end up getting the "special" SSSS search flag.
 
I'm sure you can still rent a U-Haul or Penske truck anywhere around that area with nothing more than a driver's license and a credit card.
 
I wouldn't put it past them to re-activate this one to patrol the riverine environment.....

0854709.jpg
 
Rotor&Wing said:
I'm sure you can still rent a U-Haul or Penske truck anywhere around that area with nothing more than a driver's license and a credit card.
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You can. I had no more than that when picking up a 24' truck back in August.
 
OTOH, maybe the Coasties just don't want to have to deal with too many idiots in boats coming for the inauguration clogging the rivers and needing to be rescued out of freezing cold water.
 
Ron Levy said:
OTOH, maybe the Coasties just don't want to have to deal with too many idiots in boats coming for the inauguration clogging the rivers and needing to be rescued out of freezing cold water.
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Geez guys, This time of year if we get some really cold weather the water will skin over with ice... Then the U.S Coast Guard will have to deploy ice breakers to clear the way into the festivities. Remember Palm 90 into the river ? That was Boeings attempt at ice breaking !!! All they would have to do is claim their only ice breaker is down for service.... It is either BS up front or on the back end, no matter what they will cram it down our throats.. Till the revolution starts. :smilewinkgrin::yikes::rolleyes:

Merry Christmas from snowy Jackson Hole Wy.

Ben.
 
wsuffa said:
You DO know, don't you, that the TSA has finalized their "Secure Flight" proposal.... the airlines will not be allowed to issue boarding passes for any passenger until the TSA gives them permission to issue same.

It's gonna be h*ll when there's huge travel disruptions and the TSA's computers can't process the requests in a timely manner (or when the computers go down). And there's a very large chance that someone who books within 72 hours will end up getting the "special" SSSS search flag.
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Oh yeah. Well, from what I understand, you already have to get a "permission to travel" to come to the U.S. from countries where you don't need a visa. Waste of time.

Don't even get me started on that SSSS stuff. It's so useless that it's almost comical. Do they really think the bad guys don't know how to use a copy machine to hide that?

Incidentally, the only time I've been SSSS'd was when I got a new boarding pass _inside_ security for a standby flight. Of course, that was completely useless.

-Felix
 
wsuffa said:
Pardon, Ron, but the inagural festivities are nowhere near the waterfront. Not even close.
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Isn't the swearing in on the west side of the Capital?
Isn't the Capital at the east end of the National Mall?
Isn't the Jefferson Memorial on the west end of the National Mall?
Isn't there a river next to the Jefferson Memorial?
Granted it is 2.5 miles from the Capital to the river, but thats mere seconds for unguided rockets or mortar rounds launched from a boat in the river.
Ask the US or Israeli military how hard it is to locate and stop such an attack.
 
john smith said:
Isn't the swearing in on the west side of the Capital?
Isn't the Capital at the east end of the National Mall?
Isn't the Jefferson Memorial on the west end of the National Mall?
Isn't there a river next to the Jefferson Memorial?
Granted it is 2.5 miles from the Capital to the river, but thats mere seconds for unguided rockets or mortar rounds launched from a boat in the river.
Ask the US or Israeli military how hard it is to locate and stop such an attack.
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I could drive along the GW Parkway, US 50 in Arlington, Rosslyn, National Airport, I-295, any of the roads in SE or along the Anacostia river, the roads in NW that remain open, sit on any rooftop outside the security zone, etc, etc, and do the same thing much easier than I could from a boat.

This is about theater and having power over the people than it is about real security.
 
wsuffa said:
I could drive along the GW Parkway, US 50 in Arlington, Rosslyn, National Airport, I-295, any of the roads in SE or along the Anacostia river, the roads in NW that remain open, sit on any rooftop outside the security zone, etc, etc, and do the same thing much easier than I could from a boat.

This is about theater and having power over the people than it is about real security.
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If they suspend river traffic, that is one less venue to expend manpower to secure. I fully agree with you, the land presents the greatest threat. But that is also how most people will travel.
 
wsuffa said:
"National security". And as such, they don't think they have to release any more information as to "why".
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No, they don't, but sometimes the explanation is given when it isn't obvious, and this one isn't obvious. OTOH, they never gave more than "national security" as the explanation for the Cheney zone in St Mike's, and everybody knows that one is only to keep news helos out of his back yard.
 
SCCutler said:
...seems to me that it is time to just close the roads into and out of DC.

In fact, I suggest we outsource the federal government to Mumbai.
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As it is, DC is already run by Nigerians. Don't ask me how I know this.

Monk
 
Ron Levy said:
No, they don't, but sometimes the explanation is given when it isn't obvious, and this one isn't obvious. OTOH, they never gave more than "national security" as the explanation for the Cheney zone in St Mike's, and everybody knows that one is only to keep news helos out of his back yard.
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Ron, as far as I can tell, the proposal isn't even published on the USCG web site, it's only received limited news coverage on a few outlets, buried during the holiday season. I strongly suspect that's to keep it quiet until they unilaterally invoke the rule. The news outlet I posted the link to has been very accurate about such things in the past.

From some of the stuff I've seen out of DHS (and USCG is part of DHS), it is not uncommon to handle things this way.

11 days is an extraordinarily long time... and may well be a precursor to a permanent no-boat zone around DC.
 
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