Class 2 with Felony Conviction

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Good afternoon!

I recently (just over a year ago) went through a really though period with my ex-girlfriend. Caught her cheating, said some things that maybe I shouldn't off (no threats against her, just something else) but she had a protective order placed against me. Went to court but all they mentioned was that the case was going to be evaluated for temporary or permanent designation 6 months later. I am a gun enthusiast and went to purchase a competition specific firearm thinking the PO was not active and I was moving to another state a couple of days later. While filling out the paperwork, I marked that I wasn't under any protective order at the time (which I thought I wasnt). That night, I was picked up at my house and did 8 months in jail and now have a felony conviction :(.

While filling out the paperwork for my Class 2 medical, I see the question regarding felonies. Obviously, I have to disclose my case since the conviction was for "False Statement on a Firearms Purchase Consent Form".

I retired a couple of years ago from the Army as a LTC, Master Aviator with over 5000 accident/incident free flight hours, Aviation Safety Officer and AVN Accident Investigator. Is this going to deny my medical certificate indefinitely or is there a chance of me getting this ticket and continuing my aviation career in the civilian world? Thanks for any advice and suggestions given!!!
 
rk911 said:
:popcorn:
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More like....

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OP, this will likely be a tough one, but let's allow the POA medical staff to weigh in.

Paging @bbchien @lbfjrmd @WingmanMed

Doctors, this gentleman could use your wise counsel.
 
Unknown said:
....and continuing my aviation career in the civilian world?
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BTW, the answer to that question doesn't end with the medical certificate. You may also have difficulty finding aviation employment with a federal firearms conviction. You won't be able to get a security clearance, and you may have difficulty getting access to some areas. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn you'd be prohibited from flying certain types of cargo.
 
8 months in jail? Not sure that the punishment fits the crime.

Plenty of people in the south side here buy a gun without any paperwork, they rarely get picked up. But you did the paperwork and got picked up. Not sure why the background check didn’t fail if they didn’t want you to have a gun.

Another win for the bad guys and a kick in the stomach for the law abiding folk.
 
Maybe the FAA will have to relax standards like the military did regarding tattoos to meet recruiting numbers. As they try and cast a wider net for more diverse pilots they might run into the felony/drug/firearm/medical hurdle more often?
 
FatherPilot said:
Maybe the FAA will have to relax standards like the military did regarding tattoos to meet recruiting numbers. As they try and cast a wider net for more diverse pilots they might run into the felony/drug/firearm/medical hurdle more often?
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He's already a retired Lt Col, according to the first post.
 
I would consult with an AME versed in such matters.

Yeah, that can be a minefield, EX’s & so forth, not saying which side the blame lies. The one guy I hunt with is limited to bow only, no guns. In his younger days he got tangled up with an EX.

I had a girl who was drinking on head meds, trying to get me to hit her, instigating. I was stone cold sober. I had warned her before, dialed 911. Later she called me a wuss for being ‘unable to handle her’.

The smarter fox avoids the trap set on the trail.
 
mandm said:
8 months in jail? Not sure that the punishment fits the crime.

Plenty of people in the south side here buy a gun without any paperwork, they rarely get picked up. But you did the paperwork and got picked up. Not sure why the background check didn’t fail if they didn’t want you to have a gun.

Another win for the bad guys and a kick in the stomach for the law abiding folk.
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He did fail the background check, that's why they arrested him. But in between the arrest and 8 months in jail, there was an opportunity to explain this "misunderstanding," a trial or plea bargain, and a conviction. Presumably a lawyer was involved as well, who should have explained a bunch of stuff.....

Back to the OP's present dilemma: There's no "good character" requirement for a second class medical, but the FAA and your AME will be looking for any signs that these events may evidence you have mental health or substance-abuse issues. When you provide all of the records related to these events, will they find any such evidence?
 
Half Fast said:
BTW, the answer to that question doesn't end with the medical certificate. You may also have difficulty finding aviation employment with a federal firearms conviction. You won't be able to get a security clearance, and you may have difficulty getting access to some areas. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn you'd be prohibited from flying certain types of cargo.
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My security clearance was never revoked. But indeed, it can still happen.
 
mandm said:
8 months in jail? Not sure that the punishment fits the crime.

Plenty of people in the south side here buy a gun without any paperwork, they rarely get picked up. But you did the paperwork and got picked up. Not sure why the background check didn’t fail if they didn’t want you to have a gun.

Another win for the bad guys and a kick in the stomach for the law abiding folk.
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Tell me about it! This was not a kick in the stomach but a kick in the balls.

Why would I go through all the trouble of legally purchasing a "$2700 competition specific" firearm if I knew I was restricted or was to use it on a crime. BTW, I already had in my possession 10 guns and 4 rifles as my concealed carry permit was never revoked in court.
 
Lindberg said:
He did fail the background check, that's why they arrested him. But in between the arrest and 8 months in jail, there was an opportunity to explain this "misunderstanding," a trial or plea bargain, and a conviction. Presumably a lawyer was involved as well, who should have explained a bunch of stuff.....

Back to the OP's present dilemma: There's no "good character" requirement for a second class medical, but the FAA and your AME will be looking for any signs that these events may evidence you have mental health or substance-abuse issues. When you provide all of the records related to these events, will they find any such evidence?
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yes, fired my lawyer since he basically just wanted more and more money for nothing. Went with PD and took a plea. Dont have any substance abuse of any kind and have been cleared from any mental health issues by Psych evals.
 
Unknown said:
Good afternoon!

I recently (just over a year ago) went through a really though period with my ex-girlfriend. Caught her cheating, said some things that maybe I shouldn't off (no threats against her, just something else) but she had a protective order placed against me. Went to court but all they mentioned was that the case was going to be evaluated for temporary or permanent designation 6 months later. I am a gun enthusiast and went to purchase a competition specific firearm thinking the PO was not active and I was moving to another state a couple of days later. While filling out the paperwork, I marked that I wasn't under any protective order at the time (which I thought I wasnt). That night, I was picked up at my house and did 8 months in jail and now have a felony conviction :(.

While filling out the paperwork for my Class 2 medical, I see the question regarding felonies. Obviously, I have to disclose my case since the conviction was for "False Statement on a Firearms Purchase Consent Form".

I retired a couple of years ago from the Army as a LTC, Master Aviator with over 5000 accident/incident free flight hours, Aviation Safety Officer and AVN Accident Investigator. Is this going to deny my medical certificate indefinitely or is there a chance of me getting this ticket and continuing my aviation career in the civilian world? Thanks for any advice and suggestions given!!!
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She had a protective order placed against me, the case was going to be evaluated for temporary or permanent designation 6 months later, tried to buy a gun anyway and lied on the form. (Like an avid gun guy doesn’t know you a PO prohibits a gun purchase)

Yes, you need some eval before issuing you a medical cert because your thought processes are not normal.
 
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mandm said:
8 months in jail? Not sure that the punishment fits the crime.

Plenty of people in the south side here buy a gun without any paperwork, they rarely get picked up. But you did the paperwork and got picked up. Not sure why the background check didn’t fail if they didn’t want you to have a gun.

Another win for the bad guys and a kick in the stomach for the law abiding folk.
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Are you saying the OP is "the law abiding folk"?
 
unknown said:
My security clearance was never revoked. But indeed, it can still happen.
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If the incident occurred after you retired, you’d have no idea what action the USG took on your clearance eligibility unless you were in a role that required the clearance. If you were in one of those roles, you’d also know what you would have had to report to your security manager along the way.
 
mandm said:
Another win for the bad guys and a kick in the stomach for the law abiding folk.
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really ???? Because it sure sounds like he violated the law which is the cause that sent him to prison. . . If he abided by the law, he wouldnt have had the conviction or the jailtime.
 
"Good Character" is on the list for a Commercial, IIRC.

As for security clearances....depends entirely on the Department (DOD, DOT, DHS, etc) or Other TLA, and the category (C, S, TS, TS with tickets, SSBI, and so on thru the alphabet). The objective is honesty. If you admit, then that's ok in many situations. If you hide anything, well, "Would you like fries with that?"

I have a very good friend who admitted to trying coke once when very young (and repeated drug tests confirmed nothing in the previous years) and still got a DOD TS/tickets.

Of course things may have changed, since I've been out of that world for quite some time (and have no interest in going back).
 
mandm said:
8 months in jail? Not sure that the punishment fits the crime.

Plenty of people in the south side here buy a gun without any paperwork, they rarely get picked up. But you did the paperwork and got picked up. Not sure why the background check didn’t fail if they didn’t want you to have a gun.

Another win for the bad guys and a kick in the stomach for the law abiding folk.
Click to expand...
Lying on official US government forms makes a person a law abiding good guy in the south?
 
murphey said:
I have a very good friend who admitted to trying coke once when very young (and repeated drug tests confirmed nothing in the previous years) and still got a DOD TS/tickets.
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That's a bit different, especially since it sounds like the cocaine was many years in his past and he had years of clean tests. Getting a recent felony firearms conviction where the crime was falsifying a federal form would probably be a bit tougher for a clearance.

No way to know, but I strongly suspect getting a firearms felony bust would have cost me my TS, and I'm virtually certain I would have lost access to special programs.
 
If I had a protective order against me, I would make darn sure that I knew whether it was in effect before I answered a question about it on an official form.
 
Palmpilot said:
If I had a protective order against me, I would make darn sure that I knew whether it was in effect before I answered a question about it on an official form.
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What would you do if you knew it wasn’t active, but you were wrong?
 
bflynn said:
What would you do if you knew it wasn’t active, but you were wrong?
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If I was wrong, then I didn't actually know that it wasn't active.

Are you saying that there's no way to find out for sure? No official record that I could obtain a copy of?
 
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Half Fast said:
Sure there is. Buy a gun.
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In case it wasn't clear, I was talking about finding out for sure BEFORE answering a question about it on a form that's required in order to buy a gun. If I couldn't obtain official documentary evidence as to whether the order was still in effect, then I wouldn't fill out such a form. Would you?
 
Palmpilot said:
If I was wrong, then I didn't actually know that it wasn't active.

Are you saying that there's no way to find out for sure? No official record that I could obtain a copy of?
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I’m saying it possible to misunderstand your status. In retrospect, it’s easy to say you’d never make the same mistake, but that isn’t starting from the same point.

after all, I’ll NEVER run out of gas or stall/spin doing the impossible turn, just like every pilot who has.
 
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That 8 month jail time may represent the difference between "I didn't know it was still active" and "I knew it was still active but answered no anyway."
 
bflynn said:
I’m saying it possible to misunderstand your status. In retrospect, it’s easy to say you’d never make the same mistake, but that isn’t starting from the same point.

after all, I’ll NEVER run out of gas or stall/spin doing the impossible turn, just like every pilot who has.
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I'm not claiming to be infallible. I'm just saying that I would make the effort to obtain the official documents that were relevant.
 
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