Cirrus killer?

JohnAJohnson said:
My hangar neighbor is building one (NA) and I am impressed with the roominess and ease of entry. Almost as easy to get into as my Cardinal. Looks like it will be a very nice flying machine when he finishes. He wants to hang one of the new IO-370s (180 hp) on it. What kind of cruise speed should he expect?
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Something less than 200 MPH
 
Daniel L said:
Jealousy isn't pretty.

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Keep reading, and get back to me on what an acre+ in the bay area with 2400sf plus a 24 x 48 work shop, plus a shooting range, runs ya.

Oh, and how much is that hangar?

(Don't worry, I'll wait 3 hours while you deal with rush hour traffic)
 
2.5 pages and no one mentions the Commander 114/115? Sure it doesn't quite have the Cirrus speed/chute, but probably the best cabin in the 4-place category, 2 doors, most have fairly modern panels, especially on the 114B/115 models. Can be had for considerably less than the Cirrus. Trailing link landing gear and cooler looking (in my opinion) than the Cirrus or Bo. Usefull loads above 1K lbs, so 4 full-size adults and baggage are doable with enough fuel to "go somewhere".

IMG_4263.jpg
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
You can’t post stuff like this without a pic, c’mon man...
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Fair enough! (Didn't get a pic of the ramp rat, though to be fair our prior DA-40 aged well outside, I thought).

It's a 2003 Avidyne-equipped bird which came in considerably less than 250, though the engine is "later-life". P+I are showing some age, but I've seen chartered G5's that look worse.

I'm not one for mixing identity politics for with such a purchase; for us, it just seemed like the best tool for the job. I would have been fine with a Bo as well, but one of our partners (really, his wife) was set on the chute and two doors. They (solidly Millenial, BTW), regularly put two carseats in back for trips with their two kids. Orders of magnitude better for this task than their previous Mooney. My wife was hesitant at first; we really liked our DA-40, but the partnership just didn't work.

The ergonomics of the "office" are a huge value-add that I didn't realize until I started flying this regularly. Everything falls to hand and makes sense (this analysis is an artifact of my professional life, BTW).

I'll let our other partner speak to his reasoning (should he choose) but his background was largely Cirrus before we formed this group.

IMG_5957.JPG IMG_0953.jpg
 
JohnAJohnson said:
My hangar neighbor is building one (NA) and I am impressed with the roominess and ease of entry. Almost as easy to get into as my Cardinal. Looks like it will be a very nice flying machine when he finishes. He wants to hang one of the new IO-370s (180 hp) on it. What kind of cruise speed should he expect?
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If he’s putting a 180hp in it, it’s not an TXL. He’s probably got an SE. If it’s an SE RG then he’ll see about 170 KTAS.
 
SoonerAviator said:
2.5 pages and no one mentions the Commander 114/115? Sure it doesn't quite have the Cirrus speed/chute, but probably the best cabin in the 4-place category, 2 doors, most have fairly modern panels, especially on the 114B/115 models. Can be had for considerably less than the Cirrus. Trailing link landing gear and cooler looking (in my opinion) than the Cirrus or Bo. Usefull loads above 1K lbs, so 4 full-size adults and baggage are doable with enough fuel to "go somewhere".

IMG_4263.jpg
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Too much airplane for me but she sure is purty!
 
Tantalum said:
I've yet to meet a Cirrus owner under 40.. which puts him and her squarely outside the millennial bracket, but it is fun to exploit disproved stereotypes.
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Angelina Jolie is 44, but she's owned an SR-22 for over a decade. Does that count?
 
PaulS said:
Does she still fly?
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I think she does. Her Cirrus is N805MX which is registered to Chivan Productions in Los Angeles as a co-ownership, and FlightAware shows it flew from Burbank to Camarillo on July 5, although there's no guarantee she was flying it. The FAA Airman database for Angelina Jolie shows a student pilot certificate issued 6/23/2004 and a third class medical issued 8/2006, so it's very stale. I wouldn't blame her if she didn't want her info available to the public.
 
Salty said:
What other plane can match up to or beat a used, sub $250k cirrus in all these areas?

1. Cruise speed
2. Ease of entry (2 doors)
3. Price
4. Useful load
5. Relatively modern avionics
6. Comfort (space and design)
7. 4 seats

A chute is extra credit. ;)

Cost of ownership is not on the list. I want to take that off the table.
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Sling TSI ???
https://www.airplanefactory.com/aircraft/sling-tsi/
 
Somedudeintn said:
Practically those seem pretty good, I just can’t stand the way their panels look.
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Interesting. It is odd. But in some ways there is a real organization to that panel in terms of what is where. Given the useful load, size and performance it probably is worth at least a flight in one for someone like yourself with the budget you have.


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Juliet Hotel said:
I used to admire the panels on the Socatas when I first started flying in the late 90's. Now I think it looks very dated.
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Panel design looks like they lifted it from an 80’s Camaro Berlinetta, lol. The design just hasn’t aged well, even if it is well thought-out.
 

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PaulS said:
Have you flown a Cirrus? If not I suggest caution, because you'll most likely get hooked.
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I fly them all the time. The best feature is the air conditioning. Many other makes and models I would own before a Cirrus. R182, 210, TTx, a bunch on Mooneys, Beech and Saratoga.
 
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Tommar98 said:
Surprised no one mentioned Socata. Widest cabin in GA: 2 doors, good performance and avionics. I don’t own one - just like everything I’ve read about them. Out of my price range

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc...T+TRINIDAD&listing_id=2359411&s-type=aircraft

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We did take a solid look at a Trinidad, but they're thirsty, and we wanted something more "standard" for if we have to re-market a share, and felt that maintenance would be easier given the wider market. We're surrounded by Bonanzas + Cirri.

Stan Cooper said:
Angelina Jolie is 44, but she's owned an SR-22 for over a decade. Does that count?
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Just for fun; I'm not yet 40, and one of our partners is solidly "middle-30's"; I believe that our other partner owned his first Cirrus pre-40. That said, it's hard to pin down ages here in terms of ownership; our airport is a great community and (I think) fairly young in GA terms. I don't know about the rest of the Cirrus ownership world, but the COPA magazine is 100% older owners and pilots.
 
Clip4 said:
R182, 210, TTx, a bunch on Mooneys, Beech and Saratoga
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So you enjoy some combination of being cramped and/or going slow, hodgepodge panels, poor interior ergonomics and/or heavy and slow to respond flight controls, and since you are a real pilot you don't need no stinkin' chute!


I kid I kid!!!!
 
scottfromboston said:
Just for fun; I'm not yet 40, and one of our partners is solidly "middle-30's"; I believe that our other partner owned his first Cirrus pre-40. That said, it's hard to pin down ages here in terms of ownership; our airport is a great community and (I think) fairly young in GA terms. I don't know about the rest of the Cirrus ownership world, but the COPA magazine is 100% older owners and pilots.
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I did a fair amount of Google-Sleuthing to get some analytics on the average age of aircraft owners, etc., and to look at difference in make and model but that data either doesn't exist, or is hard to get at. MYF has a ton of young people there, under 30 and under 40, but the owners I've talked to are all solidly "established" adults, save for one or two people I know.

To safely (financially) buy a plane when you are <30 and <40 shows a fairly impressive $$$, and unfortunately I think that's more and more out of reach for many people. The sad part is, I know several people with student loans somewhere in the $50K to $300K range.. that right there could buy you a house, several nice cars, a plane, etc., or some combination of that depending on what you like and where you live. Spend any time on Indeed and you'll soon realize that $70K to $150K is going to be your typical income range for many young-ish people
 
Agreed on all points. I drive a 10 year old Mazda up to the hangar, and go home to a condo.

My wife and I largely escaped the scourge of student debt (and are DINK's). We still couldn't (wouldn't?) own an airplane without partners.

Tantalum said:
I did a fair amount of Google-Sleuthing to get some analytics on the average age of aircraft owners, etc., and to look at difference in make and model but that data either doesn't exist, or is hard to get at. MYF has a ton of young people there, under 30 and under 40, but the owners I've talked to are all solidly "established" adults, save for one or two people I know.

To safely (financially) buy a plane when you are <30 and <40 shows a fairly impressive $$$, and unfortunately I think that's more and more out of reach for many people. The sad part is, I know several people with student loans somewhere in the $50K to $300K range.. that right there could buy you a house, several nice cars, a plane, etc., or some combination of that depending on what you like and where you live. Spend any time on Indeed and you'll soon realize that $70K to $150K is going to be your typical income range for many young-ish people
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PaulS said:
Nobody has said that.
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*Ahem*
Tantalum said:
as far as Cessna's, I will never understand why these planes are as prolific as they are, they encourage sloppy flying from students and pilots who haven't flown anything else and outside of a few roles (like flying heavy loads on unimproved strips) I really don't know what kind of appeal these planes have
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EdFred said:
And if you live in the middle of the country you can EASILY buy a house, 2 cars, an airplane, still go on vacation, and save for retirement every year with that money.
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Yeah, but then you've gotta live there. ;) Different strokes for different folks - I'd rather drive a beat up Civic in the mountains of Colorado than a Ferrari in Wichita.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Ahem
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I still feel like the 172 lets you get away with wayyy too much. It's like playing a game on easy mode. From one perspective that makes it a great trainer, from another though it gets people in trouble when they move up

I WILL say.. the 195 is a proper beast, I wish Cessna kept building planes like that, the thing just looks seriously badass and incredibly solid

Might possibly be the most beautiful single engine airplane..
 
Tantalum said:
I still feel like the 172 lets you get away with wayyy too much. It's like playing a game on easy mode. From one perspective that makes it a great trainer, from another though it gets people in trouble when they move up

I WILL say.. the 195 is a proper beast, I wish Cessna kept building planes like that, the thing just looks seriously badass and incredibly solid

Might possibly be the most beautiful single engine airplane..
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It's not a real plane unless it's constantly trying to kill you?
 
Tantalum said:
I still feel like the 172 lets you get away with wayyy too much. It's like playing a game on easy mode. From one perspective that makes it a great trainer, from another though it gets people in trouble when they move up

I WILL say.. the 195 is a proper beast, I wish Cessna kept building planes like that, the thing just looks seriously badass and incredibly solid

Might possibly be the most beautiful single engine airplane..
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Beech Staggerwing and Spartan Executive scoff in your general direction. ;)
 
Salty said:
It's not a real plane unless it's constantly trying to kill you?
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Not quite, and not to get too philosophical, but isn't that part of the romance of life? Isn't that why people go on hikes, push themselves physically and intellectually, like planes with blue knobs, don't just stick to the greens when skiing but hit the blues and blacks, take up surfing, mountain climbing, go for the girl that's just out of their league.. etc
 
Tantalum said:
Not quite, and not to get too philosophical, but isn't that part of the romance of life? Isn't that why people go on hikes, push themselves physically and intellectually, like planes with blue knobs, don't just stick to the greens when skiing but hit the blues and blacks, take up surfing, mountain climbing, go for the girl that's just out of their league.. etc
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Okay, then why do you preach Cirrus - a plane that does it's absolute best to make high performance flying as easy as possible? Surely a Bo or 210 has more levers, and is more of a challenge.
 
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