CO losses job over flyover

luvflyin said:
well, if it was faster and lower than regs or orders.....
Next question is why. Was he flat hatting and showing off? Behind the plane? LtCol is a little up there to still be a line pilot. Wonder how much flight time he’s had in the last month. 90 days.
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The CO is a WSO riding in the back seat. His pilot up front was doing the flying. CO takes the hit because he’s ultimately responsible.

It was a ceremony to signal the end of the F-18 and the beginning of the F-35 for the squadron. No idea what parameters they have for such an event but I’ve seen far worse for air show MAGTF demos.
 
Just makes no sense...sad state if that gets you fired...no wonder retention is a problem.
 
smv said:
The what of the what?? It was not all that long ago that we did initial carrier trials for the brand-new F/A-18E/F on CVN-74!! That was only...... Oh.... wait... 23 years ago... Disregard.

:confused:
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Yeah the Navy will be holding on to their Super Hornets for a long time to come. However, the Marines are getting rid of their Legacy Hornets all together in the next few years.

Actually spent 2 days on CVN-74. ;)

46623185-E414-46C2-9B1F-BDF740F09B09.jpeg
 
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Question.. I've always noticed this on carrier takeoffs.. why do the rudders face, and seem to oppose, each other? I had assumed this was to help with pitching up, but the elevator is almost neutral? Pray tell...

upload_2020-1-31_22-13-59.png
 
Also. We've gone softer than a bowl of pudding. How does THAT get you fired?
 
Seems like Maverick spilled some coffee on the tower chief again. He''ll be at Miramar before uniform gets back from the cleaners.
 
Tantalum said:
Question.. I've always noticed this on carrier takeoffs.. why do the rudders face, and seem to oppose, each other? I had assumed this was to help with pitching up, but the elevator is almost neutral? Pray tell...

View attachment 82440
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They're both deflected inward to help lift the nose.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Yeah the Navy will be holding on to their Super Hornets for a long time to come. However, the Marines are getting rid of their Legacy Hornets all together in the next few years.
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Ahhh... That makes more sense. :)

Velocity173 said:
Actually spent 2 days on CVN-74. ;)
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Schweet! When were you there?

When I arrived in Newport News in early '95 the welds holding the island to the deck had hardly cooled. I left two weeks before maiden deployment (and went to Guam) in '98. It was a challenging three years for sure. Taking it from an empty shell to aa fully functional carrier was a LOT of fun.
 
Tantalum said:
Question.. I've always noticed this on carrier takeoffs.. why do the rudders face, and seem to oppose, each other? I had assumed this was to help with pitching up, but the elevator is almost neutral? Pray tell...

View attachment 82440
Click to expand...

That is called rudder "toe in". It is trimmed this way on every takeoff, carrier or shore. Like Velocity said, it provides additional pitch authority. One of the "fixes" that Mac Air provided when they realized the jet had its main gear too far aft and was already aft heavy. As for the stab trim, that is 4 deg NU for Super Hornet and 12 NU for Hornet on a field takeoff. 7 NU for SH and 16 NU for Hornet on carrier TO. So not really neutral, though those deflections probably don't look very significant in pics. If you have asymmetric stores loading in either, you will do a differential/split trim on the stabs for a CV cat shot. The idea in any case being that you put your right (stick) hand on the "towel rack" handle on the canopy bow and the jet flies away. It normally did this just fine, but I always found that when flying a "5 wet" configured F/A-18E/F tanker, for the max 66k GW shot, it normally helped the comfort level to immediately pitch manually to 10-12 deg NU pitch attitude specified in the "emergency catapult flyaway" procedure. Made the water smaller quicker. We had lots of weird issues with high natural winds (likely due to shifting winds and gusts) on cat shots in the 5W where you would excessively settle and the 40' AGL radar altimeter alert would go off. At night, you have about 1-2 seconds to decide if that is real, and if the jet is still settling before you have to pull the handle and get out. Luckily never did, but I had a couple scares, always in the tanker.

And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
 
smv said:
Ahhh... That makes more sense. :)



Schweet! When were you there?

When I arrived in Newport News in early '95 the welds holding the island to the deck had hardly cooled. I left two weeks before maiden deployment (and went to Guam) in '98. It was a challenging three years for sure. Taking it from an empty shell to aa fully functional carrier was a LOT of fun.
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Oh it was sometime in 99. We went out to see how ATC is conducted on the boat.
 
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35 AoA said:
So not really neutral, though those deflections probably don't look very significant in pics. If you have asymmetric stores loading in either, you will do a differential/split trim on the stabs for a CV cat shot.
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If you look at the left side in that pic, it’s more obvious.
 
35 AoA said:
...And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
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Yep. And congratulations.
 
35 AoA said:
That is called rudder "toe in". It is trimmed this way on every takeoff, carrier or shore. Like Velocity said, it provides additional pitch authority. One of the "fixes" that Mac Air provided when they realized the jet had its main gear too far aft and was already aft heavy. As for the stab trim, that is 4 deg NU for Super Hornet and 12 NU for Hornet on a field takeoff. 7 NU for SH and 16 NU for Hornet on carrier TO. So not really neutral, though those deflections probably don't look very significant in pics. If you have asymmetric stores loading in either, you will do a differential/split trim on the stabs for a CV cat shot. The idea in any case being that you put your right (stick) hand on the "towel rack" handle on the canopy bow and the jet flies away. It normally did this just fine, but I always found that when flying a "5 wet" configured F/A-18E/F tanker, for the max 66k GW shot, it normally helped the comfort level to immediately pitch manually to 10-12 deg NU pitch attitude specified in the "emergency catapult flyaway" procedure. Made the water smaller quicker. We had lots of weird issues with high natural winds (likely due to shifting winds and gusts) on cat shots in the 5W where you would excessively settle and the 40' AGL radar altimeter alert would go off. At night, you have about 1-2 seconds to decide if that is real, and if the jet is still settling before you have to pull the handle and get out. Luckily never did, but I had a couple scares, always in the tanker.

And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
Click to expand...

The hornet has a forward not aft CG issue. Both a loaded gun and the centerline tank contribute to this.
 
35 AoA said:
That is called rudder "toe in". It is trimmed this way on every takeoff, carrier or shore. Like Velocity said, it provides additional pitch authority. One of the "fixes" that Mac Air provided when they realized the jet had its main gear too far aft and was already aft heavy. As for the stab trim, that is 4 deg NU for Super Hornet and 12 NU for Hornet on a field takeoff. 7 NU for SH and 16 NU for Hornet on carrier TO. So not really neutral, though those deflections probably don't look very significant in pics. If you have asymmetric stores loading in either, you will do a differential/split trim on the stabs for a CV cat shot. The idea in any case being that you put your right (stick) hand on the "towel rack" handle on the canopy bow and the jet flies away. It normally did this just fine, but I always found that when flying a "5 wet" configured F/A-18E/F tanker, for the max 66k GW shot, it normally helped the comfort level to immediately pitch manually to 10-12 deg NU pitch attitude specified in the "emergency catapult flyaway" procedure. Made the water smaller quicker. We had lots of weird issues with high natural winds (likely due to shifting winds and gusts) on cat shots in the 5W where you would excessively settle and the 40' AGL radar altimeter alert would go off. At night, you have about 1-2 seconds to decide if that is real, and if the jet is still settling before you have to pull the handle and get out. Luckily never did, but I had a couple scares, always in the tanker.

And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
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Congrats man! Never went to my retirement ceremony. Didn’t care for the way they did it. Bunch of people in the crowd I don’t know and you walk across the stage and get your cert like it’s a high school graduation.
 
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Velocity173 said:
Never went to my retirement ceremony
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To bad. I thought the retirement ceremony's in the VP Squadron I was in were nice. You knew everyone in the squadron, and most of the family members. Short ceremony, plaque with a picture of a P-3 and everyone's best wishes and congrats. Fairly good food and drink, but no beer...:(
 
AKBill said:
To bad. I thought the retirement ceremony's in the VP Squadron I was in were nice. You knew everyone in the squadron, and most of the family members. Short ceremony, plaque with a picture of a P-3 and everyone's best wishes and congrats. Fairly good food and drink, but no beer...:(
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And that’s the way it should be done. Some units I was in did it that way. It was a more personal experience with the people you served with. I did have a farewell party at work but there was no official ceremony to it.
 
Velocity173 said:
And that’s the way it should be done. Some units I was in did it that way. It was a more personal experience with the people you served with. I did have a farewell party at work but there was no official ceremony to it.
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Heh. Held mine at the USAFA golf club. Gen Lori Robinson was a good friend and here ceremony was the same time/date as mine, so missed hers but kept out all the stuffy people I didn’t know but were looking for a free piece of cake.

Squadron + close friends. Done in 30 mins, then opened the bar and was roasted by my men.

The headed over for the private party with the close friends and family. Sat around a fire pit with cigars and bourbon. It was mighty fine.
 
Warlock said:
Just makes no sense...sad state if that gets you fired...no wonder retention is a problem.
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I hate it when the media uses the word "fired" in relation to the military. To Joe and Jane Sixpack, "fired" means that someone is no longer employed...in the military it just means reassignment. Military officers can retire or resign their commissons, but they cannot be fired.

Bob Gardner
 
35 AoA said:
And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
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BZ, zero digit midget!
 
35 AoA said:
That is called rudder "toe in". It is trimmed this way on every takeoff, carrier or shore. Like Velocity said, it provides additional pitch authority. One of the "fixes" that Mac Air provided when they realized the jet had its main gear too far aft and was already aft heavy. As for the stab trim, that is 4 deg NU for Super Hornet and 12 NU for Hornet on a field takeoff. 7 NU for SH and 16 NU for Hornet on carrier TO. So not really neutral, though those deflections probably don't look very significant in pics. If you have asymmetric stores loading in either, you will do a differential/split trim on the stabs for a CV cat shot. The idea in any case being that you put your right (stick) hand on the "towel rack" handle on the canopy bow and the jet flies away. It normally did this just fine, but I always found that when flying a "5 wet" configured F/A-18E/F tanker, for the max 66k GW shot, it normally helped the comfort level to immediately pitch manually to 10-12 deg NU pitch attitude specified in the "emergency catapult flyaway" procedure. Made the water smaller quicker. We had lots of weird issues with high natural winds (likely due to shifting winds and gusts) on cat shots in the 5W where you would excessively settle and the 40' AGL radar altimeter alert would go off. At night, you have about 1-2 seconds to decide if that is real, and if the jet is still settling before you have to pull the handle and get out. Luckily never did, but I had a couple scares, always in the tanker.

And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
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Thanks for the cool, and informative, write up!
 
Fired = Relieved...not drummed out of the service...but we’re speaking civilian here...I was commissioned three times...resigned twice and retired once...in today’s Army I would of been fired for conduct with Portuguese Marines but received a a General letter of reprimand...that expired in a year from my file...but I still have a Portuguese Marine Beret which is a coveted piece of my personal military history....
 
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bobmrg said:
Military officers can retire or resign their commissons, but they cannot be fired.

Bob Gardner
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Commissioned officers must certainly can be fired. It's called a dismissal from the US Military. Carries the same weight as a dishonorable discharge does for enlisted. The only difference is commissioned officers cannot be reduced in rank by a court martial.
 
Jeff767 said:
The hornet has a forward not aft CG issue. Both a loaded gun and the centerline tank contribute to this.
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I expect that's what @35 AoA meant - Rudder toe-in helps increase the nose-up pitch authority that a forward CG and main gear 'too far' aft reduce.

Nauga,
12-30-30-30-12
 
35 AoA said:
And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
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Congrats on the 214. Got mine a number of decades ago. Welcome to the civilian ranks. You know what's better? Being retired. Best job I've ever had (typing this from Hawaii :D ).
 
nauga said:
I expect that's what @35 AoA meant - Rudder toe-in helps increase the nose-up pitch authority that a forward CG and main gear 'too far' aft reduce.

Nauga,
12-30-30-30-12
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affirm. confusion entirely my own lack of proofreading :) (also nice signoff......that one will forever be burned into my memory)

Thanks fellas! Feels weird but good
 
Did @35 AoA retire or separate? Everybody gets a DD214 after any 90 consecutive day stretch of title 10 orders. DD214 doesn't imply you hit the check of the month club. Hell, I got half a dozen DD214s, and I'm still 6 years away from Active retirement Shangri-La. *I think I can I think I can* :D

Congrats either way, and much good fortunes on the next chapter.
 
35 AoA said:
Thanks fellas! Feels weird but good
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It gets weirder...

What really drove it home was getting my 30-year letter, three years too late. :confused:
 
hindsight2020 said:
Did @35 AoA retire or separate? Everybody gets a DD214 after any 90 consecutive day stretch of title 10 orders. DD214 doesn't imply you hit the check of the month club. Hell, I got half a dozen DD214s, and I'm still 6 years away from Active retirement Shangri-La. *I think I can I think I can* :D

Congrats either way, and much good fortunes on the next chapter.
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I quit (separated) hindsight :) I guess that is what I was getting at with that statement......stuff like this is why I dropped my letter a couple years ago. ~12 years active (or actually 11 years, 10 mos, 11 days), so I'll still be around for a while in the reserves, flying the jet in a different job. And this is all true for those who aren't familiar. Still feels weird to be a true civilian until I am backdated by the reserves in a few weeks to today.

Good luck to you too, I'm sure there is very little that would prevent you from getting there at this point!
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
Explain the sign off please
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When you got to the "TO Trim" portion of the before TO checklist, you would verify those numbers, i.e. leading edge flaps 12 down, trailing edge flaps 30 down, ailerons 30 down, rudders toed in and stabs 12 nose up. That was Hornet specifically, for a standard 1/2 flap takeoff. SH is slightly different
 
The Rhino/Growler would be;

0-15-30-30-40-4 deg nose up...
 
bobmrg said:
I hate it when the media uses the word "fired" in relation to the military. To Joe and Jane Sixpack, "fired" means that someone is no longer employed...in the military it just means reassignment. Military officers can retire or resign their commissons, but they cannot be fired.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

...but they CAN be escorted from the White House...
 
35 AoA said:
That is called rudder "toe in". It is trimmed this way on every takeoff, carrier or shore. Like Velocity said, it provides additional pitch authority. One of the "fixes" that Mac Air provided when they realized the jet had its main gear too far aft and was already aft heavy. As for the stab trim, that is 4 deg NU for Super Hornet and 12 NU for Hornet on a field takeoff. 7 NU for SH and 16 NU for Hornet on carrier TO. So not really neutral, though those deflections probably don't look very significant in pics. If you have asymmetric stores loading in either, you will do a differential/split trim on the stabs for a CV cat shot. The idea in any case being that you put your right (stick) hand on the "towel rack" handle on the canopy bow and the jet flies away. It normally did this just fine, but I always found that when flying a "5 wet" configured F/A-18E/F tanker, for the max 66k GW shot, it normally helped the comfort level to immediately pitch manually to 10-12 deg NU pitch attitude specified in the "emergency catapult flyaway" procedure. Made the water smaller quicker. We had lots of weird issues with high natural winds (likely due to shifting winds and gusts) on cat shots in the 5W where you would excessively settle and the 40' AGL radar altimeter alert would go off. At night, you have about 1-2 seconds to decide if that is real, and if the jet is still settling before you have to pull the handle and get out. Luckily never did, but I had a couple scares, always in the tanker.

And I agree with your initial statement Velocity. Just got my DD-214 today and am officially a civilian as of about 47 mins ago.
Click to expand...

Congratulations and thanks for your service!!! :cheerswine:
 
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