Circling approach to crossing runway…

kaiser

kaiser

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The pilot formerly known as Cool Beard Guy
-> And then poof… you need to go missed. Where do you go?

A scenario was presented to me as follows:
KMEM ILS/LOC 9 circle 18L
IMG_1092.jpeg
so you fly along 9 then right turn to 18L and poof… you lose the runway and need to go missed.

Absent other instructions from the tower, where do you go? I was trained to follow the ILS9 instructions. So I would turn to fly heading 093 [climb straight ahead to 1k] to intercept and follow the missed instructions. I was told this evening that is not the case and to expect some sort of straight ahead missed (I.e. southbound). Thoughts?
 
kaiser said:
Absent other instructions from the tower, where do you go? I was trained to follow the ILS9 instructions. So I would turn to fly heading 093 [climb straight ahead to 1k] to intercept and follow the missed instructions. I was told this evening that is not the case and to expect some sort of straight ahead missed (I.e. southbound). Thoughts?
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You were correct. The problem with what you were told this evening is that "some sort of straight ahead missed" is "other instructions from the tower."

Which is indeed the most likely thing to happen.

You and the person who "corrected" you had the proverbial "failure to communicate".
 
1.) Why would they give you that instead of an approach to 18L?
2.) In your given scenario, absent guidance from tower I’d follow the published ILS/LOC 9 missed.
 
You fly the published for the approach cleared… making the FIRST turn TOWARDS the airport to intercept the cleared published.

Basically keeping you in protected airspace kinda thing.

Better question is how do you miss on final? Left turn, not right.

You could be given what whomever told you, but that would only because they didn’t want you to do what you’re EXPECTED to do.
 
Per the AIM, you turn towards the landing runway while initiating the missed approach, and continue the turn until you're eastbound and can intercept the missed approach for runway 9.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I can only do the LOC-27 circle to 18R. :)

(If you’ve never been to Flight Safety, you won’t get the joke. :))
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Haha. My sim partner got that one, I got this one.
Tools said:
You fly the published for the approach cleared… making the FIRST turn TOWARDS the airport to intercept the cleared published.

Basically keeping you in protected airspace kinda thing.

Better question is how do you miss on final? Left turn, not right.

You could be given what whomever told you, but that would only because they didn’t want you to do what you’re EXPECTED to do.
Click to expand...
I wrote the scenario a bit poorly. *checks notes* We’ve just turned final for 18L then need to go missed. So theoretically still north or maybe right above runway 9, southbound. Totally agree turn towards the airport environment, but I’m in the environment, so I suppose don’t turn away by turning left 093, and just climb ahead to 5k to intercept MEM 151 radial. But then does it become problematic if you’re circling 18R?

midlifeflyer said:
You were correct. The problem with what you were told this evening is that "some sort of straight ahead missed" is "other instructions from the tower."

Which is indeed the most likely thing to happen.

You and the person who "corrected" you had the proverbial "failure to communicate".
Click to expand...
I suppose my biggest reason for pushing back is because the other pilot (who said tower will just give me something) implied (or I assumed) no reason to brief the ILS9 missed because of that fact. That goes against my philosophy when flying, but still made me second guess how I think about circle to land.
 
kaiser said:
Haha. My sim partner got that one, I got this one.

I wrote the scenario a bit poorly. *checks notes* We’ve just turned final for 18L then need to go missed. So theoretically still north or maybe right above runway 9, southbound. Totally agree turn towards the airport environment, but I’m in the environment, so I suppose don’t turn away by turning left 093, and just climb ahead to 5k to intercept MEM 151 radial. But then does it become problematic if you’re circling 18R?


I suppose my biggest reason for pushing back is because the other pilot (who said tower will just give me something) implied (or I assumed) no reason to brief the ILS9 missed because of that fact. That goes against my philosophy when flying, but still made me second guess how I think about circle to land.
Click to expand...

Don't know the right answer, but if I'm heading southbound on final for 18L I'm going to do a climbing right turn over the airport to intercept ILS9 missed approach and wouldn't immediately turn left to 093.

As for briefing ILS9 missed approach, I'd still brief it. Even though in the real-world chances are you aren't going to fly the published missed, you might so in my mind it's a bad habit to start doing things based upon assumption and not following standardized procedures like briefing the miss before starting the approach.
 
kaiser said:
I wrote the scenario a bit poorly. *checks notes* We’ve just turned final for 18L then need to go missed. So theoretically still north or maybe right above runway 9, southbound. Totally agree turn towards the airport environment, but I’m in the environment, so I suppose don’t turn away by turning left 093, and just climb ahead to 5k to intercept MEM 151 radial. But then does it become problematic if you’re circling 18R?
Click to expand...
you don’t know that the protected airspace includes “just climbing straight ahead“ to intercept the MEM151 radial…well, yes, It’s pretty obvious at Memphis, but not everywhere.
kaiser said:
I suppose my biggest reason for pushing back is because the other pilot (who said tower will just give me something) implied (or I assumed) no reason to brief the ILS9 missed because of that fact. That goes against my philosophy when flying, but still made me second guess how I think about circle to land.
Click to expand...
If you ever circle at Memphis, I’m sure you’d get alternate missed approach instructions, but the object isn’t to train you to circle only at Memphis.
 
kaiser said:
I suppose my biggest reason for pushing back is because the other pilot (who said tower will just give me something) implied (or I assumed) no reason to brief the ILS9 missed because of that fact. That goes against my philosophy when flying, but still made me second guess how I think about circle to land.
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You may have assumed or inferred more than they meant.

The reality is that it's rare to do the published missed at a towered airport for a whole bunch of reasons and you will usually get an ATC-directed missed*. For that matter so's a circling approach. But it does happen and a good approach briefing will include it.

*ATC-directed missed - I try to avoid the term "alternate missed approach" because, as you can see from the chart, that's a real term with a specific meaning.
1706733718153.png
 
kaiser said:
-> And then poof… you need to go missed. Where do you go?

A scenario was presented to me as follows:
KMEM ILS/LOC 9 circle 18L
View attachment 124929
so you fly along 9 then right turn to 18L and poof… you lose the runway and need to go missed.

Absent other instructions from the tower, where do you go? I was trained to follow the ILS9 instructions. So I would turn to fly heading 093 [climb straight ahead to 1k] to intercept and follow the missed instructions. I was told this evening that is not the case and to expect some sort of straight ahead missed (I.e. southbound). Thoughts?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by “…fly along 9…” That sounds like you’re going to do a low approach then a 270 to final. But that would be left turns, not “…then right turn to 18L…” Where exactly are you when you lose the airport? What is your heading at that time? Altitude? How long will it take you to climb to 1000? As far as “…expect some sort of straight ahead missed…” goes, when you miss you may get vectored, but, until then you must execute the Missed Approach Procedure. The rule is make the initial turn towards the airport then join the Missed Approach Procedure. The questions I asked must be answered before your question, “…where do you go…” can be.
 
luvflyin said:
Where exactly are you when you lose the airport? What is your heading at that time? Altitude? How long will it take you to climb to 1000? As far as “…expect some sort of straight ahead missed…” goes, when you miss you may get vectored, but, until then you must execute the Missed Approach Procedure. The rule is make the initial turn towards the airport then join the Missed Approach Procedure. The questions I asked must be answered before your question, “…where do you go…” can be.
Click to expand...
This, except the "rule" isn't "towards the airport", it's towards the landing runway. So, if you are above the specified 1,000 ft you could simply head southeast across the landing runway to join the radial. Imo. See par 5-4-21.c.

 
Going through previous posts, as I'm busy procrastinating trying to avoid real work, and came across this one.

I feel like I should mention one other major factor in this scenario, as no one else specifically mentioned it (even though I'm sure others have probably noticed, too).

This is a classic type of sim exercise -obviously not a common situation in real life, but it *could* happen, and the goal in the sim is to present situations that may illustrate certain points, and provide food for thought.

In this scenario, the go-around procedure is defined by the four tall towers south, southeast, and east of Runway 18L. They are the reason for the 09 missed approach procedure calling for a climb to 1000' prior to commencing any turns. If you were to begin a missed approach during a circle-to-land on 18L, you're probably already pointed straight towards one or more tall towers, which you may or may not be able to outclimb. So, this scenario was probably demonstrated to show a situation where it's very important in exactly HOW you transition to the missed approach.

That's why, as a couple of others have also mentioned, a right circling turn towards 09 to intercept and join the published missed approach is the correct response for this scenario. DO NOT turn left, or climb straight ahead to the south to join the published missed approach. If anything, this is a good illustration of why it IS important to brief the missed approach, including important obstacles.
 
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