Cirrus and 3 small children

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Jmillski

Filing Flight Plan
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jmillski
Good morning everyone. I am finally getting the spouses approval to get back into aviation. She is sold on the ballistic parachute, which I understand. There is a generation one Cirrus locally with fractional ownership available. I have a very petite family and we would not come close to exceeding any payload capacity for many years. My issue is my youngest will be two years old next Christmas and could not be a lap passenger. They would easily fit in the back seats but I’m trying to figure out if there’s anyway do you have three small children in the back of the Cirrus. I know seatbelts have been, an issue of interpretation over the last several years and found a 2012 FAA article that was super vague and have copied some of it below, since I cannot yet paste a link. Do you think there’s any way to get a field approval for a third seat belt or other configuration in the back of a pre-2012 Cirrus? Thank you all so much, my son has been beside himself realizing that his dad is still a pilot and I can’t wait for him to get the bug, good to be back to the community


2007 the FAA released a letter of interpretation stating “two children can occupy one seat belt, provided their combined weight doesn't exceed 170 pounds.” BUT in 2012 changed this stating “that the use of a seat belt and/or seat by more than one occupant is appropriate only if: The seat belt is approved and rated for such use; the structural strength requirements for the seat are not exceeded; and the seat usage conforms with the limitations contained in the approved portion of the Airplane Flight Manual.”
 
A new SR22 is will be cheaper than the cost of raising 3 small children and sending them to college.
 
Sell one of the children to help pay for the Cirrus that you’ll now have room for.

(sorry, no help for the original question)


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If it were me I wouldn't put 2 kids under one seatbelt...I can't imagine it would work out well in the event if a sudden stop.

The early generation Cirri have only 2 seating positions in the rear; that was changed to 3 in later models but those may be out of your price range.
 
What are you going to do when 3 little kids become 3 big kids?
 
tsts4 said:
What are you going to do when 3 little kids become 3 big kids?
Click to expand...

well my plan would be to be in this over the next few years until financially ready to find a newer 3 seat SR22
 
Let's see. Issue a raincheck to one kid at a time on a rotational basis: Not good. Two kids, one belt. Nah. Kids will "age out" of that arrangement eventually.
As I see it, you have one good solution. Shop Cessna 195's on Trade-A-Plane.
 
Another option not mentioned, convince the spouse to get their pilot certs, and get 2 planes.
 
I would not be comfortable having small children alone in the back seat. They could accidentally or intentionally mess with their seatbelts during turbulence, get uncontrollably disruptive during flight, etc. I had two small kids in my 182. I basically didn't fly with both of them until the older one was 4, and was calm and respectful enough that I trusted him in the copilot's seat, so my wife could take care of the younger brother.

With three kids, I'd lean strongly towards a 6-seater with club seating in the back. Everyone will be much happier.
 
My three daughters (8, 8, and 6) fit in my '77 Arrow III Turbo. Plenty of room (for now) and the double buckling has never been an issue. They are all tiny so well under the weight limits. For headsets also got a splitter so 5 headsets not an issue despite only 4 built in hookups. The real issue with three littles in a plane is mostly how much of a disaster it becomes with inflight snacks, etc. And Lord help you when one of them downs a 32 oz thing of soda shortly after takeoff with the closest airport to land at when the inevitable emergency potty break needed 40 min away. :)
 
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Jeff Oslick said:
I would not be comfortable having small children alone in the back seat. They could accidentally or intentionally mess with their seatbelts during turbulence, get uncontrollably disruptive during flight, etc. I had two small kids in my 182. I basically didn't fly with both of them until the older one was 4, and was calm and respectful enough that I trusted him in the copilot's seat, so my wife could take care of the younger brother.

With three kids, I'd lean strongly towards a 6-seater with club seating in the back. Everyone will be much happier.
Click to expand...

LOL
 
Maxnr said:
Let's see. Issue a raincheck to one kid at a time on a rotational basis: Not good. Two kids, one belt. Nah. Kids will "age out" of that arrangement eventually.
As I see it, you have one good solution. Shop Cessna 195's on Trade-A-Plane.
Click to expand...
This is the way.
I have had a hard time getting three small kids getting along in a suburban!!! Might be able to- sure. Should you - probably not. I would thing small kids that close to each other will potentially be quite distracting to the pilot
 
5 non-lap-infant occupants in a bucket seat Arrow? Ruh roh. That's not a listed seat count in the PA-28R-201T TCDS, which never came with a bench back seat anyways. Your insurance might have a thing to say if you go down with 5 on board and survive.

That 2012 interpretation hinges on the form factor of the seat being accommodative of double bunking aka benches. Bucket seats are right out for double occupancy, regardless of combined weight. I'd probably be more comfortable pulling that stunt in a pre-66 Comanche 250 (forget the 180), which came with the bench, and has the power loading the arrow should have been sold with.
 
There is no issue with my insurance (funny enough, I asked before even buying the plane). And the FAA likewise seems to have no issue with this according to AOPA attorney Kathy Yodice: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2012/december/07/seatbelts-remember-the-rule-of-three

Relevant part "The FAA has also recognized an exception that allows two people to occupy one seat; according to the FAA, use of a seat belt and seat by more than one occupant is appropriate as long as the belt was approved and rated for such use, the structural strength requirements for the seats are not exceeded, and the seat usage conforms with the limitations of the airplane flight manual."

My girls are featherweights so no issue I can see. :)
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone! This is what I can’t rationalize from that FAA statement though:
“appropriate as long as the belt was approved and rated for such use”

so you have to prove the belt in your Piper is rated for 2 people?? But similar to you my kids would be in 2 car seats and a booster that are made for small cars, they would easily fit and I do not think it would impact safety
 
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