Cloud Nine's New Plane

Ted

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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Oct 9, 2007
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iFlyNothing
I made a few posts referencing the fact that we were upgrading. It was a serendipitous set of circumstances that led to it and was not entirely planned. Basically, I got an offer I couldn't refuse on the 310. In line with that, we had been outgrowing it both because of things I wanted to do with Cloud Nine (most notably do stretcher flights to fill needs that aren't filled by typical Angel Flight type organizations) and be able to accept dog flights that might take us over the Rockies. Previously, we've generally turned these down or discouraged them due to the capabilities of the 310.

A friend of mine happened to know of a barn find that was exactly what I was looking for. Very nice (but dated) P&I, outdated /A panel, higher time engines, lower time airframe. The plane has been out of annual since 2012, but really has flown very little this millennium. It will take a lot of work to get it where I want, but it will be worth it.

Anyone who knows of a stretcher available that will fit a 414, please PM me.


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Nice looking plane! That's quite an upgrade! Congratulations!
 
jsstevens said:
Nice looking plane! That's quite an upgrade! Congratulations!
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Thanks! We're looking forward to getting it flying.

I've been calling it an upgrade/downgrade. It's definitely more plane and more capability, that's the upgrade. It's not nearly as well sorted out as the 310 was, the panel is much worse, the engines are high time, and I expect it will be slower than the 310 given how I will fly it. That's the downgrade.

This 414 cost less to buy than what we sold the 310 for - there are reasons why each plane commanded its respective price.
 
Did you say it's actually slower than the 310? By what margin?
 
Panel may be dated but as long as everything operates, especially the radar, looks fine to me, unless you have something against steam! ;)

Paint n interior look great! Very nice looking plane. Maybe you can check w/ an air ambulance company or local paramedics about stretchers. Might try google too, hell bet Amazon sells 'em! :D
 
This is awesome. Great to see that someone is going to curate this very capable 40 year old airframe and put it to a good use. Congratulations!
 
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So what is the tradeoff in performance here? Not familiar with the 400 series. Pressurization and more cabin for more gas and mx?
 
Stretcher?

Have you already talked to some medical folks and your licensing folks about requirements to be a ambulance?

Lifeport is kinda the top dog in stretchers, has a o2 tank underneath, vac, etc, I see that they have one for the C414

http://www.lifeport.com/ui/documents/LifePort-FMS-ICA-index.pdf

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Here's a few for sale for $2,500, but they are out of a chopper, not too confident these work with the STC for the C414, maybe the seller has a lead on a life port for a fixed wing.

https://touch.trademe.co.nz/motors/listing/view/992654623
 
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Mtns2Skies said:
Did you say it's actually slower than the 310? By what margin?
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hindsight2020 said:
So what is the tradeoff in performance here? Not familiar with the 400 series. Pressurization and more cabin for more gas and mx?
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I had the 310 very well optimized. It would do 190-198 KTAS @ 23-27 GPH, depending on the power setting. The 414 I expect to do about 175-180 KTAS @ 27 GPH, so figure roughly a 10% speed reduction for the same fuel burn. Of course, it will be more fuel burn due to higher climb burn rates and having to climb to a higher altitude (with a lower climb rate). Pressurization is added, and with that come turbos.

So yes, more cabin, more fuel, more MX, to go a bit slower.

mscard88 said:
Panel may be dated but as long as everything operates, especially the radar, looks fine to me, unless you have something against steam! ;)
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The radar is an old black and white unit. Yep, it's dated at /A, but is functional. I will want an IFR GPS to be /G, but the panel updates will come later. Many of the airports I fly into regularly have GPS approaches that are either the only approach, or else the best approach. These days, an IFR GPS is important equipment, but I can live without it for the time being.

James_Dean said:
This is awesome. Great to see that someone is going to curate this very capable 40 year old airframe and put it to a good use. Congratulations!
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Thanks! :)
 
Sac Arrow said:
Love the coffee station!
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It's got several cans of SlimFast in it that appear to be from the 90s.

Needless to say, I'll be going through and throwing out a few things.
 
Congratulations! That is a nice plane!
 
Groovy! :D You are going to love the room and pressurization, fuel burn... not so much, but it's a very capable machine! I have some time behind a KNS 80, I would probably need a lesson or two now, but they work pretty well as I remember. :) Your wife will never want to get back into a 310 again! :rolleyes:
 
Much as the KNS 80 was a cool box in the day, you might find some better utility if you could squeeze a WAAS GPS in there. You're going to need some ADS-B solution soon anyhow.
 
N747JB said:
Your wife will never want to get back into a 310 again! :rolleyes:
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She actually loves 310s. She was a 340 pilot before we met, and says she liked the 310 better. I agree in many respects - I think I'll miss how much fun the 310 is to fly. This will fit the total mission better, though. It's no fun trying to take the family on a road trip in a 2-seater Ferrari.

flyingron said:
Much as the KNS 80 was a cool box in the day, you might find some better utility if you could squeeze a WAAS GPS in there. You're going to need some ADS-B solution soon anyhow.
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I have a panel upgrade planned already, it's just not in the budget until next year or potentially the year after. It will be before 2020. The priorities are:

1) Aircraft - safe and functional
2) Engines
3) Panel

2 and 3 might be reversed or changed slightly if items fail.
 
James331 said:
Stretcher?

Have you already talked to some medical folks and your licensing folks about requirements to be a ambulance?

Lifeport is kinda the top dog in stretchers, has a o2 tank underneath, vac, etc, I see that they have one for the C414

http://www.lifeport.com/ui/documents/LifePort-FMS-ICA-index.pdf

lifeport.jpg








Here's a few for sale for $2,500, but they are out of a chopper, not too confident these work with the STC for the C414, maybe the seller has a lead on a life port for a fixed wing.

https://touch.trademe.co.nz/motors/listing/view/992654623
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Guessing he's not looking for that kind of setup. Before we had a Lifeport in the Lears we had a metal table/base and the stretcher attached to it. I'm guessing there's some approval involved to make sure the table/base is secured to the airplane and the stretcher is secured to the table/base, but I don't know.
 
So who's starting the betting squares on the month/year Ted upgrades to a big King Air?

(Very nice airplane, by the way!!)
 
Congratulations!! That is an awesome looking bird!
 
AggieMike88 said:
So who's starting the betting squares on the month/year Ted upgrades to a big King Air?

(Very nice airplane, by the way!!)
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Everskyward said:
Ted will get a Conquest, then a Citation, since he's partial to Twin Cessnas. :p
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I was joking with @Laurie the other day - "Whatcha wanna bet in 5 years we sell this for enough to buy a Cheyenne?" ;)

I do love the Conquest, especially the 441, but a 425 or 441 will continue to be way, way out of budget. The only reason this was something that was even potentially in budget was because of the relative prices we were able to buy this one for vs. sell the 310 for. Not being my first time at the rodeo, I know what to expect in a fixer-upper.

The Cheyenne market has the potential to get to where I could do a similar swap (sell the 414 once I fix it up for basically the price as a fixer-upper Cheyenne), but I don't see the Conquest market doing that. Also, the airplane choice is driven by mission, so our mission would have to support it. Fuel prices could make a strong argument in favor of a turbine (given the cheap cost of Jet-A vs. 100LL), so at that point it has to do with distance, maintenance, etc. I don't see ever getting a jet. Many have made the argument that they can operate a turboprop for the same price as a 414/421. I have heard nobody make that argument with a jet.

For those who want to do the over/under, here are the stats on aircraft acquisition/sales thus far:

Aztec: January 2009 - January 2013
310: August 2010 - April 2016
414: April 2016 - ???

Incidentally, yesterday marked 7 years since I started Cloud Nine.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It's no fun trying to take the family on a road trip in a 2-seater Ferrari.
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That's a good way to put it. Your new ride is going to be incredible. I'm wondering what your family will prefer more, the extra space or the pressurization?
 
bikert said:
That's a good way to put it. Your new ride is going to be incredible. I'm wondering what your family will prefer more, the extra space or the pressurization?
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Extra space will be what we all will enjoy the most on family trips. In the 310 we were packed like sardines on family trips. It really wasn't particularly safe in case of a crash, we couldn't get out fast enough and the 310's emergency exit is an unusable joke. The 414's emergency exit is very usable. More space for luggage as well (nose baggage, back of the cabin, etc.).

The pressurization will be nice mainly because it will allow us to travel over the Rockies easier, which is something we'd like to do. I was able to control descents and climbs with the 310 just fine, there were no complaints there. Since my wife is also a pilot, the cabin pressure aspects don't bother her - it's just the kids.
 
LOL Love the interior and the KNS80! Oh and Keep the ADF :)
 
Congrats Ted! You seem to follow my way of buying planes - buy basket cases that you the spend lots of time and money upgrading… ;)

Look at this transformation of a Chancellor by photographer Chris Jouany. It's very inspiring. And expensive. Guy spares no expense...


But when you're ready to take the turbine step, and you want to stay Cessna, my first stop would be a Conquest. Staying with Garrett's instead of Pratt's will save you tons in both fuel and overhaul costs. PT6's are not cheap anymore, Garretts are (relatively speaking). Plus, the Conquest has insane range. There's one guy over at the Beech forum who just flew his Conquest direct from Juneau, AK to Scottsdale, AZ non stop, burning 54gal/hr. That's pretty impressive.
 
Yes, @stratobee , I know Max. :)

Projects have worked well for me thus far. Plus I like them. It's too early to consider the turbine step, and my opinions (and the market) will change between now and then. 5+ years ago I thought the next step would be a 421, now we have a 414 because I prefer them, not because they're cheaper. I could've spent less on a 421.

Really looking forward to the adventure.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Projects have worked well for me thus far. Plus I like them. It's too early to consider the turbine step, and my opinions (and the market) will change between now and then. 5+ years ago I thought the next step would be a 421, now we have a 414 because I prefer them, not because they're cheaper. I could've spent less on a 421.

Really looking forward to the adventure.
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Why do you prefer the 414 vs the 421? lack of the geared engines?
 
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