Citation Down Into Percy Priest Lake After Takeoff From Syrna MQY

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FlyingElvii

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flyingElvii
Crash was just after 11am. Cessna Citation registered to a local Media Production Company owned by Gwen Shamblin, weight-loss instructor to the Stars, and a quasi media personality herself.

Was bound for Hilton Head. Weather here is cool, gusty, and low ceilings today. Local TV 5 has a live feed of the search on Fakebook.

https://www.wsmv.com/news/cessna-c5...cle_03eb9268-c0a4-11eb-8275-2344565cd3b1.html

First press conference.
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/plane-crash-reported-on-percy-priest-lake-in-smyrna
 
FlyingElvii said:
Crash was just after 11am. Cessna Citation registered to a local Media Production Company owned by Gwen Shamblin, weight-loss instructor to the Stars, and a quasi media personality herself. Husband is Joe Lara, who played Tarzan in both the movie, and the recent series.

Was bound for Hilton Head. Weather here is cool, gusty, and low ceilings today. Local TV 5 has a live feed of the search on Fakebook.

https://www.wsmv.com/news/cessna-c5...cle_03eb9268-c0a4-11eb-8275-2344565cd3b1.html

First press conference.
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/plane-crash-reported-on-percy-priest-lake-in-smyrna
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Tennessean reports Joe Lara last medical in 2017, according to FAA.
 
Small plane...cessna 501 jet. Guess if it’s at least A320 or B 737, it don’t count. Joe Lara might be best described as the B and C movie/tv actor.
 
Of course not having a current medical doesn't make him incapable of flying the plane. Wonder if he was rated for the Citation though. I know it says the other pilot wasn't. It seems it would be flown regularly. So was he the primary pilot when they flew or did they have someone else fly the plane most of the time? Also an 'alarm' on the recording between them and ATC, so probably the stall warning horn.
 
If the pilot had a helicopter license would they be cleared to fly a small jet like this? (I’ve known him to fly one.)

what I’m the world could cause rapid a decent like this? I know the plane was regularly maintenanced.
 
Seth Jackson said:
If the pilot had a helicopter license would they be cleared to fly a small jet like this? (I’ve known him to fly one.)

what I’m the world could cause rapid a decent like this? I know the plane was regularly maintenanced.
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helicopter “licenses” are entirely different. Steep descents can happen a number of ways. I’m sure the NTSB will tell us soon.
 
luvflyin said:
What are igniters?
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Engine igniters which are found on turbine engines. This is what ignites the fuel/air combination to start the engine. Once started the igniters are switched off.

On turbine powered aircraft depending upon model you want the igniters on when entering precipitation or icing conditions, or other situations as required by the FOM.
 
Seth Jackson said:
If the pilot had a helicopter license would they be cleared to fly a small jet like this? (I’ve known him to fly one.)

what I’m the world could cause rapid a decent like this? I know the plane was regularly maintenanced.
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Seth, flying a helicopter is a completely different skill from flying a jet. So no, he would not have been cleared to fly a jet with his helicopter license, if he had one. Do you know someone who perished on this airplane? If so, sorry for your loss.

Flying this jet required a special rating, which the pilot had. It also requires a medical certificate, which he may or may not have had. That would just make the flight illegal, but may be a clue as to whether the pilot followed rules or took shortcuts.

There will be a lot of speculation on this crash. The rapid descent could have been caused by a number of things, pilot incapacitation, pilot inexperience, mechanical issue or a fatal mistake. Hopefully the ntsb can find a cause, but it will take a few years most likely.

Pilots who fly jets usually are very experienced pilots, we really don't know what level experience this pilot had.

These accidents are very sad and affect the general aviation community greatly, no one wants to see this happen and we want to find out the reason it happened so we can learn from it and hopefully prevent this type of accident in the future.
 
Seth Jackson said:
If the pilot had a helicopter license would they be cleared to fly a small jet like this? (I’ve known him to fly one.)

what I’m the world could cause rapid a decent like this? I know the plane was regularly maintenanced.
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Each jet requires a separate rating, which he had. He also had a rotorcraft rating. Everything but a current medical.
 
Doc Holliday said:
How so? Can’t someone be dual rated in both fixed wing and rotary wing?
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Yes, but having a rotorcraft rating does not qualify anybody to get in a airplane. Which was the answer to the question asked.
 
Bell206 said:
Think of them as overbuilt spark plugs as they work on the same principal.
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Got it. Doesn’t seem like you’d hear them in the cockpit. Is there an aural alarm that is on when they are? Or an alarm when they are selected but aren’t working? Or one that goes of if they should be selected but aren’t?
 
luvflyin said:
Doesn’t seem like you’d hear them in the cockpit. Is there an aural alarm that is on when they are? Or an alarm when they are selected but aren’t working? Or one that goes of if they should be selected but aren’t?
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You wouldn't hear the actual igniters popping but depending on the system there usually is some type of advisory in the cockpit if they on outside the start sequence. I don't know about the Citation but some igniter systems allow you to arm the system and they will automatically turn on when certain conditions are met. Or as mentioned required to be on in certain environmental conditions.
 
luvflyin said:
Got it. Doesn’t seem like you’d hear them in the cockpit. Is there an aural alarm that is on when they are? Or an alarm when they are selected but aren’t working? Or one that goes of if they should be selected but aren’t?
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The ignitors can produce interference in the audio panel or radios. That's what you are hearing.
 
There is no “alarm” sound as the media has written about. I’m not an electrical engineer so I I can only describe it as caused by the igniters bleeding through the radio transmissions, as many Citation pilots will tell you. The igniters were probably turned on during departure as a precaution because of temperatures and moisture content in the lower altitudes he was entering after takeoff. That’s the least of the clues as to what happened.

Someone upthread said they knew it was regularly maintained. What more do you know? Was it equipped with the original instrument panel (as depicted in some pictures) of was it upgraded to glass?

Someone asked what would cause such a rapid descent? Loss of control due to poor instrument skills, loss of control due to partial panel (think failed attitude indicator), loss of control due to failed trim system, or whatever else. It could have been recoverable until an over speed occurred and something else failed. With the speed of investigations lately, it will be a LONG time before we know anything. Unless it was equipped with a voice recorder, they find it, it his good sound on it, and it gets into a prelim report.
 
MrAnderson said:
Yes, but having a rotorcraft rating does not qualify anybody to get in a airplane. Which was the answer to the question asked.
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Guess I don’t follow you.

Technically a rotorcraft only can fly an airplane without being rated (and vice versa) by operating as a student with proper endorsements.

But we are discussing a type rated jet that has to have at a minimum a PPL MEL and a type rating to be PIC.

And I haven’t looked to see who was rated in what. Like I said earlier, never heard of these people.
 
luvflyin said:
Got it. Doesn’t seem like you’d hear them in the cockpit. Is there an aural alarm that is on when they are? Or an alarm when they are selected but aren’t working? Or one that goes of if they should be selected but aren’t?
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You know how on some airplanes you can hear the strobes through your headset? Igniters can have the same effect. Ours sound like a fast-moving siren, probably sweeping up and down maybe 3-4x/second.

Dunno about the accident aircraft, but we get a CAS message ("IGNITION") when the igniters are switched "ON", which also results in a Master Caution "ding" that you acknowledge, but there is no continuous alarm as it is not an emergency situation, it's perfectly normal to have it on in precip. I don't think anyone is saying it would result in an alarm, just that it creates a sound in the aircraft's electrical systems that can be heard.
 
Ignore the red herring. Medicals do not make airplanes fly. Even if the pilot expires they don't. At that point, the medical becomes doubly irrelevant.
 
bflynn said:
Ignore the red herring. Medicals do not make airplanes fly. Even if the pilot expires they don't. At that point, the medical becomes doubly irrelevant.
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It could be a red herring or there could be a valid reason he didn't renew that ended up incapacitating him during this flight.
 
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