Citizen verification documents (Part 1552.3h)

LifeAsBen

LifeAsBen

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LifeAsBen
My flight school requires a passport AND government issued photo ID to demonstrate U.S. citizenship. The way I read 49 CFR Part 1552.3(h) is only ONE of the listed items is needed to show proof of citizenship. Am I wrong?

I cannot find an TSA interpretation on the matter, but I have found multiple sources that reflect my opinion including the AOPA, listed below:
 
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The answer is in your first link
Proof of citizenship. Student must show evidence of U.S. citizenship to instructor with one of the following:
  • Valid, unexpired U.S. passport
  • Original or government-issued birth certificate of the U.S., American Samoa, or Swains Island AND a government-issued picture ID
  • Original certificate of birth abroad with raised seal (Form FS-545 or DS-1350) AND a government-issued picture ID
  • Original certificate of U.S. citizenship with raised seal (Form N-560 or N-561) or a Certificate of Repatriation (Form N-581) AND government-issued pictured ID
  • Original U.S. Naturalization Certificate with raised seal (Form N-550 or N-570) AND a government-issued picture ID
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*edit, didn't read closely the first time. Looks like passport should be fine but why worry about it? Just show them both and avoid the argument.
 
I just started flight school so I had to go through the same process. Not sure I agree with your take. The CFR only establishes the bare minimum that a flight school must obtain for eligibility as a student pilot, in your case as a US citizen. But subsection (h) does not also serve as a prohibition on ordinary business practices that go beyond the passport, such as requiring your driver's license.

There might be a semantics issue here. The flight school might be telling customers that they need both a passport AND a separate government ID "to demonstrate U.S. citizenship." Well, not according to the FAA, to your point. But that still doesn't mean that the school can't require the second ID.
 
What if someone doesn’t have a government ID?
 
More than likely there’s a certain amount of Ignorance at play here...everything EXCEPT a passport requires additional photo ID, so the lowest common denominator requires it for everyone.

OP...tell them you’ll only give them one document at a time. Give them your passport for citizenship verification, and when they hand it back to you, give it to them as your government-issued ID. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
More than likely there’s a certain amount of Ignorance at play here...everything EXCEPT a passport requires additional photo ID, so the lowest common denominator requires it for everyone.

OP...tell them you’ll only give them one document at a time. Give them your passport for citizenship verification, and when they hand it back to you, give it to them as your government-issued ID. ;)
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HAHAHA Brilliant!

BTW I'm a CFI...this isn't about me so much as it is to settle an office kerfuffle wherein I ask the office admin every time why my new student has to provide both a valid US passport and a license.
 
LifeAsBen said:
HAHAHA Brilliant!

BTW I'm a CFI...this isn't about me so much as it is to settle an office kerfuffle wherein I ask the office admin every time why my new student has to provide both a valid US passport and a license.
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I would suggest to the flight school that they simply clarify their procedure, because it's confusing and not consistent with the CFRs. If they want to request a second ID for business reasons, fine. But only the US passport is required to prove citizenship, so it's not really correct to tell customers that the passport plus the second ID constitute proof of citizenship.
 
bflynn said:
What if someone doesn’t have a government ID?
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Flight schools are private businesses, so they do have the discretion to insist on a government ID (in addition to a passport). If a customer doesn't want to produce it, the school could decline to accept them as a student. It does seem silly but there's no law preventing this scenario, assuming the school consistently implements the requirement for all customers.
 
Sudburian said:
Flight schools are private businesses, so they do have the discretion to insist on a government ID (in addition to a passport). If a customer doesn't want to produce it, the school could decline to accept them as a student. It does seem silly but there's no law preventing this scenario, assuming the school consistently implements the requirement for all customers.
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There was a element of sarcasm in my post. You need an ID for everything in the US, right?
 
Won't be an issue once you get your 5G tracking chip in a vaccination... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Sudburian said:
Flight schools are private businesses, so they do have the discretion to insist on a government ID (in addition to a passport)....there's no law preventing this scenario,
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I would suggest that it’s illegal not to accept a valid passport as a government-issued photo ID.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I would suggest that it’s illegal not to accept a valid passport as a government-issued photo ID.
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I thought about this but couldn't think of a reason why. A passport does by the authority of the Department of State have a certain force of law. But a private business isn't an immigration official or a foreign government (bound by treaties). It may want a driver's license to verify a local address. There's no law stopping it from doing that.

bflynn said:
There was a element of sarcasm in my post. You need an ID for everything in the US, right?
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Sorry, that went right over my head!

Morgan3820 said:
Yes, everything. Except for voting. But whose counting.
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I didn't realize buying socks at Walmart was a constitutional right.
 
Sudburian said:
I thought about this but couldn't think of a reason why. A passport does by the authority of the Department of State have a certain force of law. But a private business isn't an immigration official or a foreign government (bound by treaties). It may want a driver's license to verify a local address. There's no law stopping it from doing that.
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But in this case, it appears they’re requiring it to comply with federal regulation, and they’re not accepting a photo ID that is specifically allowed by the the government that requires it.
 
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Sudburian said:
I didn't realize buying socks at Walmart was a constitutional right.
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You would agree that it's a privilege to buy socks, right? Perhaps not from Walmart, but that's a personal judgement.

There is a constitutional amendment which prevents abridging the privileges of citizens, but I suspect most people don't take that prohibition against abridging any more seriously than the other one.
 
The FAA doesn’t require the proof of citizenship prior to initiation of flight instruction.
It’s the TSA !
That’s why OP couldn’t find the requirements in the FAR’s.
(Hint, It’s in in a different title in the CFR’s (code of federal regulations) 49 CFR 1552).
Has no one here taken the required training but me?
The actual requirement is to provide either a U.S. passport OR U.S. birth certificate issued by a State, and in the case of a birth certificate, additional photo ID. (Birth certificates don’t have recent photos, PP’s do....).
Again, it’s the TSA, not FAA...
You know!, the friendly, patient, “greeters” at the commercial terminal!
 
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Odd. I had to show the original birth cert to get the passport.
 
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