Class C satellite departure

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DaveInPA

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Flew into KXLL for first time today which is an Allentown pa, has no tower, and is within ABE (Lehigh valley) class Charlie airspace. Came in ok talking to ABE approach and they transitioned me to 1200 and I landed like any other non-towered airport.

Taking off I looked at the sectional and the runway I wanted to use flew right into the inner Class c circle that starts at the surface. I had about a mile to turn and not enter and stay below the outer shelf. I took off and at 500 agl called approach and started my turn to avoid entering the airspace. They were pretty busy and didn’t respond and I kept my 180 degree turn and just nicked the airspace from what I could see on ForeFlight. I tried approach a few more times and finally got them when I was well clear of the inner circle and under the shelf.

So did I do wrong or Am I ok in that scenario since I called “as soon as practical” as per the far-aim? What is the correct way to handle this for a departure runway that is .7 sm from a surface class C area?
 
DaveInPA said:
Flew into KXLL for first time today which is an Allentown pa, has no tower, and is within ABE (Lehigh valley) class Charlie airspace. Came in ok talking to ABE approach and they transitioned me to 1200 and I landed like any other non-towered airport.

Taking off I looked at the sectional and the runway I wanted to use flew right into the inner Class c circle that starts at the surface. I had about a mile to turn and not enter and stay below the outer shelf. I took off and at 500 agl called approach and started my turn to avoid entering the airspace. They were pretty busy and didn’t respond and I kept my 180 degree turn and just nicked the airspace from what I could see on ForeFlight. I tried approach a few more times and finally got them when I was well clear of the inner circle and under the shelf.

So did I do wrong or Am I ok in that scenario since I called “as soon as practical” as per the far-aim? What is the correct way to handle this for a departure runway that is .7 sm from a surface class C area?
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XLL isn't inside class C, it's under class C. Sounds like If you didn't enter class C you did fine.
 
You did everything you were expected to do. You contacted Allentown Approach after departure and made your first turn early so as to avoid the Class C. That’s all that’s expected from the pilot here.

- Martin
 
At Ocean City, NJ (26N) they have signs for the Clearance Delivery frequency for nearby Atlantic City. The signs also advise pilots to call them from the ground prior to departure.
 
When I read the title, I thought is was about the the ingenuity helo on Mars
 
DaveInPA said:
Flew into KXLL for first time today which is an Allentown pa, has no tower, and is within ABE (Lehigh valley) class Charlie airspace. Came in ok talking to ABE approach and they transitioned me to 1200 and I landed like any other non-towered airport.

Taking off I looked at the sectional and the runway I wanted to use flew right into the inner Class c circle that starts at the surface. I had about a mile to turn and not enter and stay below the outer shelf. I took off and at 500 agl called approach and started my turn to avoid entering the airspace. They were pretty busy and didn’t respond and I kept my 180 degree turn and just nicked the airspace from what I could see on ForeFlight. I tried approach a few more times and finally got them when I was well clear of the inner circle and under the shelf.

So did I do wrong or Am I ok in that scenario since I called “as soon as practical” as per the far-aim? What is the correct way to handle this for a departure runway that is .7 sm from a surface class C area?
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Ya done fine. You had no requirement to call them at all, much less as soon as practical. That 1 mile radius notch around KXLL was cut into the C Surface Area to allow doing just what you did.
 
I appreciate the responses.

The thing is I turned pretty aggressively and still probably entered the class c that starts at the surface. I would have thought the airspace designers would have given more room. Makes me think I was supposed to call on the ground or call clearance delivery before taking off.

maybe there is a local procedure that I’m not aware of. Regardless sounds like I followed the right procedure so good to know for other class c areas.
 
Start the turn sooner, target a 25 degree bank angle, and delay accelerating until you are clear of the airspace boundary (to keep a tighter turn radius).
 
Sounds like you did just fine. But, maybe a better way, like Justin M mentions for Ocean City, the Chart Supplement listing for KXLL shows an Allentown clearance delivery radio frequency, and/or a telephone number (to be used if you can't contact CD by radio on the ground.) You'd call them prior to takeoff, they'd give you a squawk code, etc., just as if you were at the big airport. After takeoff, contacting departure controllers, they'd already know who you are and know you're coming.
 
Off 33? Having trained out of XLL (even when it was still 1N9) and ABE, Allentown approach isn't going to ding you for that from my experience. Plenty of low time students coming out of XLL "violate" that edge of the Charlie, and ABE keeps its own positively controlled traffic away from there knowing it. You'd have to be flying a 747 pattern to affect their 6/24 pattern.
 
Looking at the airport and cutout, I can see the dilemma. The way I read what you did is that you nicked the class C area running from the surface. Even though you tried, did you establish 2 way communication with ATC? It sounds like you did not before entering. I’d defer to those with explicit knowledge of the area and ATC’s response and probably nothing would come of it. But if it were me, I would fill out a NASA form just in case. Your input might cause the creation of a larger cutout for those runways or possibly a specific procedure or Notam for departing VFR aircraft. I know that at KBAF, for example, although there is a tower and ground/clearance delivery, the ATIS specifically gives info to obtain a squawk code with ground/clearance if your going to penetrate the Bradley class C. In the case of this non towered airport, there might be created info to contact a particular frequency before departure or a phone number for Allentown ATC to get that squawk code.
 
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Todd82 said:
Off 33? Having trained out of XLL (even when it was still 1N9) and ABE, Allentown approach isn't going to ding you for that from my experience. Plenty of low time students coming out of XLL "violate" that edge of the Charlie, and ABE keeps its own positively controlled traffic away from there knowing it. You'd have to be flying a 747 pattern to affect their 6/24 pattern.
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Took off from 07 actually....do folks call clearance delivery from the ground at XLL if they plan to go through the Charlie on their way out?
 
DaveInPA said:
Took off from 07 actually....do folks call clearance delivery from the ground at XLL if they plan to go through the Charlie on their way out?
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Typically VFR folks didn't. Off 7 and not flying closed traffic I always used to turn right as soon as safe and follow the interstate until I could raise approach or just stay low until clear. The interstate stays out of the inner ring.
 
Justin M said:
At Ocean City, NJ (26N) they have signs for the Clearance Delivery frequency for nearby Atlantic City. The signs also advise pilots to call them from the ground prior to departure.
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I fly in to KWWD quite a bit, which isn't too far from Ocean City. Since Ocean City is in Class E airspace, far from the KACY class C, wouldn't you only contact clearance delivery for an IFR flight? Hope thats the case because I've never contacted them, yet contacted the KACY approach upon leaving the traffic pattern, which is in class E.
 
jason gula said:
I fly in to KWWD quite a bit, which isn't too far from Ocean City. Since Ocean City is in Class E airspace, far from the KACY class C, wouldn't you only contact clearance delivery for an IFR flight? Hope thats the case because I've never contacted them, yet contacted the KACY approach upon leaving the traffic pattern, which is in class E.
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At pattern altitude, you're below the shelf and ACY class C surface area is 6nm away. Plenty of space to contact approach airborne for VFR services. The CD number is primarily for IFR releases.
 
Justin M said:
At Ocean City, NJ (26N) they have signs for the Clearance Delivery frequency for nearby Atlantic City. The signs also advise pilots to call them from the ground prior to departure.
Click to expand...

jason gula said:
I fly in to KWWD quite a bit, which isn't too far from Ocean City. Since Ocean City is in Class E airspace, far from the KACY class C, wouldn't you only contact clearance delivery for an IFR flight? Hope thats the case because I've never contacted them, yet contacted the KACY approach upon leaving the traffic pattern, which is in class E.
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Brad Z said:
At pattern altitude, you're below the shelf and ACY class C surface area is 6nm away. Plenty of space to contact approach airborne for VFR services. The CD number is primarily for IFR releases.
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I asked around the first time I departed 26N, and it isn't required to call KACY (Atlantic City, NJ) from the ground, it's just there as an option.

When I fly out of 26N (Ocean City, NJ), I'm usually headed North, so getting clearance through the KACY Charlie helps expedite my trip.

My point was that at 26N, you *can* call the Charlie from the ground prior to departure, and they have signs to facilitate, perhaps even encourage, it. 26N isn't as close as KXLL, but perhaps one can call approach prior to departure at KXLL too?
 
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