Class 3 - Sober 13 Years - No DUIs

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wjohnso3

Filing Flight Plan
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Wjohnso3
So in my early 20s I became part of the opioid epidimic after a knee surgery. I quickly went to rehab and have been abstinent ever since (13 years) from both drugs and alcohol. I am active in AA and also volunteer as a role model for the local drug court. I can get multiple people,judges,treatment center directors, etc. to substantiate this.

I did submit my medical and was deferred by the AME. I’m just curious what all I’m looking at to get cleared?

I have no arrest and a clear driving history less a speeding ticket or 2
 
Anticipate a denial with HIMS path option. Call a HIMS AME and get the process going. If above information is accurate then you can anticipate a special issuance. It will take patience; expect about 18 months if you can get those letters from peers validating your recovery and meeting attendance.

pm coming
 
Thanks for the response.

I’ve also been curious on what HIMS programs that will/ won’t be required?

After I get a SI will I ever have to go through any of this again? What is basic med?
 
wjohnso3 said:
Thanks for the response.

I’ve also been curious on what HIMS programs that will/ won’t be required?

After I get a SI will I ever have to go through any of this again? What is basic med?
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After issuance, you’ll have to comply with the SI requirements until the medical is not valid for any class after date. Once issued, you can also go down the Basic Med path. Basic Med allows qualified persons to operate without an FAA medical certificate; there are some limits but for most non-professional aviators, it is non-constraining.

 
wjohnso3 said:
Thanks for the response.

I’ve also been curious on what HIMS programs that will/ won’t be required?

After I get a SI will I ever have to go through any of this again? What is basic med?
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You will likely be in the HIMS program for 8 years with decreasing requirements after a period of years. If you are just going for a class 3 and no aspirations to fly in the flight levels or aircraft over 6,000lbs/ 6 seats, then Basic Med is your daddy. As mentioned, you must fulfill the requirements of your SI until it expires; it is renewed every 6 months. At that point you will have held a Class 3 medical certificate which has not been revoked, just expired, and you qualify for Basic Med.
 
robin ardoin said:
You will likely be in the HIMS program for 8 years with decreasing requirements after a period of years. If you are just going for a class 3 and no aspirations to fly in the flight levels or aircraft over 6,000lbs/ 6 seats, then Basic Med is your daddy. As mentioned, you must fulfill the requirements of your SI until it expires; it is renewed every 6 months. At that point you will have held a Class 3 medical certificate which has not been revoked, just expired, and you qualify for Basic Med.
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Even with basic med I’ll still have to be in HIMS? Also with 13 years sobriety?

I have no aspirations for commercial or anything larger than 6 seats
 
wjohnso3 said:
Even with basic med I’ll still have to be in HIMS? Also with 13 years sobriety?

I have no aspirations for commercial or anything larger than 6 seats
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Basic Med will be in lieu of an FAA medical certificate, SI or a standard cert. You can only get Basic Med after having held a medical cert (1,2,3) and not having had it revoked. Once you get your SI, let it expire at 6 months (ie, do not let the HIMS AME reissue it for another 6 mos) and transition to Basic Med. The process can start while you have your class 3 SI so once the SI expires you are good to go. Do some reading on the Basic Med program.
 
wjohnso3 said:
Even with basic med I’ll still have to be in HIMS? Also with 13 years sobriety?

I have no aspirations for commercial or anything larger than 6 seats
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Once the SI medical is no longer valid, there’s no requirement to maintain it. Be careful with this as AME office staff may ‘helpfully’ and proactively send information to the FAA to prepare for your renewal. At that point, the FAA may consider an application for renewal has been initiated; failure to follow thru results with a denial and Basic Med goes poof.

You may consider if Sport Pilot certificate is a better option for you unless your goal is professional flying; if pro piloting is your goal, forget about dropping the SI.
 
robin ardoin said:
Once you get your SI, let it expire at 6 months (ie, do not let the HIMS AME reissue it for another 6 mos) and transition to Basic Med. The process can start while you have your class 3 SI so once the SI expires you are good to go.
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Careful. Don't assume a 6-month cutoff. You have to let the medical certificate itself expire, and you have to continue to maintain the SI until that happens. See what the "not valid after" date on the certificate is. It might be longer than the SI validity. If you don't continue to fulfill the SI obligations while the medical certificate is valid, the FAA can revoke the certificate, thereby taking Basic Med off the table.

@Brad Z is POA's FAA insider and knows far more than I do about Basic Med. He can explain all this in greater detail.

And, yes, you can get Basic Med done while the Class 3 is still active. In fact, Dr Bruce advised me to get Basic immediately after I got my SI Class 3. The Basic Med doc will feel better about approving your application while the ink is still wet on your Class 3 and he knows the FAA certified you as healthy enough to fly just days before he does the Basic Med exam.
 
TCABM said:
You may consider if Sport Pilot certificate is a better option for you...
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:yeahthat:

@wjohnso3 , Sport Pilot has greater restrictions on the types of aircraft and flight conditions than Basic Med, but Sport requires no medical other than a valid driver's license. You wouldn't have to fool around with AMEs and SIs and HIMS at all. You'd be limited to only one passenger and daytime VFR, but you could fly anywhere in the US and the Bahamas. Many pilots find Sport to be completely adequate.
 
Half Fast said:
:yeahthat:

@wjohnso3 , Sport Pilot has greater restrictions on the types of aircraft and flight conditions than Basic Med, but Sport requires no medical other than a valid driver's license. You wouldn't have to fool around with AMEs and SIs and HIMS at all. You'd be limited to only one passenger and daytime VFR, but you could fly anywhere in the US and the Bahamas. Many pilots find Sport to be completely adequate.
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I missed that OP already submitted an application. He’s stuck for now.
 
As a matter of discussion, why even self report this at all from 13 yrs ago?
 
4RNB said:
As a matter of discussion, why even self report this at all from 13 yrs ago?
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My issue was 30 years ago…but discoverable on insurance. I was not going to roll the dice even if ethics didn’t influence my decision to report. My issuance was delayed 18 months but I like never having to look over my shoulder. Life is much more fulfilling this way.
 
Half Fast said:
Careful. Don't assume a 6-month cutoff. You have to let the medical certificate itself expire, and you have to continue to maintain the SI until that happens. See what the "not valid after" date on the certificate is. It might be longer than the SI validity. If you don't continue to fulfill the SI obligations while the medical certificate is valid, the FAA can revoke the certificate, thereby taking Basic Med off the table.

@Brad Z is POA's FAA insider and knows far more than I do about Basic Med. He can explain all this in greater detail.

And, yes, you can get Basic Med done while the Class 3 is still active. In fact, Dr Bruce advised me to get Basic immediately after I got my SI Class 3. The Basic Med doc will feel better about approving your application while the ink is still wet on your Class 3 and he knows the FAA certified you as healthy enough to fly just days before he does the Basic Med exam.
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I've got nothing much to add. Everyone else pretty much nailed it. As a general comment, I would make sure you let the HIMS AME you're working with know that you're opting to not renew the medical after the medical expires and if you get a letter from OKC, respond that you don't desire to renew the medical certificate. This prevents any confusion regarding your compliance with the HIMS program.

Last thing I'll add as a general comment to others who may stumble over this thread in the future: BasicMed is not a means to fly aircraft while battling substance issues. The FAA has access to your motor vehicle violations (you agree to NDR releases) and you are also prohibited from operating an aircraft with a medical deficiency (see 61.53) which includes substance issues. Put simply...if you've had issues in the past, get them resolved, get your medica and do the monitoring, and if you do go BasicMed, do what you need to do to continue on the straight and narrow.
 
Are there examples where things from 13 or 30 years ago were brought to light through some method other than self disclosure that impacted an FAA license?
 
4RNB:
accidents
incidents
Hot line calls (GF/paramour, who's upset with you....)
Call attention to yourself in any way....
...and remember you insurance voids if they find out that you never complied ("in accordance with all FAA rules" clause)....

To the OP: It's at least abuse (the second even iis, by part 67 definition). It could be 40 years ago for what FAA cares. The definition is the definition.

See 67.107 and 67.307.
 
bbchien said:
4RNB:
accidents
incidents
Hot line calls (GF/paramour, who's upset with you....)
Call attention to yourself in any way....
...and remember you insurance voids if they find out that you never complied ("in accordance with all FAA rules" clause)....

To the OP: It's at least abuse (the second even iis, by part 67 definition). It could be 40 years ago for what FAA cares. The definition is the definition.

See 67.107 and 67.307.
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In the broad scheme of things, I'd classify those in a self disclosure category as opposed to investigatory findings.

Even if one called attention to themselves, akin to buzzing a house of someone you have a restraining order against, if that guy was addicted to oxy 20 some years before, would that even be looked for?

If this is in an FAA file, it is there because they told the FAA. If it is in current medical charts, it is there because the patient told the physician. If it is in a job application, it is there because the applicant told the organization.

At some point, it just seems reasonable to shut up about it.

I'm not advocating one do such things, nor do I want to engage in debate about the ethical or moral values around such a thing, but there are times in life where absolute honesty injures people, creates suffering, and thus ought be utilized accordingly.
 
4RNB said:
In the broad scheme of things, I'd classify those in a self disclosure category as opposed to investigatory findings.

Even if one called attention to themselves, akin to buzzing a house of someone you have a restraining order against, if that guy was addicted to oxy 20 some years before, would that even be looked for?

If this is in an FAA file, it is there because they told the FAA. If it is in current medical charts, it is there because the patient told the physician. If it is in a job application, it is there because the applicant told the organization.

At some point, it just seems reasonable to shut up about it.

I'm not advocating one do such things, nor do I want to engage in debate about the ethical or moral values around such a thing, but there are times in life where absolute honesty injures people, creates suffering, and thus ought be utilized accordingly.
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If insurance was ever used for any treatment the FAA will know.
 
4RNB said:
…Interesting examples, but they all read as if they are ongoing issues, not what the OP stated.
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Solid misunderstanding of the issue. The investigation isn’t about currently receiving disability payments. It’s about pilots who failed to disclose to the FAA those disability decisions at the time of their application for an FAA medical.

FAA cross-referenced VA data and found the discrepancies. There’s also a member here you can read about in FAA v Cooper. Made it all the way to SCOTUS over a Privacy Act violation.
 
TCABM said:
Solid misunderstanding of the issue. The investigation isn’t about currently receiving disability payments. It’s about pilots who failed to disclose to the FAA those disability decisions at the time of their application for an FAA medical.

FAA cross-referenced VA data and found the discrepancies. There’s also a member here you can read about in FAA v Cooper. Made it all the way to SCOTUS over a Privacy Act violation.
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BTW, anybody heard from Stan? He hasn’t posted in a loooong time. I tried PMing him a while back. No response. Hope he’s okay.
 
4RNB said:
I'm not advocating one do such things, nor do I want to engage in debate about the ethical or moral values around such a thing, but there are times in life where absolute honesty injures people, creates suffering, and thus ought be utilized accordingly.
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True, and creates a dilemma. It was suggested to me to not report but I did not heed that advice. I had a life insurance denial based upon codes filed 20+ years prior and I know the FAA has access to the same information. In my case myself, nor my family, is financially dependant upon my ability to get a medical certificate; I am doing this for pleasure and convenience. The only person potentially harmed was me. The harm created by lying (not reporting) would be immediate to me in the form of stress and potential serious future consequences if the FAA discovered my intentional deception. Then all kind of $hi+ would rain down on me and my family financially as I would lose licenses and certifications required to produce income.
 
Same as what robin said above for me.

I was hoping to get involved with HIMS before I got my letter. The couple I’ve talked to don’t do it. Was I misunderstanding in assuming I could do that?
 
wjohnso3 said:
Same as what robin said above for me.

I was hoping to get involved with HIMS before I got my letter. The couple I’ve talked to don’t do it. Was I misunderstanding in assuming I could do that?
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The decision criteria his here: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DrugUseDispositionTable.pdf

Records gathering, recovery support participation, proof of abstinence (if required) can all be done prior to submitting your app to an HIMS AME. Oversight/directed participation only comes after SI apporval.
 
wjohnso3 said:
Same as what robin said above for me.

I was hoping to get involved with HIMS before I got my letter. The couple I’ve talked to don’t do it. Was I misunderstanding in assuming I could do that?
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Some will engage on a consultory basis prior to the denial and some won't. As @TCABM mentions, what is required is published and one can work on gathering that information prior getting the HIMS option letter with the denial and engaging services of the HIMS AME. I don't know how one would go about getting random urinalysis that would be acceptable to the FAA prior to having HIMS on board. I got my HIMS psych eval done after the deferral and prior to getting the denial and the FAA allowed it.
 
TCABM said:
Numerous labs offer this service.
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Would they provide the process to get the call to go in for a test and accumulate the results for use later? I was not aware that I could have arranged it or if the FAA would accept the results as part of the HIMS protocol. That would be helpful to applicants if so.
 
robin ardoin said:
Would they provide the process to get the call to go in for a test and accumulate the results for use later? I was not aware that I could have arranged it or if the FAA would accept the results as part of the HIMS protocol. That would be helpful to applicants if so.
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Yes and and usually yes.
 
4RNB said:
How?
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The FAA has access to the insurance database maintained under the electronic records requirement of the federal healthcare law passed a couple years ago. Your application for a medical is also a release for them to go looking.

If you don’t disclose everything it’s treated as an intentional omission. Guilty until proven innocent. It’s administrative law so there is an official presumption of guilt.

I know you stated you are not omitting on your application but anyone that does is working on the f around and find out plot.
 
wjohnso3 said:
Same
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Lab-wise, if you’re thinking of Quest and Labcorp, they likely are the labs behind the service providers. I should have worded that better. For example, RGV Credibility Assessment Center will execute a random test program for private clients in South Texas.

A lot of private investigation agencies that do workplace background investigations offer the service. Optionally, your PCM may he able to refer a service for you.

Page 2 lists accredited labs.

 
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Interesting. The company that handles my randoms isn’t on that list.
 
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