Co-ownership

J

James Hyde

Filing Flight Plan
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Jan 2, 2019
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Clipper1
Good morning,

I'm looking for a little help regarding a plane I co-own (50-50) with a ex-friend! He is denying me access to the plane (it is parked in his hanger). Has anyone else had an issue like this and what did they do?

I know this will probably end up with the lawyers; however, I figured I'd ask and see if anyone with experience of such a problem can shed some light.

thank you in advance.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Surely there's more to this story than that.
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Yes, of course there is. I want to fly it with a CFI and he doesn’t want me to fly it with anyone but himself. He is an airline pilot and doesn’t trust anyone to fly it with me but himself.
 
James Hyde said:
Yes, of course there is. I want to fly it with a CFI and he doesn’t want me to fly it with anyone but himself. He is an airline pilot and doesn’t trust anyone to fly it with me but himself.
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I've got no experience in this but I do have some questions. You said it was co-owned 50/50. Is there anything in your agreement that gives him 'authority.' Anything that specifies who can fly it? Any Written Agreement? Did you buy it together or did one of you own it and take the other on as a partner? Who does Registration/Title list as owner?
 
James Hyde said:
Yes, of course there is. I want to fly it with a CFI and he doesn’t want me to fly it with anyone but himself. He is an airline pilot and doesn’t trust anyone to fly it with me but himself.
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More questions. Are you certificated, or a Student and he is your CFI?
 
luvflyin said:
I've got no experience in this but I do have some questions. You said it was co-owned 50/50. Is there anything in your agreement that gives him 'authority.' Anything that specifies who can fly it? Any Written Agreement? Did you buy it together or did one of you own it and take the other on as a partner? Who does Registration/Title list as owner?
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We purchased the plane together and both put in exactly half of the value. We don't have an agreement. The registration/title shows us as equal owners. I'm 99% certain this will end up with the lawyers. I'm wondering if anyone has had the same issue with any property someone has restricted them access to.
 
James Hyde said:
We purchased the plane together and both put in exactly half of the value. We don't have an agreement. The registration/title shows us as equal owners. I'm 99% certain this will end up with the lawyers. I'm wondering if anyone has had the same issue with any property someone has restricted them access to.
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How are you being restricted?

Are you insured to fly the aircraft?
 
“Next in line please!”

“Yes, can I get an extra large tub of popcorn?”
 
Sorry I don't have any advice, but good luck. Sounds like the end of a friendship.

Maybe offer to keep it out of courts with something like you will be happy to sell your half for a profit.??
 
Easy answer: Send him, via certified mail, a demand letter for access to the airplane or the return of however many thousands of dollars you have in the plane. Cite in your letter that your access to the asset has been restricted unfairly.

Be ready for: "It's in his hangar, are you funding part of that storage?" Could be a different piece of the puzzle.

Like others, I think something is fishy on this one. But if it's real, my advice stands.
 
don't waste your time on the internet, call attorney.
 
You know that every so often someone posts in this forum how to set up a partnership. Then there’s a bunch of posts about drawing up an agreement to address this type of situation.

Someone should make this a sticky so the next person that comes along asking about partnerships can read about the downside.

And on the topic, I had a very similar situation in my last partnership. It was solved very unamicably with lots of threats, letters and eventually checks being written. The best time to sort these situations out is way before the situation begins.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Whose business is it who rides with you right seat, be it spouse, friend, dog, or CFI? Are you a student pilot? If not, take the plane and keep your passenger manifest confidential.
 
Salty said:
How are you being restricted?

Are you insured to fly the aircraft?
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Yes, I am insured to fly the airplane. The airplane is parked in his hanger on his property and he has said 'do not come onto my property'.
Ravioli said:
Easy answer: Send him, via certified mail, a demand letter for access to the airplane or the return of however many thousands of dollars you have in the plane. Cite in your letter that your access to the asset has been restricted unfairly.

Be ready for: "It's in his hangar, are you funding part of that storage?" Could be a different piece of the puzzle.
drjcustis said:
You know that every so often someone posts in this forum how to set up a partnership. Then there’s a bunch of posts about drawing up an agreement to address this type of situation.

Someone should make this a sticky so the next person that comes along asking about partnerships can read about the downside.

And on the topic, I had a very similar situation in my last partnership. It was solved very unamicably with lots of threats, letters and eventually checks being written. The best time to sort these situations out is way before the situation begins.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Like others, I think something is fishy on this one. But if it's real, my advice stands.
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Thanks for the advice. I have offered
drjcustis said:
You know that every so often someone posts in this forum how to set up a partnership. Then there’s a bunch of posts about drawing up an agreement to address this type of situation.

Someone should make this a sticky so the next person that comes along asking about partnerships can read about the downside.

And on the topic, I had a very similar situation in my last partnership. It was solved very unamicably with lots of threats, letters and eventually checks being written. The best time to sort these situations out is way before the situation begins.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Thank you for the advice. Were you able to access your plane? I'm wondering if I can turn up to his house (where his hanger is) with a police office and the registration/title and request access. If nothing else it's an official log of being denied access.
 
Doesn’t the CFI need to be on the insurance??
 
I think your best option is to demand your money back.
 
I don’t think this is real, because I can’t imagine two partners acting like elementary school children.

If it is, do you realize that you’re wasting more time trying to get advice on the internet? None of us can help you with this. Get off the web and hire an attorney.
 
As with the FBO took my plane thread, this is a civil matter.

We’re I in the OPs shoes, I’d offer to accept being made whole, that is bought out of my half of the purchase price and walk away.

Otherwise it’ll probably take lawyers and a judgement.
 
Ryanb said:
I don’t think this is real, because I can’t imagine two partners acting like elementary school children.

If it is, do you realize that you’re wasting more time trying to get advice on the internet? None of us can help you with this. Get off the web and hire an attorney.
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This. Creates new account with extremely vague story of being wronged by others. That is pretty much chapter one out of the how to be an internet troll textbook. So I do not believe a word of it. But whether I believe it or not does not change the fact that no amount of internet research could solve the presented problem.
 
Well, Floyd Hatfield believed that possession was 9/10s of the law to retain possession of the pig that the McCoys claimed was their property...
 
drjcustis said:
You know that every so often someone posts in this forum how to set up a partnership. Then there’s a bunch of posts about drawing up an agreement to address this type of situation.
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I'm amazed at how many people buy a share of an airplane without a written agreement of the rules. I know a guy who had a 1/5 partnership in a 172. He felt that since he owned part of the plane, he could loan the plane out to his friends. The other members didn't agree, but there was nothing in writing to prevent him from doing it. Eventually, he sold his share.

You would think they had learned their lesson, but no. The guy who bought the share was an older guy and his son wanted to learn how to fly. Since he owned a share, he thought it was okay for his son to use the club plane for lessons.

So while it seems hard to believe, I know of at least two people who thought this was justified behavior. Make sure you have all rules written in a partnership agreement that is signed and notarized.
 
James Hyde said:
We purchased the plane together and both put in exactly half of the value. We don't have an agreement.
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Well, that wasn't too smart. Guess you'll know better next time. Good luck sorting it out this time.

I'm 90% with the "this is a troll" crowd. The guy has been asked at least twice if he's a student pilot and hasn't answered that question. If this is for real, go get a lawyer. You have no clue what you're doing, and any advice you receive here is worthless to you.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I'm amazed at how many people buy a share of an airplane without a written agreement of the rules. I know a guy who had a 1/5 partnership in a 172. He felt that since he owned part of the plane, he could loan the plane out to his friends. The other members didn't agree, but there was nothing in writing to prevent him from doing it. Eventually, he sold his share.

You would think they had learned their lesson, but no. The guy who bought the share was an older guy and his son wanted to learn how to fly. Since he owned a share, he thought it was okay for his son to use the club plane for lessons.

So while it seems hard to believe, I know of at least two people who thought this was justified behavior. Make sure you have all rules written in a partnership agreement that is signed and notarized.
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Lacking a written agreement to the contrary, there's no reason to think you can't do that sort of thing. Shame on the OTHER four owners for allowing #5 to sell his share to a new guy without having a written agreement. Of course -- there was nothing preventing him from just selling his share to anyone, was there? Their only option would be (or is) to buy out the offender, draw up a written agreement and get everyone on board, then re-sell the 1/5 share.

Every lesson carries a tuition payment of some sort, doesn't it?

Sold half my plane to my current co-owner. We made damn sure we had an agreement in principle, and put that agreement in writing, with the assistance of an attorney, before any money or keys changed hands. We're good friends and both alive, married, financially solvent and flying, but if any of those things change we have a very detailed agreement in place to deal with it.
 
DaleB said:
Lacking a written agreement to the contrary, there's no reason to think you can't do that sort of thing. Shame on the OTHER four owners for allowing #5 to sell his share to a new guy without having a written agreement. Of course -- there was nothing preventing him from just selling his share to anyone, was there? Their only option would be (or is) to buy out the offender, draw up a written agreement and get everyone on board, then re-sell the 1/5 share.

Every lesson carries a tuition payment of some sort, doesn't it?
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Exactly!

When I was a kid, my Uncle had a 1/8 share in a 172. They had a lot of rules. One of them was you couldn't sell to anyone you wanted. The other 7 guys got to vote on it. If they didn't like the person you were selling to, they had the right to buy your share from you, and they had a certain amount of time to do it. I don't remember the specifics. I know over the years, the club went from 8 members to 4 before the plane was destroyed in a crash.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Exactly!

When I was a kid, my Uncle had a 1/8 share in a 172. They had a lot of rules. One of them was you couldn't sell to anyone you wanted. The other 7 guys got to vote on it. If they didn't like the person you were selling to, they had the right to buy your share from you, and they had a certain amount of time to do it. I don't remember the specifics. I know over the years, the club went from 8 members to 4 before the plane was destroyed in a crash.
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too bad they didn't have a written agreement that said 'no crashing the plane'!
 
eman1200 said:
too bad they didn't have a written agreement that said 'no crashing the plane'!
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Yeah, something about 4 adults, two dogs, ski equipment, and launching with a density altitude of 4300'...
 
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