Class C airspace question

orange

orange

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
807
Location
Pennsylvania
Display Name
Display name:
Orange
I have a question about Class C airspace. During my checkride last week, the DPE and I departed KFRG as shown in the attachment (red line). The red rectangle is the north practice area. I contacted NY Approach for traffic advisories. But we did most of the airwork inside the blue oval that I drew, not over the water in the practice area. Most of it was inside the Islip (KISP) Class C. He said that since "we are talking to approach" we are cleared into the Charlie. A couple of times they did instruct us to stay at or below 2500 if they had a plane on approach, so I guess they were cool with it. I know that's the rule to be "cleared into Charlie", so I assume it would apply here. Correct? I only ask because when I practiced maneuvers with CFI's in the practice area we usually called Approach for advisories but they would still warn me about getting too close to the shore and busting Charlie.
 

Attachments

  • practice_area.jpg
    practice_area.jpg
    369.5 KB · Views: 79
It's "Clearned into the BRAVO"


C is like D, just need 2 way communication, but with the addition of Mode C.
 
orange said:
I have a question about Class C airspace. During my checkride last week, the DPE and I departed KFRG as shown in the attachment (red line). The red rectangle is the north practice area. I contacted NY Approach for traffic advisories. But we did most of the airwork inside the blue oval that I drew, not over the water in the practice area. Most of it was inside the Islip (KISP) Class C. He said that since "we are talking to approach" we are cleared into the Charlie. A couple of times they did instruct us to stay at or below 2500 if they had a plane on approach, so I guess they were cool with it. I know that's the rule to be "cleared into Charlie", so I assume it would apply here. Correct?
Click to expand...

Correct.

I only ask because when I practiced maneuvers with CFI's in the practice area we usually called Approach for advisories but they would still warn me about getting too close to the shore and busting Charlie.
Click to expand...

Who warned you about that? The CFIs or Approach?
 
orange said:
I have a question about Class C airspace. During my checkride last week, the DPE and I departed KFRG as shown in the attachment (red line). The red rectangle is the north practice area. I contacted NY Approach for traffic advisories. But we did most of the airwork inside the blue oval that I drew, not over the water in the practice area. Most of it was inside the Islip (KISP) Class C. He said that since "we are talking to approach" we are cleared into the Charlie. A couple of times they did instruct us to stay at or below 2500 if they had a plane on approach, so I guess they were cool with it. I know that's the rule to be "cleared into Charlie", so I assume it would apply here. Correct? I only ask because when I practiced maneuvers with CFI's in the practice area we usually called Approach for advisories but they would still warn me about getting too close to the shore and busting Charlie.
Click to expand...


Must be a slow Charlie airspace to allow airwork in their space... :dunno:
 
As long as you don't violate an ATC assigned restriction, like "remain outside of class Charlie" or "remain below 2,500 feet", once you've established radio communications with the controller you can enter the class C airspace and do whatever you told the controller you're planning to do.
 
Thanks for the confirmation. ISLIP can be pretty slow at times, so we got lucky.
 
If you're not sure you can always ask. Approach would probably also appreciate you letting them know your intentions.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
Brad Z said:
As long as you don't violate an ATC assigned restriction, like "remain outside of class Charlie" or "remain below 2,500 feet", once you've established radio communications with the controller you can enter the class C airspace and do whatever you told the controller you're planning to do.
Click to expand...

Class C services are provided in the Class C airspace area as well as the Outer Area outside of it. So if approach is providing services there's no reason for the blanket "remain outside of class Charlie" instruction.
 
N801BH said:
Must be a slow Charlie airspace to allow airwork in their space... :dunno:
Click to expand...

The only Class C airspace I'm aware of that doesn't allow air work is Oakland, and that's because it's a really short Class C (overlying Class B). I don't know if Beale AFB would like it much (there is a PFR overlying the Class C -- and there is no way I'm calling that temporary, even if the FAA does).

There is a real good spot southwest of San Jose, and Monterey really doesn't care what you do (as long as you don't turn before the highway on takeoff).

I've done aerial photo work (which looks a LOT like air work -- turns around a point, rectangular patterns, and steep turns) just northeast of the DER at San Jose for hours before.

Unless you're on an extended centerline or otherwise in the way, my experience with Class C is that they will let you do quite a lot.
 
Last edited:
roncachamp said:
Class C services are provided in the Class C airspace area as well as the Outer Area outside of it. So if approach is providing services there's no reason for the blanket "remain outside of class Charlie" instruction.
Click to expand...

What about if they don't have time to deal with you?
 
Sac Arrow said:
What about if they don't have time to deal with you?
Click to expand...

How would Approach be providing services, and simultaneously not have time to deal with you?

I've certainly been given the silent treatment before, at least outside Class C. But that's no services at all.
 
MAKG1 said:
How would Approach be providing services, and simultaneously not have time to deal with you?

I've certainly been given the silent treatment before, at least outside Class C. But that's no services at all.
Click to expand...

Question was directed to Roncachamp, I don't know the answer. I would think one option would be to remain silent, and the other option would be to remain clear. If they acknowledge, you're now in two way communication, and they can just tell you to go in when they are ready, vs. wondering if you are still on frequency.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Question was directed to Roncachamp, I don't know the answer. I would think one option would be to remain silent, and the other option would be to remain clear. If they acknowledge, you're now in two way communication, and they can just tell you to go in when they are ready, vs. wondering if you are still on frequency.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right.

I've been given "remain clear" instructions for Class C a few times.

Once was a real obvious workload issue (in retrospect) 'cause KSFO was abruptly closed due to a crash several minutes earlier.
 
orange said:
I only ask because when I practiced maneuvers with CFI's in the practice area we usually called Approach for advisories but they would still warn me about getting too close to the shore and busting Charlie.
Click to expand...

As others have said if you've established two way communications then you are fine. Granted they may not be thrilled if you're doing maneuvers in side the class C if it's busy, but if they want you to move they'll tell you. ISP is very quiet so you probably weren't bothering anyone.

As for the CFI's warning you previously, I can only assume they were doing this so you had good situational awareness of where the Class C boundaries were. The airspace around Long Island can be complex in spots so they likely didn't want you getting too complacent about flying inside the C without understanding that it was the C. Arriving into KFRG it would be really easy for someone not paying attention to clip into the corner of the C or on the south side bust the bit of the Bravo that comes down to 1,500 along the shoreline if they didn't understand the correct visual markers along the shoreline that outline where those bits of airspace begin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top