Checkride without installed VOR/GPS

[Pedals2Paddles]

Lets say the only means of radio navigation in the aircraft is one of the following:
- Yoke mount Garmin 196
- Airgizmo panel Garmin 196
- Tablet based EFB GPS (Forflight/Garmin/etc)

What are the implications for a PPL checkride? Does anyone have actual experience with this as a CFI or student where this either was acceptable or not acceptable?

 

[James331]

Lets say the only means of radio navigation in the aircraft is one of the following:
- Yoke mount Garmin 196
- Airgizmo panel Garmin 196
- Tablet based EFB GPS (Forflight/Garmin/etc)

What are the implications for a PPL checkride? Does anyone have actual experience with this as a CFI or student where this either was acceptable or not acceptable?

Yep, that how's our Grumman AA1A was rigged for a while.

Just used a handheld, worked fine.

There is also a FAA FAQ document on it somewhere.

 

[poadeleted20]

No personal experience, but second-hand knowledge. Just make sure you contact the DPE ahead of time so you don't have to stop in the middle of the practical test to call the FSDO and get them to explain the rules to the DPE -- especially if the ride isn't happening when the FSDO is open 8-4 M-F.

 

[Old Geek]

I did my PP checkride with a portable GPS and no VOR. Just make sure that you know how to enter a VOR station as a waypoint, intercept a given radial and track it. The examiner will want to know that you can follow ATC instructions referenced to the VOR system.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Would they only accept a bonafied aviation GPS (like a 196)? Or would a a tablet on the kneeboard satisfy the requirements?

 

[poadeleted20]

Would they only accept a bonafied aviation GPS (like a 196)? Or would a a tablet on the kneeboard satisfy the requirements?

If the tablet has means to:

3. Locates the airplane’s position using the navigation system.​

4. Intercepts and tracks a given course, radial, or bearing, as​

appropriate.​

5. Recognizes and describes the indication of station​

passage, if appropriate.​

6. Recognizes signal loss and takes appropriate action.

...then I don't see why not. But at the end of the day, it's going to be the DPE's call (subject to further review by the FSDO), so ask far enough in advance that you can shift to a more acceptable plan/device in time to practice it before the ride if the answer is "no".

 

[warthog1984]

Would they only accept a bonafied aviation GPS (like a 196)? Or would a a tablet on the kneeboard satisfy the requirements?

You don't need any radios at all to get a PPL, but using a portable GPS with VOR waypoints for the NAV portion should be enough.

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Understood. Makes sense, thanks.

 

[frfly172]

Am I mistaken,I thought a portable gps was not to be used for primary navigation. A portable is only good for spatial awareness..

 

[Pedals2Paddles]

Ron, what you're saying is only regarding IFR.

 

[poadeleted20]

You don't need any radios at all to get a PPL,

The PTS says otherwise. See Area III, Task A.

3. Transmits using AIM specified phraseology and​

procedures.​

4. Acknowledges radio communications and complies with​

instructions.

Can't do that without a radio. There's also the need for an electronic navigation system such as VOR or GPS to do Area VII, Task B:

2. Demonstrates the ability to use an airborne electronic​

navigation system.​

3. Locates the airplane’s position using the navigation system.​

4. Intercepts and tracks a given course, radial, or bearing, as​

appropriate.​

5. Recognizes and describes the indication of station​

passage, if appropriate.​

6. Recognizes signal loss and takes appropriate action.

...although I don't know of you consider a GPS to be a "radio".

However, the FAA does not prohibit the use of a portable device for these tasks on a PP practical test. Note that the prohibition on the use of portable devices for IFR operations does not apply to a straight PP-Airplane practical test (but would apply to a combined PP/IR test).

 

[warthog1984]

The PTS says otherwise. See Area III, Task A.
Can't do that without a radio. There's also the need for an electronic navigation system such as VOR or GPS to do Area VII, Task B:
...although I don't know of you consider a GPS to be a "radio".

Nope, you're wrong. Since a plane can be VFR worthy without radios, it is not required. However, there would be a restriction on the certificate to the effect of "no electrical system" or "not >50NM".

Otherwise, how would anybody have gotten a license in a Cub?

 

[poadeleted20]

Nope, you're wrong. Since a plane can be VFR worthy without radios, it is not required.

The fact that 91.205(b) allows VFR flight does not mean that the 91.205(b) minimum equipment is sufficient for a PP-Airplane practical test. See 14 CFR 61.45:

(b) Required equipment (other than controls).
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(2) of this section, an aircraft used for a practical test must have--
(i) The equipment for each area of operation required for the practical test;

However, there would be a restriction on the certificate to the effect of "no electrical system" or "not >50NM".

You should read FAA Orders 8900.1/8900.2 and the PTS. That is not an option. There are some restrictions which are permitted, such as limiting to Ercoupe 415's if you take the ride in a no-rudder-pedal 'Coupe, but this isn't one of the allowed restrictions.

Otherwise, how would anybody have gotten a license in a Cub?

The requirements were different back when Cubs were the most popular trainers. Today, to get your PP in an aircraft with no electrical system, you must carry a handheld comm radio and electronic nav device in the plane so you can perform the two Tasks I listed above.

 

[nosehair]

Otherwise, how would anybody have gotten a license in a Cub?

They haven't, not without a radio, since the late '50s. HELLO